SINGLE life after FIRE

[lazygood4nothinbum]

I'm totally straight. There's nothing I like better than a great guy.

or you are a gay man trapped inside a woman's body. i would have to see the landscaping around your house to test that theory (as neither str8s nor lesbians ever seem to know what they're doing with a plant.)

masculinity isn't just sex. in many cultures it is associated with both confidence and control, so it is not odd that you might come off at first, in writing to strangers, as a man.

 

[dex]

or you are a gay man trapped inside a woman's body. i would have to see the landscaping around your house to test that theory (as neither str8s nor lesbians ever seem to know what they're doing with a plant.)

What is a gay woman trapped in a man's body?

masculinity isn't just sex. in many cultures it is associated with both confidence and control, so it is not odd that you might come off at first, in writing to strangers, as a man.

If there is a slant to her writing it might have more to do with her professional experience. I thought the style was gender neutral.

It depends upon what you consider confidence and control and that can be misinterpreted by one culture looking at another. There is an island in Japan where the women do the labor and the men stay at home.
In Italy and even in some Latin American countries some might say that it is a male dominated society. However, women exert their influences in more subtle ways than someone from the USA might notice.

Even the idea of one sex having control over another is relatively a modern one - 800 years or so. One way of looking at it is a byproduct of the introduction of romantic love into the man/woman relationship. The gender roles became more stereotyped. Prior to the introduction of romantic love, men's and women's lives were more equal in most if not all aspects of life.

The idea of control or confidence of one sex over another, as you put it, really didn't take root until the industrial revolution and really after WWII when men dominated the workforce.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

a lumberjack with comfortable shoes.

to the rest of whatever that was, i did qualify my statement by saying "many cultures", acknowledging that it was ha & myself, being of similar culture, who both mistook the op's sex. my specific reference had to do with the op's attraction to, as she euphemistically put it, the "younger set", which by definition means she gets off with guys who have about a generation of less sexual experience than she. that would be the confidence and control to which i referred in trying to stay in tune with the thoughts of the original poster, though tangential or even extraneous explorations are always nice too, regardless of intent.

 

[bbbamI]

Omni...I am sorry for the loss you have experienced.

I understand why you feel lonely as this has recently happened. How can a broken heart be healed...in my experience it takes time. I don't think that once we love someone we can ever forget what they brought to our life, nor do I believe we ever stop loving them...and I think that's the way it should be.

Given time, I believe you will think more of what you gave to the relationship. During this time, I believe you will find even more attributes of yourself that not only make a significant other happy, but what makes you happy.

Slow down and find yourself first. I believe people are attracted to others that show confidence and optimism.

There is a difference between being alone and lonely. Believe me, I know this feeling very well.

 

[Dawg52]

I believe people are attracted to others that show confidence and optimism.

I guess I'm SOL.

 

[REWahoo]

Take heart, Dawg. I'll bet there is a gal out there somewhere who can't resist guys with severely bruised foreheads...

 

[Dawg52]

Take heart, Dawg. I'll bet there is a gal out there somewhere who can't resist guys with severely bruised foreheads...

Hmmmmm......could be worth a few bruises.

 

[bbbamI]

.......

 

[AltaRed]

I haven't posted in this forum for a relatively long time, but this thread struck my interest. I knew my 38 year marriage was failing before I even retired, and when I did retire at 57, retirement, separation and divorce all happened within an 18 month time period. I am still adjusting to my new single life (given my perceived/planned view of retirement 10 years ago was way different than what it is today in reality). While it has been 100% freedom to do exactly what I want with no commitments or responsibility and that has been enjoyable, it has also had its lonely moments. So I chose to get involved in 2 volunteer activities (volunteer Boards of non-profits), plus a weekly hike (or snowshoeing in winter) in an outdoor club, plus helping divorcee neighbours and a divorcee friend from work with everyday and other business problems. That has provided needed social interaction in my life.

