Is ER a perculiarly America concept

[nun]

Is ER a peculiarly America concept

I've looked for foreign ER sites, but can't find any. There's certainly none that I can find in the UK and the idea of stopping paid work is almost unheard of there, maybe because retirement accounts are not as flexible as in the US and after tax equity investing is still a bit of a novelty.

Another explanation might the European concept of "La Dolce Vita". In the UK its more "let's go down the pub", but the stress of everyday life is less so that people just aren't as desperate to ER as in the US.

 

[Nords]

If by "peculiar" you mean "different from the usual or normal", well, then, yes, perhaps it is.

Or maybe we Americans are rediscovering a concept that's been embraced by Europeans, South Americans, & Polynesians for centuries-- to say nothing of Samuel Johnson.

But if by "peculiar" you mean "odd, curious, eccentric, queer"... well, geez, let's not go there again.

 

[maddythebeagle]

Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...

 

[W2R]

Since I'll be retiring at age 61.5, which some here do not consider to be extremely early, I looked online for a good message board for people wanting to retire in general. Although there are several good investment boards, for a broad variety of other more general retirement issues I couldn't find anything that I liked as much as this board.

I think that this message board is unusual for any country or topic. It just happens to have attracted some very savvy participants who have a lot to say.

 

[Bikerdude]

France has many union jobs that retire at 50. Same for Italy. Don't know about Germany but I suspect the same. That seems to qualify as ER to me. Plus when they do work they get 8 weeks "holiday" every year plus other time off.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

we are everywhere.

The Idler Forum

Why Work? :: Index

though not e.r. per say, i would also point to many expat & travel forums whose participants often value leisure higher than work.

as to being particularly american, hey, if i had 5 weeks off a year maybe i wouldn't have e.r.'d. oh, wait, never mind, actually i had more than that. i must just be lazy.

edit: here's a 2005 blog on japan (i can not speak to the authors' accuracy--no idea who they are)

The Becker-Posner Blog: Later Retirement: Japan Leads the Way--BECKER

What spurs the Japanese to work beyond the official retirement age is partly that they usually are in good health, and do not look forward to about 30 years of retirement without much to do. However, they also continue to work because retirement benefits from the government and private companies are modest, even for higher-level executives. Retirement income of about $2000 per month is at the high end, so most workers who retire at 60 receive much less than that. They decide to work in their 60's and their 70's in order to supplement greatly their incomes.

doing a quick search for e.r. in japan, mostly i just get articles on job cuts.

 

[AltaRed]

Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...

Universal health care makes it extremely easy to move from company to company, retire, move between provinces, etc. Having said that, health care is the domain of provinces which must meet the minimum requirements of the Canada Health Act to receive federal funds, but which are also free to cover more (or less) procedures and some alternative approaches to care. That makes for some quirks for folks moving between provinces, but it doesn't influence decisions.

 

[Zipper]

Health care does not rate in the Zippers retirement. (Canada)

 

[RetireeRobert]

Since I'll be retiring at age 61.5, which some here do not consider to be extremely early, I looked online for a good message board for people wanting to retire in general.

I have been misreading several posts lately. I need to slow down.

I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".

 

[TickTock]

I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".

Hey, who isn't?

 

[W2R]

I have been misreading several posts lately. I need to slow down.

I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".

LOL!!! Good idea!

 

[youbet]

Universal health care makes it extremely easy to move from company to company, retire, move between provinces, etc. Having said that, health care is the domain of provinces which must meet the minimum requirements of the Canada Health Act to receive federal funds, but which are also free to cover more (or less) procedures and some alternative approaches to care. That makes for some quirks for folks moving between provinces, but it doesn't influence decisions.

This is the main reason I'm for some type of universal health care down here. Locking folks into jobs they grow to hate just doesn't seem very efficient. Especially public sector employees. So many that post here seem burned out and desperate to get out of a lifetime of toil for the agency they joined right out of college or high school. With universal health care and cash balance pensions, they'd be free from golden handcuffs and could move to where they want to be.

 

[chris2008]

In Germany the "legal" age for retirement is moving up from 63/ladies, 65/men to 67, while in reality lots of employees leave at about 60 to 62 due to employer/employee bargains and unemployment.

The concept of ER might not be so popular here because in most jobs you have minimum 4 weeks, usually 5-6 weeks of paid vacation per year and people really take it. Then, if you have health issues you can apply for add 4-6 weeks for rehab every some years.
I am sure this makes a huge difference.

In the last years the employer/employee deals became rather unattractive as unemployment system and tax system was changed. Now that the legal age for retirement is also moving up more people will become be aware of the need to cover some years between job and receiving pension / full social security.
Even though our employers cannot terminate employment as easy as in the US, it is not attractive to stay where you are not welcome any more after a certain age.
Yes, we have age discrimination laws. But then reality kicks in...

So far there is no specialised website on (voluntary) early retirement issues I know of.

 

[Rambler]

we are everywhere.

The Idler Forum

Why Work? :: Index

though not e.r. per say, i would also point to many expat & travel forums whose participants often value leisure higher than work.

as to being particularly american, hey, if i had 5 weeks off a year maybe i wouldn't have e.r.'d. oh, wait, never mind, actually i had more than that. i must just be lazy.

edit: here's a 2005 blog on japan (i can not speak to the authors' accuracy--no idea who they are)

The Becker-Posner Blog: Later Retirement: Japan Leads the Way--BECKER



doing a quick search for e.r. in japan, mostly i just get articles on job cuts.

