Alienated Grandparents

[Amethyst]

Three of my grandparents died years before my parents even met. We cherished our remaining grandmother. She had lots of grandkids and little money, so gifts were minimal; but her kindness (though she could be stern) was legendary.

And we knew our Mom loved her own Mom dearly. That is very important. Children sense, and fear, tension between their parents and any other adult.

This thread just saddens me. My child (now 17) lost all of the grand parents (due to death ) by age 8. The time a child can spend with a grand parent goes quickly.

 

[target2019]

Thanks to all responders. Son is having one on one meeting with professional counselor wife and I met with. Counselor agreed to be a mediator for next meeting with son and daughter in law.

That's a good outcome at this stage. I wish you well as this follows course, and hopefully all can adjust as necessary.

It sounds like grandparents have been blind-sided, and there are issues that all have to address. Be prepared, as it sounds like D-I-L has problems that are not understood by all.

Me, I wouldn't give two about a new bike. But this has become a key issue. Frankly, I wasn't aware that first bike was a thing. The reaction suggests the D-I-L feels inferior. I'd like to think that if we faced a similar situation, we'd apologize many times in person.

 

[Maenad]

I've seen this type of dynamic from both sides, where I was a confidant of the parents in some situations and the grandparents in others. If I were the OP I'd be careful of the communities for Alienated Grandparents, they can become a feedback loop of victimhood, even when the grandparents are actually at fault. I knew a grandparent who was honestly thinking about taking some kind of legal action to get access to grandchildren, which is an absolutely sure way to destroy the relationship between the grandparents and parents.

It's very good to meet with a mediator, a neutral third party can help people see each other's POV. You're likely to hear some unexpected and unwelcome things, but it's good to get that out in the open and deal with it. The mediator can help develop a path forward for a new relationship, and the fact that your DIL has agreed to this is a good sign.

Coming from an adult child's viewpoint, I beg the OP to look deep inside themselves and dig out any "I'm the parent here" mentality. Once your kids are adults that attitude of entitlement is poison to your relationship with them. Keep your eyes on the end goal - what kind of relationship do you want to have with your son, DIL, and grandkids? What would you have to do in order to get that? Is that kind of relationship possible with whatever your son and DIL are willing to do? If you can't get there from here, what are you willing/able to do, and where will that get you?

You may not get what you want, but can both sides reach a place where you'll be "happy enough"? Can you accept that? If not, you'll be back at this place in a few years.

 

[Markola]

I've seen this type of dynamic from both sides, where I was a confidant of the parents in some situations and the grandparents in others. If I were the OP I'd be careful of the communities for Alienated Grandparents, they can become a feedback loop of victimhood, even when the grandparents are actually at fault. I knew a grandparent who was honestly thinking about taking some kind of legal action to get access to grandchildren, which is an absolutely sure way to destroy the relationship between the grandparents and parents.



It's very good to meet with a mediator, a neutral third party can help people see each other's POV. You're likely to hear some unexpected and unwelcome things, but it's good to get that out in the open and deal with it. The mediator can help develop a path forward for a new relationship, and the fact that your DIL has agreed to this is a good sign.



Coming from an adult child's viewpoint, I beg the OP to look deep inside themselves and dig out any "I'm the parent here" mentality. Once your kids are adults that attitude of entitlement is poison to your relationship with them. Keep your eyes on the end goal - what kind of relationship do you want to have with your son, DIL, and grandkids? What would you have to do in order to get that? Is that kind of relationship possible with whatever your son and DIL are willing to do? If you can't get there from here, what are you willing/able to do, and where will that get you?



You may not get what you want, but can both sides reach a place where you'll be "happy enough"? Can you accept that? If not, you'll be back at this place in a few years.

Brilliant.

 

[Bestwifeever]

A. Have you never watched Everyone Loves Raymond?

B. I treat my DIL with kid gloves, never say something to or about her that could be taken negatively, and always ask and defer to her about gifts, especially big ones like bikes. I have a daughter too who thinks I’m nuts for this, but for me I feel like if DIL and I ever had a falling out, it wouldn't be as easily repaired or gotten over as one between DD and me. I never want DS to be in the middle of that (and I would hope he would take her side no matter what). I hope you get this resolved because children need love from everyone, and I hope you can see her side, whatever it is, and let your resentment go. Do it for your son.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I'd have been thrilled if DW's parents gave our children a bike at age 6. They haven't given either of our two children (their only grandchildren) as much as a birthday or Christmas card in years, haven't called either. Our kids still go visit them and keep in touch, but its a one way street.

