Do we really want to get old?

Just finished my Chemo/Rad treatments for cancer and definitely want to get old/er - the experience made me dramatically aware of my mortality.


I wish the best for your situation and thank you for the comment above.


Most of us talk "brave" when it comes to death. But the reality (at least from my experience of close ones going through death) is the exact opposite. Most people I knew went as far as they can to extend their life. The process was painful, quality of life non-existent, and yet they clung on to every treatment to see another day. When all hope was completely lost, only then they let go. To me, that's natural, real, and something I also need to prepare for.
 
When it comes to getting old in my area, neighbors visit each other, to check on our friends to see if they are ok ( and also alive). When law enforcement comes to visit by request at times it's too late. I have had peers when I was still working, not come to work for several days and not call sick for their shift. That's when we check in on them and one of them already had passed several days earlier. It's sad but also very real.
 
About Dementia...

Not an either/or proposition. Between 3 and four years in, stage four of Alzheimer's. Memory problems make life more difficult, but relatively minor. A matter of learning to adjust... just as one who has a physical disability. Coping without becoming upset is a key... and not trying to hide the problem makes social life easier...especially in our case, living in a CCRC community.

Not at all unusual for a 5 year to 10 year progression... now, at age 83, a day at a time... Not uncommon to repeat a post, or weigh in a second or third time, with different points of view. Part of the game.

Too often persons with some degree dementia are written off as not having a "life". I know better. We see people, very day, who may not recognize us, but who are entirely cogent, and fun to be around.

What's it like?... Most of the time, it's short term memory loss, as in what day is it? What did I do yesterday? Why did I come in this room? ... But some of the more serious things... as in forgetting how to get to a particular store, or business when out in the car.

What hurts the most, is the loss of memory about the past... dates, places, people, events. For the most part, so far, the deeper intellect and reasoning seems to still be in place, but everything takes longer, with more mistakes.

Between 60 and 80% of Dementia, is deemed to be Alzheimer's. There are more than 5.5 million Americans, and 44 million people worldwide with Alzheimers.

By 2050, an estimated 16 million people in the US will have Alzheimer's.

I am hoping for 10 more years, but don't have much of a say in the matter. No rush to die. Life is too good. :dance:
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative post.

I've generally thought that Alzheimer's/dementia was just too nasty to think about carefully. Your posts bring a different perspective.

I can see myself treating this as a challenge -- how can I modify my world to accommodate some new issues. I think that being in good physical health otherwise would be a big part of an attitude of "life is pretty good, I can deal with this one problem".

That said, I'm sure that I'd feel better if I were confident that I could choose the time that I quit.
 
How likely is it that we will even get to be "old"?

Spent the weekend visiting my FIL at a memory care facility.
The facility houses 50 patients. Its nice, clean and he is well taken care of.

Of the 3 days we were there, we were the only "kids" visiting. All the other patients were on their own in the secured building or in the care of personal aids.

They were former doctors, principals, retired military, business leaders, nurses, mothers, fathers.

If you think your kids will take care of you, I just saw 49 folks who would probably offer a contrarian view.

All the patients had stories that I am sure are now gone. I wondered as I watched them what they would tell us, if they could.

The one huge takeaway for us was we need to retire early as planned and get on with what we truly desire. I have seen what getting old looks like and I am having a hard time accepting that as my future.

Over the past 15 years, I've observed colleagues being railroaded into a retirement they were not ready for (most were a decade or so older than I).
Any who had to work went from a holding a fair to middling mid-mgmt salary to jobs that paid rarely $20./ hr. That doesn't even include seeing my Mom go through it in the early 2000s. We paid a contract guy- for over 7 years did some of our most complex credit reviews- and was the go to guy 3 days a week. This was is desire as it turned out- but the going rate for a new unskilled (essentially lacking specific rules of credit so these day trainees) credit analyst exceeds 60k+. That was 2 yeas ago, so now prob. higher as there are a lot of jobs in my market.

Here are the main reasons why we made it possible for my husb to retire 10 years ago at 62, and me to retire at 56yo:

I am 13 years younger that DH, and worked in a super high-stress job until ER @ 56 during 2016.

Longevity AND early death are in my family (Mom now 83, GMO & GGMO died at 101). Others in the family stroked out VERY young, and others just had/ have ill health for a decade or so before petering out.

