Do we really want to get old?

[Bamaman]

What was experienced in posting #1 is more of a reason to get started on life (after work) as soon as physically and fiscally possible.

We only have one time in this life, and it's time to grab all the gusto as soon as possible.

 

[kgtest]

Survival...and hope. Without hope, there is not much.

 

[COcheesehead]

Not all do.

My sister in law is always happy, even though she doesn't remember anyone.

She might be early in the process.

Behavioral Symptoms Associated With Dementia
In addition to the cognitive symptoms, most people with dementia exhibit what are called neuropsychiatric or neurobehavioral syndromes, more commonly known as behavioral and psychological symptoms. These symptoms can have a range of manifestations such as depression, anxiety, irritability, apathy, agitation or aggression, pacing, sleep disturbances, hallucinations, paranoia, and delusions.

 

[joeea]

She might be early in the process.

Not early at all. Everyone is different.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I think there are a range of things and some of what we think of as grim and depressing when we are younger isn't seen that way by those at that stage.

Not everyone ends up in long term memory care. In fact, the vast majority of people don't. Yes, that possibility is scary to me. But the likelihood is that it doesn't happen. All I can really do is try to lead a healthy life now in the hope that maybe it makes a difference.

My mom died last year at 94. In early March of last year she was living on her own, still driving and mentally competent. Yes, she was a little forgetful but not awful. She was living her life the way she wanted to. She had some serious chronic health conditions, but really they didn't affect her life that much. Yes, she was much more unsteady on her feet than she had been in her 70s and she didn't have as much energy and she didn't really like to go out that much. But, honestly, she was pretty content with her life. She wasn't miserable at all.

And, then her chronic health conditions caught up with her. She ended in the hospital and it was downhill for 2 1/2 months and then she died. But, honestly, it wasn't a bad way to go. She lived independently doing what she wanted until the age of 94. She was mentally competent and was never close to needing memory care. The last couple of months were tough. But I am sure if you had asked her if she would rather have avoided those two months and died 10 years sooner suddenly -- she would have chosen what happened.

I do think many people underestimate some of the physical challenges of getting older and some of the impact of chronic illness. But, for many, if they are mentally competent they would rather have those challenges than not be alive at all....

I recall that you were going though that turbulent time about the same time I was dealing with my Dad's "life journey." My Dad's demise was similar. Most of his almost 90 years were without many medical complications. He had COPD and was in stage IV for more than a year, but was really doing well, considering. It was only the last 6 months when things started going down hill and it progressed fairly quick. The last two months were painful to watch but he was still living alone in his home and tending to most of his needs until the last few weeks. He was admitted into hospice (at home) on May 24th and I moved in on Jun 5th. He passed a little more than 2 weeks later. Yes, the last month was tough, but he accepted it with grace and passed quite peacefully...at home. Nonetheless, I am under NO illusion that I will be "as lucky."

Oh yes, and I have often heard the adage "getting old sure beats the alternative." My Dad used to respond, "how do YOU know?" when people would tell him that. A couple of days before he died, he said in a very authoritative manner when we were discussing his demise, "I think the alternative *is* the better choice."

 

[Moemg]

My Mom lived till three months short of 100 . She lived in an apartment in an independent living facility . The last year she had aides coming to assist with bathing and laundry . I visited her in March 2016 and she was still able to dress herself and go to the dining room for dinner . She even attended a St. Patrick's Day party in the lobby and was upset because they did not serve green beer. She died three weeks later after a short hospital stay .Her main problems were severe arthritis but no heart or lung problems.She had no dementia . I doubt I will be that lucky .

 

[imoldernu]

Living on campus in a CCRC for 15 years brings a degree of experience. We have known to one degree or another, several hundred older persons.

"What we really want?" ...as many wishes as there are individuals.

"Verge is 102, and one of the smartest, wisest ladies I have ever known. Pleasant and vivacious, looks to be early 60's, and involved in every activity and party.

Kelly and Helen, our elder couple will be 101 in October, and he'll go for his road test and drivers license renewal on his birthday. Floyd is 94 and and avid cartographer... Bo and his wife are my age, and he still plays touch football, as well as being the local library historian. Milo, at 94, visits with his daughter in Florida, and Granddaughter in South Carolina. Perhaps 6 or 7 in the nursing home or assisted living, over 100, but though physically weak, mentally alert.

Even in the Alzheimer's unit... about 60 persons, while memory/mentally impaired, many are healthy and not depressed.

Oh yes... of course there are many who are younger, more physically impaired, depressed, and not in a happy state. Many who die... sometimes 3 or 4 in a week. With an age spread from 65 to 105, to be expected.

With all that, a diagnosis of terminal physical problems or... as in my own case, progressive dementia, does not necessarily predict a miserable existence.

Twenty years ago, I may have felt differently, but today, not ready to leave this world.

 

[Beststash]

Just finished my Chemo/Rad treatments for cancer and definitely want to get old/er - the experience made me dramatically aware of my mortality. Now just to get bad to my new "normal". At this point I definitely think it beats the alternative. However, I do think that at some point I will be ready to go depending on my physical situation.