Your DIL should be happy.

 

[Spock]

I haven't read all the posts, but the theme from the first 10 or so needs to stop.
You are hearing one side of the story. Just because DIL does not get along with her in-laws does not mean her marriage is on the rocks or that she needs mental help.

My parents completely alienated my wife while we were still dating because they didn't approve of her. They made my wife feel as welcome as "dog s__t on white carpet" (her exact words). The wounds are still very much there. We'll celebrate our 34th anniversary this weekend.
And its not just me. My brother and his wife have had many explosions with my parents interfering with raising his kids. Now that dad is sliding down the dementia curve it would be extremely bad if dad wasn't 1500 miles away from my brothers kids.



Yes... the OPs son is preventing access to the grandkids just as much as the DIL. But as I sternly pointed out to my parents: "do not make me chose between you and my wife, you won't like the result".

If there wasn't a fair to good relationship before moving into the neighborhood, its not going to magically get better just because you moved nearby... if anything it will amplify any existing negatives which it sounds like is occurring.

 

[ivinsfan]

I've seen this type of dynamic from both sides, where I was a confidant of the parents in some situations and the grandparents in others. If I were the OP I'd be careful of the communities for Alienated Grandparents, they can become a feedback loop of victimhood, even when the grandparents are actually at fault. I knew a grandparent who was honestly thinking about taking some kind of legal action to get access to grandchildren, which is an absolutely sure way to destroy the relationship between the grandparents and parents.

It's very good to meet with a mediator, a neutral third party can help people see each other's POV. You're likely to hear some unexpected and unwelcome things, but it's good to get that out in the open and deal with it. The mediator can help develop a path forward for a new relationship, and the fact that your DIL has agreed to this is a good sign.

Coming from an adult child's viewpoint, I beg the OP to look deep inside themselves and dig out any "I'm the parent here" mentality. Once your kids are adults that attitude of entitlement is poison to your relationship with them. Keep your eyes on the end goal - what kind of relationship do you want to have with your son, DIL, and grandkids? What would you have to do in order to get that? Is that kind of relationship possible with whatever your son and DIL are willing to do? If you can't get there from here, what are you willing/able to do, and where will that get you?

You may not get what you want, but can both sides reach a place where you'll be "happy enough"? Can you accept that? If not, you'll be back at this place in a few years.

Great post and the sad fact is there might be absolutely nothing the OP can do to make this better.

Frankly there could be a mental health issue on both sides. Maybe the GP don't realize or can't realize that their behavior is unacceptable and can't/won't manage change. Is it possible the son asked them to move closer because there was already some stress in the household?

Perhaps the DIL is struggling with mental health issues and has made the GP the source of her rage and stress. It happens...depression and anxiety coupled together can lead to feelings of rage and this type of bullying behavior.

The husband/son might be stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have an acquaintance who has 2 grandkids living 10 miles away that she hasn't seen in almost 10 years. I know enough about the family from other sources to know the DIL has mental health problems and has turned a perfectly normal pair of grandparents into the devil personified.

Good luck going forward OP

 

[ivinsfan]

I haven't read all the posts, but the theme from the first 10 or so needs to stop.
You are hearing one side of the story. Just because DIL does not get along with her in-laws does not mean her marriage is on the rocks or that she needs mental help.

My parents completely alienated my wife while we were still dating because they didn't approve of her. They made my wife feel as welcome as "dog s__t on white carpet" (her exact words). The wounds are still very much there. We'll celebrate our 34th anniversary this weekend.
And its not just me. My brother and his wife have had many explosions with my parents interfering with raising his kids. Now that dad is sliding down the dementia curve it would be extremely bad if dad wasn't 1500 miles away from my brothers kids.



Yes... the OPs son is preventing access to the grandkids just as much as the DIL. But as I sternly pointed out to my parents: "do not make me chose between you and my wife, you won't like the result".

If there wasn't a fair to good relationship before moving into the neighborhood, its not going to magically get better just because you moved nearby... if anything it will amplify any existing negatives which it sounds like is occurring.

Good points, yet the OP clearly stated that their son asked them to relocate to be close to the son's family. This puts a little different light on the situation. Every family is different. Kudos to this family for trying counseling.