My last manager- who'd only been retired for a couple of years- took very good care of himself, but was killed by a truck driver while riding his bike.

Dad got glioblastoma @ 70 or so, and dies in 18 months.

Close cousin had a stroke and died at age 40.

I figure that in part due to my previous lifestyle choices (drank, smoked, got too heavy and had to lose 20 lbs to get off of blood pressure meds), I might get to my late 80s but just as likely into my 70s (or tomorrow).

My GGM and MGM- the centurians- both said for years that they were ready to go and that lasted for years. Frankly I'd rather die young and skip that part... If I get any kind of major disease, I'm going on a walk-about for as long as I'm able, then plan to put myself down going out on a magic carpet ride. My family knows this (they mostly think I'm nuts), and my Mom feels the same. There is a cruise that goes around the world and you can catch up with us onboard.

So far DH & I have had over 2 years together doing what we feel like almost all the time. I've not had a single moment of boredom, and in fact once my CASA case is over in June, I will not be signing on for another case. I have too many other things that aren't being managed as well as I 'd like. So, I'm dropping a 20+ hour monthly commitment for a public radio volunteer gig that isn't going to be stressful at all, and won't have specific time requirements.

Lastly, my definition of old keeps moving ever higher! I do not think of my 82yo Mom as old.
 
Also, "How demented is dementia?" For those who say "I want someone to stop my medication, etc. if I get dementia."

My guess is that the standard for "I'm demented, stop my meds" would be different for someone who has nobody, versus someone with many loving and supportive family members.

Health care POA is something used when you are the point you literally cannot express your wishes anymore.

It's important to pick a health care agent who knows your wishes and will carry them out.

Even if others are opposed...sometimes it's better to pick a friend over a spouse (i.e. see the sad case of Casey Kasem)
 
Most of us talk "brave" when it comes to death. But the reality (at least from my experience of close ones going through death) is the exact opposite. Most people I knew went as far as they can to extend their life. The process was painful, quality of life non-existent, and yet they clung on to every treatment to see another day. When all hope was completely lost, only then they let go. To me, that's natural, real, and something I also need to prepare for.
So true - I had always said that I wouldn't go through this but after getting over the shock of being diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma I came to this conclusion. I had 3 choices - Do nothing and die, kill myself (I didn't really have the guts), or take the treatment.

After going through Chemo and then Radiation it was a good choice. After the Chemo, I had partial remission and now after the Radiation I have to wait 3 months for the inflammation to go down for my next PET scan and hopefully it is gone. I decided to keep my port for a couple of years (can't really feel it much) just in case I have a relapse (very common). All in all it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought - I'm on my way back. My hair has started to come back and the only difference I notice is I don't have as much stamina as before and my immune system is still depressed. Bottom Line - I like being here and as I said earlier until I get into a state where I am physically debilitated I will fight to stay around for myself and family.

BTW-it makes me really glad that I FIRE'd at age 52 - I've had almost 17 years of retirement. You simply cannot predict the future.
 
Rob, you are right that many people will do anything to stay alive. My mom did but my dad did nothing. After his major stroke at 59 he had a DNR. Unfortunately he suffered for 14 years from a host of health issues.
 
I’m less afraid of eventual physical decline than of cognitive decline. Both are inevitable but I worry more about not being able to make sound decisions. If my brain is working reasonably well, then I can self-advocate and, I hope, pay for physical care. Dementia is a different ballgame.

+100
 
BTW-it makes me really glad that I FIRE'd at age 52 - I've had almost 17 years of retirement. You simply cannot predict the future.


Good for you! I FIREd myself at 53. I am 4 years into it and hope to stretch it as long as I can without getting into serious health issues. To that end, I have developed a few good habits - intermittent fasting, keeping my weight light, green tea drinking, grass fed beef/butter/cheese, active hobby list, ....
 
Here is something I just read on Facebook from a friend's post:

Steve Gouves dies a billionaire, with a fortune of $ 7 billion, at the age of 56 from pancreatic cancer, and here are some of his last words:

In other eyes, my life is the essence of success, but aside from work, I have a little joy, and in the end wealth is just a fact of life to which I am accustomed.

At this moment, lying on the bed, sick and remembering all my life, I realize that all my recognition and wealth that I have is meaningless in the face of imminent death.

