Suggestions on Southern US winter home please

[FIREd]

I would suggest Huntsville and Athens, Alabama (but South east Tennessee and North western Georgia could work as well). Plenty of clean, (almost) gator-free lakes that allow water sports (jet ski, boating, swimming, fishing...), winters are mild (snow falls are rare) though the temperatures might dip in the 20s some time to time, rolling hills, larger cities nearby (Nashville, Birmingham, and Chattanooga are all within 1.5 hour drive, Memphis and Atlanta are about 3.5 hours away). Huntsille has a pop. of ~350K for the metro, a well served airport, good hospitals, one of the most educated population in the country (lots of engineers), striving economy, and it is neither too conservative nor too liberal. In northern Alabama housing prices are very affordable, property taxes are cheap. No housing bubble here either according to the media. Home prices are up nearly 8% year over year (top 15% home price growth in the country for the past year). Humidity levels are very high in the summer but reasonable in the winter.
The gator situation is this: we have a fairly small population (less than 100 in our larger lakes from what I can gather) and no recorded attack on humans as far as I can tell. Northern Alabama is geographically on the bubble: if you go south of here, the winters are milder and the gator population strives, if you go north of here, the winters are colder but you have no gators.
Racial tension is very low as far as I can tell.

 

[playaman]

If you can stand exposure to ebola and other terrible things about which REWahoo writes, consider East Texas ... Tyler, Longview, etc. Beautiful lakes, rolling forested land, low housing prices, lots of rain and well inland (away from hurricanes and such). Mild winters, hot summers... but fairly high humidity compared to Western Canada.
Small University of Texas campus in Tyler, Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches, otherwise not much in terms of higher education institutions...

 

[REWahoo]

Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches...

Home of virgin pines and tall women.

 

[Lakedog]

Not sure about the accuracy of some of the "gator" data being provided here but I live on a large, clean lake (Lake Martin) in central Alabama about 45 miles northeast of Montgomery (and 2 hours southwest of Atlanta), and there are zero gators in this part of the world. Gators have been reported in the Alabama River south of Montgomery but not north of the coastal plain region. This area seems to meet the criteria on your list and real estate is very affordable, except on the lake.

 

[FIREd]

Proof of the presence of Alligators in Northern Alabama:

Here: Wheeler NWR | Southeast Region (Huntsville-Decatur-Athens, AL)
Here: See ya later, alligator? Gator sightings in Decatur (near Decatur, AL)
and Here: Corsicana Daily Sun, Corsicana, Texas - Alligators spotted in northern Alabama (again near Decatur-Athens, AL)

I read somewhere that they were introduced in the area to reduce the beaver population. When people complained about it, they only could capture a small number of the gators they had released. As I said, not a huge population, but they're here all right! Personally I don't worry too much about it, I was swimming in lake wheeler near Athens last week-end and saw plenty of other people doing the same.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

'Course, ya'll are aware that there are more water moccasins in southern lakes than 'gators, aren't ya? Oh, and be reeeeal careful when you go to clean the strainer in the swimming pool.

I lived in the American south about half of my working life. I ain't fixin' to go back any time soon.

Beaudreau da Gypsy

 

[Grizz]

Not sure about the accuracy of some of the "gator" data being provided here but I live on a large, clean lake (Lake Martin) in central Alabama about 45 miles northeast of Montgomery (and 2 hours southwest of Atlanta), and there are zero gators in this part of the world. Gators have been reported in the Alabama River south of Montgomery but not north of the coastal plain region. This area seems to meet the criteria on your list and real estate is very affordable, except on the lake.

I guess real estate value all about what you're accustomed to. I looked at some waterfront Lake Martin listings, and it looks like $400K will get you a pretty nice place. The equivalent here would go for more like $750-$850K,(amazing where an oil boom will send prices) AND ITS FROZEN OVER FROM NOV-APR, and not very clear for the rest.

45 mins to the nearest city is a bit far for me though. Are there any sizeable towns with good amenities that are closer? Can the lake be used for waterskiing in winter if we used wetsuits?

 

[Grizz]

If you can stand exposure to ebola and other terrible things about which REWahoo writes, consider East Texas ... Tyler, Longview, etc. Beautiful lakes, rolling forested land, low housing prices, lots of rain and well inland (away from hurricanes and such). Mild winters, hot summers... but fairly high humidity compared to Western Canada.
Small University of Texas campus in Tyler, Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches, otherwise not much in terms of higher education institutions...

Actually already have Tyler on my short list of places to check out. Is it terribly gloomy and overcast in winter? You can probably sense that I like a fair bit of sun. Thanks

 

[heyyou]

If your new place doesn't freeze in winter, expect plenty of bugs and reptiles. What is normal to a local, may not be acceptable to you. Having kayaked in the winter in Arizona, I'm sure your can waterski anywhere with the right equipment e.g. a drysuit over fleece.
Joe

 

[haha]

Actually already have Tyler on my short list of places to check out. Is it terribly gloomy and overcast in winter? You can probably sense that I like a fair bit of sun. Thanks

If a westerner can afford the west he should stay in the west. Other places are fine if you are from there, but not too nice compared with the mountain west or the west coast.

Ha

 

[unclemick]

Send them to the coast(any coast) - the Missouri Ozarks are already too discovered.