You make your parents sound like tools, but as you say there are always two side to every story. I'm sorry you felt put in the position where you had choose family or spouse, that must suck. Even though you chose DW and have a longstanding marriage it's very apparent this still stings a lot. As for counseling when four adults are so stuck in a p@@ing contest that the children become the pawns of power, someone needs some counseling.

 

[Amethyst]

Only a small handful of posts jumped to these drastic conclusions. Most are saying that all adults involved are responsible in some way for the falling-out; until they all figure out how to get along, the kids will remain off limits.

In my world, anybody who makes an issue over a gift, unless it's god-awful inappropriate/illegal/dangerous/scary, is usually a PITA in other ways. But I am not there and this is not my world we're talking about.

OP is getting counseling, so maybe the professionals will have some ideas.

I haven't read all the posts, but the theme from the first 10 or so needs to stop.
You are hearing one side of the story. Just because DIL does not get along with her in-laws does not mean her marriage is on the rocks or that she needs mental help.
.

 

[MRG]

I've seen this type of dynamic from both sides, where I was a confidant of the parents in some situations and the grandparents in others. If I were the OP I'd be careful of the communities for Alienated Grandparents, they can become a feedback loop of victimhood, even when the grandparents are actually at fault. I knew a grandparent who was honestly thinking about taking some kind of legal action to get access to grandchildren, which is an absolutely sure way to destroy the relationship between the grandparents and parents.

It's very good to meet with a mediator, a neutral third party can help people see each other's POV. You're likely to hear some unexpected and unwelcome things, but it's good to get that out in the open and deal with it. The mediator can help develop a path forward for a new relationship, and the fact that your DIL has agreed to this is a good sign.

Coming from an adult child's viewpoint, I beg the OP to look deep inside themselves and dig out any "I'm the parent here" mentality. Once your kids are adults that attitude of entitlement is poison to your relationship with them. Keep your eyes on the end goal - what kind of relationship do you want to have with your son, DIL, and grandkids? What would you have to do in order to get that? Is that kind of relationship possible with whatever your son and DIL are willing to do? If you can't get there from here, what are you willing/able to do, and where will that get you?

You may not get what you want, but can both sides reach a place where you'll be "happy enough"? Can you accept that? If not, you'll be back at this place in a few years.

+1000

Cutoffs are never good and normally indicate other issues than the "red button issue" that's the faux issue. I'd suggest any type of family counseling for any family members willing to attend.

We never had children, but I'll guarantee my DF would have created an issue that would have resulted in a cutoff. Part of our decision to not have children was based upon DF's controlling, manipulative ways.

It's hard to describe how a well meaning person could be so destructive without meaning to. He only "tried to do the right things and help". To try an give a clue of his controlling ways, my FIL was a diagnosed, untreated, bipolar person, he was a little kitten compared to DF.

Beat wishes for a resolution.

 

[38Chevy454]

Lot of good responses here. Hope you can work it out with your son and DIL. I agree there are worse problems with son and DIL they need to work out, the bicycle is just what tipped over the edge. DIL has major issues holding grudge for 14 years, she needs the counseling help for sure.

I think DIL has the problem, not OP. But as the saying goes "You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family".

 

[CoolRich59]

Lot of good advice and insights here. I agree that the DIL seems to have bigger issues that are affecting her relationship with her husband and in-laws.

My only suggestion would be clearing significant presents with the parents ahead of time. My grandson just turned six. My son and DIL gave a thumbs down to my idea of getting him a pony, but were OK with a LEGO set.

 

[gwraigty]

I haven't read all the posts, but the theme from the first 10 or so needs to stop.
You are hearing one side of the story. Just because DIL does not get along with her in-laws does not mean her marriage is on the rocks or that she needs mental help.

My parents completely alienated my wife while we were still dating because they didn't approve of her. They made my wife feel as welcome as "dog s__t on white carpet" (her exact words). The wounds are still very much there. We'll celebrate our 34th anniversary this weekend.
And its not just me. My brother and his wife have had many explosions with my parents interfering with raising his kids. Now that dad is sliding down the dementia curve it would be extremely bad if dad wasn't 1500 miles away from my brothers kids.



Yes... the OPs son is preventing access to the grandkids just as much as the DIL. But as I sternly pointed out to my parents: "do not make me chose between you and my wife, you won't like the result".