You can hire someone to drive a car for you, make money for you - but you can not rent someone to carry the disease for you. One can find material things, but there is one thing that can not be found when it is lost - "life".

Treat yourself well, and cherish others. As we get older we are smarter, and we slowly realize that the watch is worth $ 30 or $ 300 - both of which show the same time.

Whether we carry a purse worth $ 30 or $ 300 - the amount of money in the wallets are the same. Whether we drive a car worth $ 150,000, or a car worth $ 30,000 - the road and distance are the same, we reach the same destination.
If we drink a bottle worth $ 300 or wine worth $ 10 - the "stroller" will be the same.

If the house we live in is 300 square meters, or 3000 square meters - the loneliness is the same.
Your true inner happiness does not come from the material things of this world. Whether you're flying first class, or economy class - if the plane crashes, you crash with it.

So, I hope you understand that when you have friends or someone to talk to - this is true happiness!

Five Undeniable Facts-

1. Do not educate your children to be rich. Educate them to be happy. - So when they grow up they will know the value of things, not the price.

2. Eat your food as medicine, otherwise you will need to eat your medicine as food.

3. Whoever loves you will never leave you, even if he has 100 reasons to give up. He will always find one reason to hold on.

4. There is a big difference between being human and human being.

5. If you want to go fast - go alone! But if you want to go far - go together!

And in conclusion,
The six best doctors in the world.
1. Sunlight
2. Rest
3. Exercise
4. Diet
5. Self-confidence
6. Friends

Keep them in all stages of life and enjoy a healthy life.

"Love the people God sent you, one day he'll need them back."
 
Carp, what a great reminder about what’s important.
 
Here is something I just read on Facebook from a friend's post:

If only it were true. Inspirational nonetheless.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/billionaire-steve-guoves-last-words/

rating-false.png
 
That anecdote used to claim to be a quote from Steve Jobs, whom I doubt ever said anything of the kind.

Still, being apocryphal does not make it incorrect.
 
Reading all these posts I find it amazing how some people had parents pass at 53 from a stroke, others are in their 80's and need help to just do basics, and everything in between.

Genetics? Lifestyle? Dealing well with life's stressors?

My dad is 88 and used to pilot his own twin engine plane for fun. He stopped flying 2 years ago but for the giggles subjected himself to a full FAA physical, and passed. Eyes, ears, and everything... of course he has to remind us kids often about this lol. But wow, so many differences in health and longevity across the board.
 
Reading all these posts I find it amazing how some people had parents pass at 53 from a stroke, others are in their 80's and need help to just do basics, and everything in between.

Genetics? Lifestyle? Dealing well with life's stressors?

My dad is 88 and used to pilot his own twin engine plane for fun. He stopped flying 2 years ago but for the giggles subjected himself to a full FAA physical, and passed. Eyes, ears, and everything... of course he has to remind us kids often about this lol. But wow, so many differences in health and longevity across the board.

I'll vote lifestyle.

My white-collar dad was a heavy smoker, very little physical activity apart from playing golf (cart, not walking)...even that was mostly after retirement in his early 50s.

Turns 80 this year, can barely walk despite extensive therapy, & very rarely leaves the house anymore.

Wife's dad, roughly the same age, was a skilled blue-collar worker & always very physically active at work & taking care of their large yard/garden.

He also retired in his early 50s & with his wife traveled around the country/did whatever else they wanted for ~25 years until health issues intervened (he eventually needed a kidney transplant in his mid-70s)

But he's still able to do most of the work in his home/yard, though he does try to avoid crowds given the meds he has to take.
 
Working conditions for my dad. He was a tool grinder in a auto plant. No protective gear was available at the time. He was extremely active until his lungs looked like 2 lumps of coal and he had to take a disability pension at 53.
 
I'm already struggling with memory issues at 60, still working full time trying to find the courage to pull the RE trigger, and this is the most depressing post I've read in a very long time (just because all of it is EXACTLY what I fear happening to me). I have no kids, either.

Thank you to NCbill for the idea of the healthcare POA that says "in case of cancer, don't treat". I do NOT want to linger on forever with dementia. (Then again, my mom is still alive and sharp at 86 ... Dad died with his mind intact at 82, too. So who the flip knows??)
 
I worked in home health care for 20 years and have seen it all. Growing old is not for sissies. Prepare as best you can because we all are going in that direction.
 
Don't know if this the right thread.