Only in the last 4 months (relatively fresh off my divorce) have I found a new partner my age who has been divorced for many years. She still works 4 days per week so that structures the time we have (and don't have) together and it actually helps by allowing us to have our individual time, as well as together time. For now, we enjoy spending the weekends together and going to functions and events together. We will take each week and month, a week and a month at a time. Whether it works long term, only time will tell.

I think the key is to get involved in a few social/volunteer activities to get re-started in this next phase of life. Then perhaps try the Internet dating system, e.g. match.com or eharmony.com type of system, where preliminary matching/screening is done for you, and your profile is only seen by the system's matches (not there to be seen by millions of males/scabs from every corner of society). It works for people our age and I know of at least a few couples that met that way and are in multi-year relationships now.

 

[ziggy29]

Then perhaps try the Internet dating system, e.g. match.com or eharmony.com type of system, where preliminary matching/screening is done for you, and your profile is only seen by the system's matches (not there to be seen by millions of males/scabs from every corner of society). It works for people our age and I know of at least a few couples that met that way and are in multi-year relationships now.

Of course, if my single female friends and acquaintances are to be believed, the toughest part of this is navigating through the minefield of married guys just looking for a little on the side, perhaps even lying about their marital status in so doing...

 

[haha]

Of course, if my single female friends and acquaintances are to be believed, the toughest part of this is navigating through the minefield of married guys just looking for a little on the side, perhaps even lying about their marital status in so doing...

One thing I haven't been able to get straight- if what you are after is a date, some fun, maybe an interesting evening, what is wrong with married men/women? One thing you know about a married person is that they are bearable to at least one person. Especially for people like some here who are very protective of their autonomy and privacy, nothing quite like a married lover to respect that!

Ha

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

this is even a problem in the gay world, yes, with so-called str8 married guys. too annoying! when i was younger they used to come after me so frequently that in retrospect i wonder if i had nsa (no strings attached) printed on my forehead.

i did play with them when i was younger as then i had fun with just about everyone while in early exploration of myself. then somewhere along the line i developed a conscience in this regard. i realized two things and adjusted my behavior accordingly.

if a married guy is screwing around on the dl (down low) with me, then i become an accomplice to his deception. and even if he is playing with me on the um, up & up, then basically, she gets the house but all i get is d*ck. either way, he gets his rocks off but i just get shafted? no thank you. i wouldn't find that very satisfying and i suspect his wife isn't satisfied either. certainly he's not satisfied; he's just confused.

 

[Meadbh]

One thing I haven't been able to get straight- if what you are after is a date, some fun, maybe an interesting evening, what is wrong with married men/women? One thing you know about a married person is that they are bearable to at least one person. Especially for people like some here who are very protective of their autonomy and privacy, nothing quite like a married lover to respect that!

Ha

Ha, you are thinking like old European aristocracy here. Have you seen the recent movie "The Duchess" with Keira Knightley and Ralph Fiennes?

I recently watched a doccumentary about the "other" other woman in Prince Charles' life (not Camilla, but an Australian called Dale Tryon). Camilla "won" in the end because she followed "the rules": once Charles married, hands off till the heir to the throne was delivered; once married herself, off limits till after the first child was born.

Bizarre!

 

[Meadbh]

a lumberjack with comfortable shoes.

to the rest of whatever that was, i did qualify my statement by saying "many cultures", acknowledging that it was ha & myself, being of similar culture, who both mistook the op's sex. my specific reference had to do with the op's attraction to, as she euphemistically put it, the "younger set", which by definition means she gets off with guys who have about a generation of less sexual experience than she. that would be the confidence and control to which i referred in trying to stay in tune with the thoughts of the original poster, though tangential or even extraneous explorations are always nice too, regardless of intent.

Hey Lazy, just admit it, you were guilty of stereotyping just because she's an engineer!

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

my ol'man was an engineer. i have a completely different subset of stereotyping reserved for them.

 

[Khan]

One thing I haven't been able to get straight- if what you are after is a date, some fun, maybe an interesting evening, what is wrong with married men/women? One thing you know about a married person is that they are bearable to at least one person. Especially for people like some here who are very protective of their autonomy and privacy, nothing quite like a married lover to respect that!