The real reason the Japanese men do not want to retire is that their homes are on average about 600-650 sq ft...and that includes room for all their possessions and their wife. The wives don't know what to do with the "gomi" (garbage) after he is retired. So, they insist he either stay employed or seek re-employment. Everyone thinks Japan is a "men's society"....well, now you know who the real boss is...

R

 

[nun]

France has many union jobs that retire at 50. Same for Italy. Don't know about Germany but I suspect the same. That seems to qualify as ER to me. Plus when they do work they get 8 weeks "holiday" every year plus other time off.

I wasn't thinking of jobs where you officially retire at 50 with a nice pension, I was thinking of the US model where you leave before you have to. I think the US tradition of self reliance is a big factor in this.

 

[beowulf]

I wasn't thinking of jobs where you officially retire at 50 with a nice pension, I was thinking of the US model where you leave before you have to. I think the US tradition of self reliance is a big factor in this.

I really believe this to be true. That and the fact that pretty much anyone can make a lot of money in the US if they really try hard and have a bit of luck. Most other societies, even in developed countries, are far more tradition oriented - you do what your parents did and you are somewhat locked into the social position you are born into. That's changing to some degree, but it really was never a factor here.

And, in many countries, if you don't work, you don't eat, and the elderly are completely at the mercy of the government. Our self-reliance makes one heck of a difference.

 

[jambo101]

Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...

I'm sure we are paying as much in taxes in the form of payroll deductions for our healthcare system as a US based private health plan would cost.
As the govmnt no longer itemizes the cost for health care on our pay checks i can only guess that it would be around $40 to $50 per week.

 

[nun]

I really believe this to be true. That and the fact that pretty much anyone can make a lot of money in the US if they really try hard and have a bit of luck. Most other societies, even in developed countries, are far more tradition oriented - you do what your parents did and you are somewhat locked into the social position you are born into. That's changing to some degree, but it really was never a factor here.

And, in many countries, if you don't work, you don't eat, and the elderly are completely at the mercy of the government. Our self-reliance makes one heck of a difference.

Actually the US has the most rigid social class system. Its very hard to move up the socio-economic ladder in the US

 

[gandalf42]

Actually the US has the most rigid social class system. Its very hard to move up the socio-economic ladder in the US

Are you having a bad ladder day?

 

[Milton]

Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...

On the other hand, Americans enjoy substantially lower taxes, so they are able to save/invest more money than Canadians and should thus be in a position to afford private health insurance in ER.

 

[beowulf]

Actually the US has the most rigid social class system. Its very hard to move up the socio-economic ladder in the US

I hate to take an absolutely different view from someone on a forum, but that's got to be pretty much the most incorrect and ridiculous statement I have ever seen. As cheesy as it may sound, the US really is a land of unlimited opportunity for those who are willing to take the risks and do the work. Yes, we still have the Rockefellers, the Kennedys and their ilk, but how many of today's billionaires and millionaires came from totally humble, if not downtrodden, roots. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, politicians such as Harry Truman, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon and many others grew up on the other side of the tracks and became wildly successful. Most families with money in the US are new money - made in the last 50 years.

Anyone in the US can go to a 4 year college - maybe not Harvard or Yale, but I know many people who went to those schools and grew up in a rambler in the suburbs. How many Brits who do not come from old families get to go to Eton or Cambridge? How many of the unwashed millions in India ever get to rise out of poverty?

My parents were emigrants in the early 20th century. I grew up in a small apartment in NYC and my father was a carpenter, my mother a secretary. I've spent a career in the military and government, gone to some of the finest schools in the US (to include Harvard). I've had opportunities that would never have existed for me in the "old country."

I didn't choose to go for the money and picked public service instead, so I'm not privy to the high social classes. But I had the opportunity to do so and it was not to my liking.

To say that pretty much any American can be anything they want is a truth demonstrated all the time. Maybe there are some old society rich folks who put their noses in their air when mere commoners walk by, but there sure aren't many of them and the new money has equal access to anything they want.

Last time I checked, this is the only country people are fighting to get into and even willing to die in the effort. Hard to move up the socio-economic ladder?? Not in the America I know.

 

[AltaRed]

On the other hand, Americans enjoy substantially lower taxes, so they are able to save/invest more money than Canadians and should thus be in a position to afford private health insurance in ER.

For what it is worth, a number of studies have been done that show the aggregate tax burden for individuals (income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, capital taxes, FICA, health insurance) is not much different between Canada and the US. It is erroneous to differentiate between the ability to afford private health insurance with universal health insurance paid for via income taxes. They are the same thing except one is theoretically voluntary while the other is not.

 

[AltaRed]

Last time I checked, this is the only country people are fighting to get into and even willing to die in the effort. Hard to move up the socio-economic ladder?? Not in the America I know.

That is most preposterous. Virtually all OECD countries have in-migration, and the G7 (plus Australia) have the most in-migration. It is also an insult to suggest it is hard for Canadians, Australians, Brits, Francophones, etc to move up the socio-economic ladder. As an example, the vast majority of the Top 100 in Canada (in wealth) is based on new money.

 

[kombat]

Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, politicians such as Harry Truman, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon and many others grew up on the other side of the tracks

Actually, to pick a nit, Bill Gates' parents were very, very wealthy.

 

[Trek]

Last time I checked, this is the only country people are fighting to get into and even willing to die in the effort.

You should check around more.

I can't turn on the news here without seeing boatloads of poor North Africans trying (and dying) to get themselves to Europe.

The Associated Press: Immigrant Boat Lands in Canary Islands

News | Africa - Reuters.com

(UPDATE) 51 immigrants drown off Turkey -- official - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

And people are willing to die smuggling themselves from North Korea to China. Or from Moldova to Russia. Or Iraq to Iran.

A lot of different places offer people a better life.