 

[ncbill]

My mom died last year at 94. In early March of last year she was living on her own, still driving and mentally competent. Yes, she was a little forgetful but not awful. She was living her life the way she wanted to. She had some serious chronic health conditions, but really they didn't affect her life that much. Yes, she was much more unsteady on her feet than she had been in her 70s and she didn't have as much energy and she didn't really like to go out that much. But, honestly, she was pretty content with her life. She wasn't miserable at all.

And, then her chronic health conditions caught up with her...

Very much the same with my mom's mom.

Lived independently in a two-bedroom cottage at a local CCRC for almost 20 years.

No problems getting around, driving, etc.

Probably the hardest thing for her was losing one of her daughters (my mom) around her 90th birthday.

Then shortly before her 95th birthday she suffered a massive heart attack that left her bedridden & almost totally dependent on others for her ADLs.

So a couple weeks later she decided to discontinue all her medications, & died late that night.

 

[braumeister]

she decided to discontinue all her medications, & died late that night.

Another method, more common than most would realize, is to simply stop eating. I've talked with ER physicians who said it's not that unusual with very old people who don't want to deal with life any more. They generally have a very small appetite to begin with, so they are able to conceal what they're doing from their caregivers. That's what my mother did.

 

[brett]

My hope is that at some point I am cognizant enough to be legally able to request and to obtain medical clearance sign for physician assisted suicide.

 

[joeea]

Just finished my Chemo/Rad treatments for cancer and definitely want to get old/er - the experience made me dramatically aware of my mortality. Now just to get bad to my new "normal". At this point I definitely think it beats the alternative. However, I do think that at some point I will be ready to go depending on my physical situation.

Good luck!

It's amazing how much cancer treatments have improved in recent years. I was lucky enough to get by with just 14 months of non-chemo infusions so far.

 

[joeea]

So a couple weeks later she decided to discontinue all her medications, & died late that night.

Sorry to hear that.

But I liked the "she decided" part.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

This thread is getting quite morbid. However, it is of interest. I would love to know a good method of topping one's self that does not involve guns, does not hurt and is readily available for all to aquire. I may just keep a stash some place as DW & I have a pact that if one of us gets incapacitated or our QOL is drastically reduced, we will make every effort to let the other pass peacefully with no additional pain or stress.

not eating does not work for us we like it too much, and drinking..

 

[Silver]

This thread is getting quite morbid. However, it is of interest. I would love to know a good method of topping one's self that does not involve guns, does not hurt and is readily available for all to aquire. I may just keep a stash some place as DW & I have a pact that if one of us gets incapacitated or our QOL is drastically reduced, we will make every effort to let the other pass peacefully with no additional pain or stress.

not eating does not work for us we like it too much, and drinking..

I know of a couple ages 81 and 88 who bought a mattress and had it delivered to their garage. They made themselves a little bed, turned their car on and left it running, drank 2 bottles of wine, and went to sleep...permanently. I don't know anything about the 'why" they did this. Just that they left a note saying this was their chosen plan.

Until a better plan comes to mind, this sounds OK to me.

 

[steelyman]

It is a sobering thread. An article in today’s NYT touches on the topic (may be behind a paywall):

In 2029, for people 75 to 84 (ages when they’re likely to need long-term care), that would mean access to about $25,000 to $74,000 a year in current dollars. Over age 85, the middle-income category extends to $95,000.

About 14.4 million people will fall into the middle-income category, almost double the current number. Sixty percent will need canes, walkers or wheelchairs to remain mobile, the analysis estimated, and 20 percent will need extensive help with the so-called activities of daily living, such as bathing and dressing.

They’re a better educated and more diverse group of older adults than in the past, less likely to experience poverty. Still, most will be unable to afford assisted living, the authors found.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/10/health/assisted-living-costs-elderly.html

 

[harllee]

I am wondering how much smoking cigarettes has to do with having bad quality of life in the final years. The reason I bring this up--I am age 67, my mother is nearing age 90, in very good shape, lives independently, still drives, mentally sharp. I can think of quite a few friends around my same age who have parents (mainly mothers, some fathers) in their 90s who are still in very good shape (one good friend's mother is 96, just gave up driving and now uses Uber). I have done an informal survey to see if there are any traits in common that could account for the good quality of life for all these age 90 plus folks. One factor stands out--none of these folks ever smoked. If this trait does add to quality of life in the final years this could be great news for those of us coming along since very few of my close acquaintances have ever smoked.

 

[MarieIG]

My friend that was the happiest person became paranoid and angry. Plus she paced for hours and slept little. It was horrible.

Is your friend the one who underwent chemo?

I remember when the medical oncologist recommended a certain course of chemo, she poo-pooed the side effects, but I read the book of side effects cover to cover. One was cognitive deficits. I then did more research, and there was over a 50% permanency for survivors after 20 years.