Ha

One potential problem: spouse does not know they are straying, finds out, and seeks revenge on the person that 'stole/enticed/corrupted' straying spouse.

 

[ziggy29]

One thing I haven't been able to get straight- if what you are after is a date, some fun, maybe an interesting evening, what is wrong with married men/women? One thing you know about a married person is that they are bearable to at least one person. Especially for people like some here who are very protective of their autonomy and privacy, nothing quite like a married lover to respect that!

Theoretically nothing as long as there is full disclosure, no secrets and acceptance from all involved.

I doubt that's often the case, at least with respect to dating sites. In general, when no one is hiding anything, sometimes it is nice for one married person to occasionally hang out with a married person of the opposite sex as long as everyone is clear that there's no hanky-panky going on, it's strictly friendship and that it's not being hidden from spouses. At least the faithful married ones are, well, "safe" in terms of not being expected to eventually put out.

 

[honobob]

YouTube - My Baby Does the Hanky Panky

 

[haha]

Theoretically nothing as long as there is full disclosure, no secrets and acceptance from all involved.

I agree. I know what divorce feels like, and in America having an affair is an invitation to divorce. If I liked a woman I wouldn't want to put her in jeopardy. And it may be sexist, but I also wouldn't want to steal from the husband.

And if I were tempted, I would give some real thought to the hazard mentioned by Kahn. I'm not very brave, that would do it for me.

ha

 

[Goonie]

One potential problem: spouse does not know they are straying, finds out, and seeks revenge on the person that 'stole/enticed/corrupted' straying spouse.

The brother of a friend of mine had that very experience and reaction. He found out his wife was having an affair, and shortly after that he walked in on the 2 of them in bed in her lover's house. He pulled out a 9mm and emptied the clip into her lover's head. It abruptly ended the affair....as well as his own freedom. He was sent to prison for home invasion & homicide, but has since been released.....both from prison and his marriage!

And he always seemed to be such a nice, well-balanced, level-headed kind of guy....an upstanding citizen in the community, and an outstanding law enforcement officer. I guess he just snapped that night. They said after he took care of his business, he laid the weapon on the counter, phoned the local PD, identified himself, told them what he had done, and asked them to send a squad to that location. He also had made certain that his wife was out of the way before he opened fire, because he didn't want her to get hurt. He was rational and irrational at the same time. He pleaded guilty, refused 'deals' offered by the DA, and saved everyone a long, drawn out trial. He accepted & served his sentence without any arguments or appeals.

I guess the moral of the story is, if he ever remarries.....steer clear of his ol' lady!!!

 

[W2R]

One thing I haven't been able to get straight- if what you are after is a date, some fun, maybe an interesting evening, what is wrong with married men/women?

(Nobody is going to like my answer to your question, but I am sick and in a foul mood so here goes.)

In my own personal ethical framework, there is such a thing as right and wrong - - and to me this is wrong. Marriage promises are a commitment that is not released until the marriage is ended. Those promises go beyond the physical act. I was strong enough to stick to my marriage promises until that marriage was dissolved, and I would not want to date a man who couldn't. I deserve someone who views commitment in the same ways I do.

So, I would not date a married man because a married man who would date me, is not a good match for me. I also would not date a married man because it would be an extreme unkindness towards his wife who has done nothing to me. I am not the kind of person to do such a thing.

All this is pretty theoretical in my case, since Frank and I have been commited to one another for a number of years. I would no more date someone else, than fly. But when I was "dating around", the above applied.

 

[haha]

(Nobody is going to like my answer to your question, but I am sick and in a foul mood so here goes.)

In my own personal ethical framework, there is such a thing as right and wrong - - and to me this is wrong. Marriage promises are a commitment that is not released until the marriage is ended. Those promises go beyond the physical act. I was strong enough to stick to my marriage promises until that marriage was dissolved, and I would not want to date a man who couldn't. I deserve someone who views commitment in the same ways I do.