If there wasn't a fair to good relationship before moving into the neighborhood, its not going to magically get better just because you moved nearby... if anything it will amplify any existing negatives which it sounds like is occurring.

+1000 and thank you!

I have a contentious relationship with my in-laws, as do a couple of other of their DILs that I know of. I'll spare the details. I have no doubt that - to others - I would be presented as the one totally at fault, while they are innocent.

There is not nearly enough in the OP for the conclusions that some have jumped to. There is another side to the story that we're not hearing.

 

[ponyboy]

Sounds like your son needs to man up. Your DIL is running that roost. But, like others said...their relationship is probably in the tubes. Unless we're not hearing the entire story and there has been over a decade of built up tension between the in laws and DIL.

Reach out to your son and try talking to him alone. Maybe even tell him to keep his mouth shut about the conversations your having. If not, the DIL will probably go ape.

 

[Chuckanut]

Both my grandfathers died before I was born. I wish I had known them. I did know my grandmothers and that was wonderful.

I maintain an excellent relationship with my grand-kids and their parents. I see no reason to alienate any of them. And I certainly see no reason to run their lives.

My ex is in another situation. While her relationship with our children and grand-kids is OK, it is not close. I'm almost certain she does not understand why. But it is obvious to my children and to me. She is to critical, and other things always seem to be more important and get in way of spending time with them. When her daughter needs help, she is usually involved with some community project or church acitiviy and doesn't have the time. At other times she is traveling, or she promised something to a friend. You get the picture.

Me? I'm having breakfast with a grand as I write this.

Note: I am not equating the OP to my ex. I know nothing about them. I'm just pointing out that people can sabotage their relationships and never realize it.

 

[ivinsfan]

Both my grandfathers died before I was born. I wish I had known them. I did know my grandmothers and that was wonderful.

I maintain an excellent relationship with my grand-kids and their parents. I see no reason to alienate any of them. And I certainly see no reason to run their lives.

My ex is in another situation. While her relationship with our children and grand-kids is OK, it is not close. I'm almost certain she does not understand why. But it is obvious to my children and to me. She is to critical, and other things always seem to be more important and get in way of spending time with them. When her daughter needs help, she is usually involved with some community project or church acitiviy and doesn't have the time. At other times she is traveling, or she promised something to a friend. You get the picture.

Me? I'm having breakfast with a grand as I write this.

Note: I am not equating the OP to my ex. I know nothing about them. I'm just pointing out that people can sabotage their relationships and never realize it.

So in defense of GM if she is so critical why do they ask her to help out? And it's OK for a GP to have a fully scheduled independent life in retirement. See sometimes if you are a grandparent you can't win. You either interfere, buy unwanted gifts or such or you won't clear you schedule at the drop of a hat. It's a minefield. In fact I have two DD with young GK and have a completely different approach to both of them. So far it's all good.

 

[ivinsfan]

Sounds like your son needs to man up. Your DIL is running that roost. But, like others said...their relationship is probably in the tubes. Unless we're not hearing the entire story and there has been over a decade of built up tension between the in laws and DIL.

Reach out to your son and try talking to him alone. Maybe even tell him to keep his mouth shut about the conversations your having. If not, the DIL will probably go ape.

It's not that easy..if his spouse is struggling it's his job to there for the kids and try to support the spouse. In fact the idea that their son is open to counseling is a huge positive in his favor.

 

[Sue J]

To the OP, I hope you can get this worked out to a degree that you can have an ongoing relationship with your grandchildren.

My sister is estranged from her older son (39). He is married and has two children. She has never met his wife or the kids. She was excluded from his wedding and not even mentioned in the engagement or wedding announcements. These are her only grandchildren. Her husband has many grandchildren and she is treated like a grandmother but they all live far away and they aren't "hers."

This is such a painful thing in her life. The rest of her life is wonderful and this is just always a sadness in the background.

DH and I have one grandson and our son and DIL bought a house 1 mile away and we see them all the time. The baby will be 1 year old in November. Last year for the holidays I asked my son and DIL what they would like me to do for a gift. Do they want me to buy stuff I think they would need or like? Did they have something in mind that the baby needed in terms of clothes or equipment? Or did they want the cash to pick out something for him?

The answer was that they would like money toward his passport and visa expenses because they were planning to take him to China to meet DIL's family. They all went to China and DIL and the baby stayed for almost 3 months while our son just stayed a few weeks. I loved that idea and doubled what I would have given them for toys or clothes.