I'll keep looking for the article but the premise is that inflammation of the brain caused by cold sores (herpes) is similar to increased chance of shingles by having chicken pox. Both chicken pox and herpes fundamentally change
our DNA forever (at least until we kick the bucket). In the case of chicken pox, it increases the chances of shingles later in life. I've had both. Trust me, shingles is no joke. Imagine just air being painful as it touches your raw nerve endings exposed when your skin has blistered away. Not fun.

Back to herpes. One theory is that that the inflammation in the brain caused by herpes, and other brain inflammations, limits the neuron cleansing process that should happen every night while we sleep (removing some amyloid plaques).

(https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323383.php)

This cleansing process is vital to store memories in preparation for the next days memories. Dreaming is just to distract our brain from the cleaning process. Here is a good book "Why We Sleep"

"The first sleep book by a leading scientific expert--Professor Matthew Walker, Director of UC Berkeley's Sleep and Neuroimaging Lab--reveals his groundbreaking exploration of sleep, explaining how we can harness its transformative power to change our lives for the better." (https://www.ebay.com/p/Why-We-Sleep...ker-2017-Hardcover/239758565?iid=303140951706). I'm frugal, I checked it out as an eBook through my local library.


This talk
tied everything together for me and explains a keto diet in the mix. I found it enlightening.
 
My parents both had healthy lifestyles. Dad FIRE'd at 55. He lived nearly 40 years in retirement. He regularly played tennis until he was 85 when a painful joint problem hit him. At 90, classic vascular dementia began. It was a gradual downhill for 4 years, though he always remained upbeat and uncomplaining. Then he had a serious stroke at 94, and lived for 8 more months but needed 24/7 home care after the stroke. Interesting fact: Dad's lifespan and his dad's lifespan differed by only 8 days.

Mom kept everything going while dad declined, still driving to the grocery store and pharmacy. I live nearby and helped out. I FIRE'd 2 years into my dad's decline. Mom was 93 when dad died. 5 months after he died, her own dementia began. Initial diagnosis was also vascular dementia, but after 2 years, the neurologist changed it to Alzheimers, though it is not classical Alzheimers. She wouldn't accept any help until she fell nearly 2 1/2 years ago and had 2 major fractures. She's had 24/7 home care since she came home from rehabilitation. After her dementia began but before she accepted home care, she phoned me virtually every evening, up to 5 times per evening, because she couldn't find my dad. That hell continued for nearly 18 months. Fortunately, her personality hasn't had any major changes, though things are somewhat kept under control with meds.

I wish my parents had moved out of their house. Even with 24/7 home care, I have to buy all of the food, pick up her prescriptions, take her to appts, pay her bills, pay the caregivers (and sometimes replace them), fix things or arrange to fix things in her home, handle her finances, and on and on. (My sibling doesn't do a damn thing, and we no longer speak as a result.)

My dad had a generous pension and as a result, with their LBYM habits, my parents amassed $$$ in retirement but the spigot has reversed with the home care expenses. Mom is 97 now and there's enough $$$ to keep this up until at least her early 100s. I suppose a reverse mortgage could be a possibility after that if her funds run out. But mom's quality of life has reduced to near zero. She's neither happy nor miserable. She sleeps more and more, watches TV, and reads and re-reads the paper. She has no short-term memory, and even her long-term memory isn't very good, though she still knows who everyone is. Her walking ability has become increasingly restricted. When her mood goes south (it happens occasionally but not constantly), she expresses her desire to die. I tell myself that if it gets to the point where she no longer recognizes me, then it's time for a nursing home.

I wouldn't want to live like this, and there isn't anyone who would be looking after me the way I look after her, if that is ever needed. I hope I have the awareness, means, and courage to end things peacefully on my own terms when and if the time comes.
 
When my MIL's dementia began to worsen, we investigated all the full-care nearby facilities (8 in all) within 15 min. street driving to our home. We winnowed the group gradually thru multiple visits down to two, and DH picked one as being the best "fit".

She was still in most ways "compos mentis". She could dress herself, make her own cup of coffee with cream and sugar, bathe herself, and enjoy a weekly seniors exercise class at the senior center. Loved to window shop but seldom bought anything. Kept in touch with long-distance friends and family every day by cell phone. Loved watching "Jeopardy" and doing her daily Sudoku puzzle.