So, I would not date a married man because a married man who would date me, is not a good match for me. I also would not date a married man because it would be an extreme unkindness towards his wife who has done nothing to me. I am not the kind of person to do such a thing.

As I said above,

I agree. I know what divorce feels like, and in America having an affair is an invitation to divorce. If I liked a woman I wouldn't want to put her in jeopardy. And it may be sexist, but I also wouldn't want to steal from the husband.

And if I were tempted, I would give some real thought to the hazard mentioned by Kahn. I'm not very brave, that would do it for me.

ha

I know at least 2 couples who stay married because they cannot make it alone financially, but they lead separate lives while living in the same house. This really makes the situation different, but I think it would still seem weird to me. Although I do not see it as right or wrong, more like comfortable vs. uncomfortable.

Ha

 

[ziggy29]

In my own personal ethical framework, there is such a thing as right and wrong - - and to me this is wrong. Marriage promises are a commitment that is not released until the marriage is ended. Those promises go beyond the physical act. I was strong enough to stick to my marriage promises until that marriage was dissolved, and I would not want to date a man who couldn't. I deserve someone who views commitment in the same ways I do.

I think at least some of the question is what is meant by "date." As we usually use it, that word has at least potentially romantic/sexual connotations, and by that yardstick it is indeed a bit more distasteful for the masses.

But if you merely mean someone to hang out with -- a "safe" confidante of the opposite sex -- in a platonic sense, I don't necessarily see anything wrong as long as (a) everyone understands that fact (no misrepresentation) and your spouse/steady SO knows and accepts it (no secrets/lies). In which case, you'd be on a "date" (in quotation marks) and not on a real date -- and even then only in a playful/joking sense.

I guess I don't really think of occasional social engagement with the opposite sex as a "date" -- to me that word is loaded with assumptions and "baggage" about future expectations that aren't appropriate for most people in a committed relationship.

In that sense, my wife and I have both occasionally done things like go out to lunch with or see a movie with a friend of the opposite sex. But in both cases there were no secrets and it was very clear to all that there was nothing to it in terms of ulterior motives -- so there was no problem. I guess for the reasons above, most people wouldn't call that a "date," though.

 

[W2R]

(Nobody is going to like my answer to your question, but I am sick and in a foul mood so here goes.)

I know at least 2 couples who stay married because they cannot make it alone financially, but they lead separate lives while living in the same house.

I think at least some of the question is what is meant by "date."

See? I knew nobody would like my answer, though you two are very polite about it.

To me, there are no ifs, ands, or buts. Marriage is marriage, and we all know in our hearts what is and isn't consistent with our commitments. To me, there is no gray area. If there is even the slightest doubt, then it isn't. Moreover, it's a commendable practice to err on the side of caution and avoid "almost violating commitments" by doing anything that is even remotely borderline, because it's a slip-slidey road.

Continuing a marriage for financial reasons shows a lack of respect for marital vows, and I would never respect someone who did that. Part of the implicit marital vows are that your partner is also your best friend and confidante. Putting someone else in that role is as bad as engaging in wild, abandoned sex with that person, in my opinion. True, while married and in college I had "study buddies", but I made sure we never met except in groups and discussions did not really go beyond engineering problems. As long as I was married, I really wanted to be married. My Aggie study buddies were honorable men and assumed that was the way I would want things to be, too. I didn't have to tell any of them how this should be.

I know - - I'm a hard woman! I'm also a divorced woman with a clear conscience.

 

[ziggy29]

See? I knew nobody would like my answer, though you two are very polite about it.

To me, there are no ifs, ands, or buts. Marriage is marriage, and we all know in our hearts what is and isn't consistent with our commitments. To me, there is no gray area. If there is even the slightest doubt, then it isn't.

Just to be sure I'm not misunderstanding, are you saying it's never appropriate for married people to socialize with someone of the opposite sex, at least if it's just the two of them and not in a general group setting -- even if there is no romantic interest whatsoever and everyone knows it? That's what it sounds like to me.

Sounds like something out of "When Harry Met Sally" -- where Harry claims men and women can't just be friends because the romantic pressures always get in the way...