 

[Moemg]

I am wondering how much smoking cigarettes has to do with having bad quality of life in the final years. The reason I bring this up--I am age 67, my mother is nearing age 90, in very good shape, lives independently, still drives, mentally sharp. I can think of quite a few friends around my same age who have parents (mainly mothers, some fathers) in their 90s who are still in very good shape (one good friend's mother is 96, just gave up driving and now uses Uber). I have done an informal survey to see if there are any traits in common that could account for the good quality of life for all these age 90 plus folks. One factor stands out--none of these folks ever smoked. If this trait does add to quality of life in the final years this could be great news for those of us coming along since very few of my close acquaintances have ever smoked.

Besides not smoking a lot of woman from that generation did not work so they did not experience that stress.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Marie, yes she did. She had stage 4 ovarian cancer and was given 6 months to live. She lived 20 years but had 7 different rounds of chemo plus 8 surgeries. The cancer kept coming back.

 

[kcowan]

DW's father, OTOH, at 93 is still going strong and often calls her with some technical question about processing spreadsheets.

Dad was 92 when he lost his drivers license due to reduced mental capacity from multiple small strokes. I remember him insisting on showing me how he still managed the household just fine. By the time he was 95, DB and I knew he wanted to leave. He fell into his dresser in his bedroom and broke his hip on the way for nocturnal relief. In the hospital, he was unconscious on morphine. My son and I talked to him about being a great granddad to his GCs. He squeezed our hands as we were both holding them on either side of the bed. 24 hours later he was gone. He went willingly on his terms. While being sad, we were happy he was ready to go and did it with dignity.

My mom died last year at 94. In early March of last year she was living on her own, still driving and mentally competent. Yes, she was a little forgetful but not awful. She was living her life the way she wanted to. She had some serious chronic health conditions, but really they didn't affect her life that much. Yes, she was much more unsteady on her feet than she had been in her 70s and she didn't have as much energy and she didn't really like to go out that much. But, honestly, she was pretty content with her life. She wasn't miserable at all.. .

I am wondering how much smoking cigarettes has to do with having bad quality of life in the final years. The reason I bring this up--I am age 67, my mother is nearing age 90, in very good shape, lives independently, still drives, mentally sharp. I can think of quite a few friends around my same age who have parents (mainly mothers, some fathers) in their 90s who are still in very good shape (one good friend's mother is 96, just gave up driving and now uses Uber). I have done an informal survey to see if there are any traits in common that could account for the good quality of life for all these age 90 plus folks. One factor stands out--none of these folks ever smoked. If this trait does add to quality of life in the final years this could be great news for those of us coming along since very few of my close acquaintances have ever smoked.

MIL was a lifetime smoker. But her downfall began with a cataract surgery which went bad when she scratched her cornea while under sedation. This led to her being unable to drive. Which in turn forced her to stop golfing 3 days a week. By the time she was 93, the lack of activity and the ever-present lung cancer claimed her life.

So on both sides, we have been blessed with longevity. OTOH, one of my good friends was stricken with early-onset Alzheimer's at age 58. He was eventually placed in a home and got progressively worse. (I suspect this is a common result of such homes.) Finally after 7 years, his wife asked us what to do. I said what has he told you. She said in one of his rare moments of lucidity, he commented that he wanted to go. So she instructed the facility to stop extra-ordinary (not medically-required) care. After a few weeks, he finally passed.

It is the latter situation that has me thinking about how to provide for such after care. DW is adopted and so we have no idea what she is in for! Although Dad lived to 95, my older brother died at 69.

 

[Nemo2]

Dad was 92 when he lost his drivers license due to reduced mental capacity from multiple small strokes. I remember him insisting on showing me how he still managed the household just fine. By the time he was 95, DB and I knew he wanted to leave..

Went into Kingston today so that DW could install backups on some of her dad's spreadsheets.....due to the sepsis, etc, it's been close to eight weeks since I'd been able to go in and see him.

He now has to rock his chair forward so that he can stand up, (quads are among the first muscles to go), and at 93 and 5 months shuffles along at glacier pace.

He asked for explicit written instructions on how to activate the backups, (which would be fine if it were me, but he was an electrical engineer and swifter than I ever was), because his memory is going fast.

Told DW after we left that he wasn't going to be around long....we both hoped it'd be quick because a care facility would not please him.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

Question: how are you certain no one visits any of these people? You can only be certain of the timeframes you are there, and perhaps the testimony of the lucid. And my Granny would tell you no one came (paid "friend" came daily for several hours to play cards and check up on things, plus my mother visited a lot, my sister separately, and me least often bc I lived out if town).

 

[joeea]

Question: how are you certain no one visits any of these people? You can only be certain of the timeframes you are there, and perhaps the testimony of the lucid. And my Granny would tell you no one came (paid "friend" came daily for several hours to play cards and check up on things, plus my mother visited a lot, my sister separately, and me least often bc I lived out if town).

When my sister in law was more vocal, she would always say that nobody had come to visit her. Yet the sign-in register told a different story.

We learned to stop asking.

 

[MarieIG]

Marie, yes she did. She had stage 4 ovarian cancer and was given 6 months to live. She lived 20 years but had 7 different rounds of chemo plus 8 surgeries. The cancer kept coming back.

What can I say Terry. Awful. I hate cancer. My cousin's wife is going through this (the braca gene).