His first birthday is coming up and I will continue to do the same thing, asking the parents what to get for him.

Thinking back to when my kids were little, DHs father wanted to buy our 5 year old son a kids drum set!! Actually it was a great idea, but only because he asked first. We picked it out and grandpa paid for it. That was a memorable gift. It was later replaced with a real drum set and our son turned out to be a very good drummer.

 

[DAYDREAMER]

Was at a wedding where the future DIL will no doubt harbor bad thoughts about MIL for a very long time, and very justifiably so. The MIL no doubt will be oblivious to how she dramatically impacted the wedding, and will act like a victim in the future when future blow ups happen. (I can't explain what she did, just in case they are on this forum)

So, the way I see this situation as an Internet Armchair quarterback, we need to hear both sides of the story before any judgement can be made.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My brother married a woman with mental health problems. Shortly after they got married she was on a mission to get rid of our side of the family. If you were in a room alone with her when she got home she would make up lies about what was said to her. Eventually we never saw them or the kids. My brother divorced her when the last one was 18. By then my dad was dead. He became closer to my mom and told his GF that if she couldn’t get along with my mom it was a deal breaker. My mom was easy going so never a problem. I never forgave him for how he treated my parents.

 

[ivinsfan]

Was at a wedding where the future DIL will no doubt harbor bad thoughts about MIL for a very long time, and very justifiably so. The MIL no doubt will be oblivious to how she dramatically impacted the wedding, and will act like a victim in the future when future blow ups happen. (I can't explain what she did, just in case they are on this forum)

So, the way I see this situation as an Internet Armchair quarterback, we need to hear both sides of the story before any judgement can be made.

We don't have to make a judgement, we aren't judges. And in fact anyone can have a blind spot. Anyone can have a bad day or a bad week or even a bad year. If we'd just realize we are all people and not a one of us is perfect, there would be a lot more Zen in the world.

On the morning of my DS's wedding my Mom told her it's OK if you don't want to go through with this, Mom had more then a few issues about my future BIL. They married and then divorced after 10 plus years.
My BIL loved my Mom like no other, Mom died of cancer before they divorced and BIL was there for every minute unlike my own brother who checked out because it was too hard for him. I saw wonderful things in my BIL, but ultimately he wasn't a good husband. I still love him for the way he treated my Mother when she was dying. My Mom treated him like her own child after the marriage and he responded lovingly.

 

[SheitlQueen]

Sounds like DIL has mental problems.

I suspect this. I had a friend who cut anyone off that she thought had offended her or wronged her in some way. No matter how petty, she would never forgive or forget. I also got dumped by her for some offense, but I heard she had a personality disorder that caused her to behave that way. Maybe your DIL has the same.

 

[NW-Bound]

My brother married a woman with mental health problems. Shortly after they got married she was on a mission to get rid of our side of the family...

My wife had a cousin who totally rejected his family after getting married, including his mother. I heard that was all because of his wife, although she never met his family. Not one member. Not a single time. My wife was very close to his sisters, hence knew the story. They did not even get to see the wife, nor talk to her once to even get a chance to offend her on anything.

What we could not understand is how even though his wife was so bad, the cousin could reject his mother and siblings, to the point they tried to contact him several times, and he would not even come to see his mother before she died of cancer. And they all live in the LA area. And from the sisters, we learned that everything was normal up until he met this woman and got married.

How could someone be so cold-hearted? And I understand that he's a healthcare professional, if not an MD then a PA. I wonder how he treats his patients.

 

[FrankiesGirl]

For those here that have decided that the OP is an innocent victim here and their DIL is a horrible selfish shrew that has "turned their son against them" or their marriage is doomed... you don't know the whole story. We never will.

You don't know what the OP did actually. The fact that the OP states that all they did was buy a bike for their granddaughter... still lends itself to the likely scenario that they stole a first from their DIL that may have been one of many oversteps they've made since the DIL/son first married.

Simple thing would have been to ask "can we buy granddaughter a bike?" and accepted a no if she had plans for her daughter already. But if they didn't ask permission, then they overstepped.

The OP may be completely innocent. But you and I don't know that. They should seek counseling and mediation if they hope to patch up their relationship with their extended family and do some serious soul-searching if they had ANY chance of causing some of this rift. But treating their DIL as if she is the main/only cause and a horrible person is a guarantee that they'll never have a close - or possibly any - relationship with their grandchildren or son.