There are over 50 different causes of dementia, some reversible and some not. Alzheimer's, as most know, is a specific type of dementia, but there are many others.

Standardized routines and social interaction are often helpful in delaying the worst symptoms - and this proved true with my MIL. She was 85 when we moved her to the facility. To say she was shocked to find she was considered "the young one" at her dining table, was putting it mildly!

Family commented to us they had not seen her so happy since her husband died. She took up bocce ball at age 86 and loved it. The food was excellent (we had a couple of family parties there) and the staff adored her. It's one of the top three seniorcare facilities in the state and their turnover ratio is extremely low (which counted heavily in their favor during our research).

She died unexpectedly and her passing was peaceful. We have kept in touch with the facility; we donate annually to their Employee Fund and to the Charitable Patient Care Fund, the last being for those residents who have outlived their funds but still require care.

We were just there today as we are participating in a focus group the facility organized to identify how it can anticipate future changes that will be needed as the WWII generation dies off and Boomers begin to need care.

While we were waiting in the reception area, a staffer pushed the wheelchair of a stereotypical 'little old lady' past us - very frail-looking, 90 yrs old if she was a day; maybe 75 lbs. soaking wet. We heard the staffer asking, "Now, would you prefer to go up to your room, or join the exercise class instead?"

"Oh, the exercise class, of course," the resident replied. She had a quavery little voice that exactly matched her fragile appearance.

We've known some people who died exactly as they wanted to. Others didn't. Either way, I don't see any point in being fearful about an unknown future. We did what we could to lower our risk profile, and ensure the surviving spouse won't suffer financially.

Beyond that, it's the future and luck - good OR bad.
 
I had a near-death experience at 47. I was in the ER with intolerable pain and suddenly, after hours of pain, I felt removed from all the cares and worries people have. I thought I was dying and felt “what the hell, I can’t do anything”. Fortunately it didn’t go to flatlining and reviving me. But it was strangely peacefully. As a result of this, I don’t fear dying at all. I fear pain, I fear dementia, but not dying. I think if I’m able, I will stop eating and drinking and die at the right time. Dementia doesn’t run in my family but I know that’s not guarantee.

What caused my near-death experience... after a 7 hour emergency surgery, tumors on both ovaries. They were huge and one burst. But they were not really malignant. I didn’t have chemo or radiation, just a lot of checkups.
 
I wish my parents had moved out of their house. Even with 24/7 home care, I have to buy all of the food, pick up her prescriptions, take her to appts, pay her bills, pay the caregivers (and sometimes replace them), fix things or arrange to fix things in her home, handle her finances, and on and on. (My sibling doesn't do a damn thing, and we no longer speak as a result.)

So true. I am in the same boat as you, although not at 24/7 home care yet. It's a full-time job, isn't it? Just arranging the doctor visits takes me several hours a week, and at least 4 hours per visit to actually go to them (1/2 hour to drive to parent's house, 1 hour to nag parent to get out of bed, get dressed, get going, 2 hours to go to the actual appointment and back, 1/2 hour to drive home). In addition, my parent is a hoarder in a 3500 sq. ft. house and we aren't allowed to clean (we're not good enough, don't do it right, can't bear to throw out anything eg expired medications, etc.). And parent doesn't/won't clean, doesn't have the energy, has better things to do (go shopping! for more stuff!). And I have to spend a lot of time in the disgustingly dirty cluttered house. Maybe I should start wearing a mask and coveralls when visiting lol.

Luckily I am retired, don't live too far away (20 miles), have a sibling who helps a lot but is still working so can't do much, and parent has a super duper LTC policy that will pay forever for about 8 hours a day of in-house caregivers or full-time assisted living. But I am resenting spending MY retirement taking care of PARENT's retirement needs. It's hard enough at my age (mid-60s) to do all my own housework and yardwork, so why am I also doing hers (or not doing it, as the case may be)? I dream of parent finally moving to assisted living so I can have some of my time back, not have to drive so far to visit, have time to take parent out to eat and do fun things in addition to the never-ending doctor visits.

I don't have kids so my plan is to do something like Imoldrnu did (my hero!) and my uncle did: move to a really nice CCRC when I'm 80-ish or when needed. I have LTC insurance and thank goodness, it really made a difference in being able to take care of my parent as parent can afford some caregivers for personal needs (I'm not good at that).
 
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