My sister called me the other day from yet another I-5 traffic jam south of Seattle - 58 and still working heh heh heh.

You ain't getting me back to the PacNW after I've lived in New Orleans - except in chains.

heh heh heh - of course never say never again. In thirty years I learned to love 'da swamp'. Now it's back in the hills time again(above the mighty Missouri floodplain). First 26 in the PacNW, 4 in Denver,2 in Huntsville AL, 30 in New Orleans - bogey the Midwest for a while - and then? and then? the desert? We'll see. I know a few Arizona/Washington types from my high school class - ?wetbirds in contrast to snowbirds? How about a few bars of this land is your land? Got a little RV itch? - eh. Tough decisions in ER.

 

[Lakedog]

I guess real estate value all about what you're accustomed to. I looked at some waterfront Lake Martin listings, and it looks like $400K will get you a pretty nice place. The equivalent here would go for more like $750-$850K,(amazing where an oil boom will send prices) AND ITS FROZEN OVER FROM NOV-APR, and not very clear for the rest.

45 mins to the nearest city is a bit far for me though. Are there any sizeable towns with good amenities that are closer? Can the lake be used for waterskiing in winter if we used wetsuits?

$400,000 is about the entry point for smaller homes that are typically cabins, more than 45 minutes from Montgomery, and/or have only seasonal water. The lake is over 40,000 acres and about 30 miles from one end to the other so location also determines price with the homes closer to Montgomery being more expensive. To have year-round water (the lake drops 10 feet over the winter months), it will cost you at least $500,000 on the south end of the lake which is closest to Montgomery. Auburn (and Auburn University) is about 20 to 30 miles from various parts of the lake. I have a 1400 sqft house on the south end of the lake with year-round water and it would sell for over $600k in the current market.

Winter waterskiing is doable with a wetsuit, and the lake gets very little use from Labor Day through early April (my favorite time to be on the lake).

 

[Grizz]

$400,000 is about the entry point for smaller homes that are typically cabins, more than 45 minutes from Montgomery, and/or have only seasonal water. The lake is over 40,000 acres and about 30 miles from one end to the other so location also determines price with the homes closer to Montgomery being more expensive. To have year-round water (the lake drops 10 feet over the winter months), it will cost you at least $500,000 on the south end of the lake which is closest to Montgomery. Auburn (and Auburn University) is about 20 to 30 miles from various parts of the lake. I have a 1400 sqft house on the south end of the lake with year-round water and it would sell for over $600k in the current market.

Winter waterskiing is doable with a wetsuit, and the lake gets very little use from Labor Day through early April (my favorite time to be on the lake).

Just to be clear, when you say that the water drops 10 feet in winter, you mean that you gain 10 feet of shoreline, not actually lose 10 feet of depth, right? Also, again comfortable water temperature is about what you are accustomed to, and I'm guessing that the water temps that we are accustomed to here would probably make your Sept.-Apr. water temp seem like home.

To be honest though, if I were a full timer there, the $600K for a decent waterfront place would seem like a bargain, but as a second home/winter getaway, yikes! I'll spend some more time looking at maps and checking weather and demographic stats for the area. Lakefront is nice, but even a nice place nearby with good public access to a clean lake would suffice. Any small communities nearby? (I'm thinking 10 min. drive) Also, is there a significant tourist or seasonal employment draw such that I'd have a hope of renting it out during the summer months?

 

[Grizz]

If a westerner can afford the west he should stay in the west. Other places are fine if you are from there, but not too nice compared with the mountain west or the west coast.

Ha

You could be right, but I gotta see it to believe it. Who knows, I may be a Southeasterner at heart. Sometimes a place just feels right, even if all of my preconceived ideas of perfection aren't met 100%.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Charleston, SC is lovely, but we do have gators, sharks, and snakes. But those are just the lawyers....Lots of folks move here for the weather and the cultural amenities.
Sarah

 

[Dawg52]

We have some here in central MS. At the local reservoir. I used to let my dog go swimming in it but was advised not to. Never seen any but read an article in the local paper that there are 200-300 in it.

 

[Lakedog]

Just to be clear, when you say that the water drops 10 feet in winter, you mean that you gain 10 feet of shoreline, not actually lose 10 feet of depth, right? Also, again comfortable water temperature is about what you are accustomed to, and I'm guessing that the water temps that we are accustomed to here would probably make your Sept.-Apr. water temp seem like home.

To be honest though, if I were a full timer there, the $600K for a decent waterfront place would seem like a bargain, but as a second home/winter getaway, yikes! I'll spend some more time looking at maps and checking weather and demographic stats for the area. Lakefront is nice, but even a nice place nearby with good public access to a clean lake would suffice. Any small communities nearby? (I'm thinking 10 min. drive) Also, is there a significant tourist or seasonal employment draw such that I'd have a hope of renting it out during the summer months?

No, I mean actually lose 10 feet in depth and the shoreline gain depends on the steepness of your lot. I have a stationary pier and a floating dock -- the pier goes dry but the floater does stay in the water so I can leave my boat in all year. On the north end of the lake, there is a nice small town (Alexander City) and about 10 miles south of the lake is Tallassee, which is my mailing address. Very reasonable housing prices in both towns. Not sure about being able to rent out in the summer unless it is waterfront.

 

[Grizz]

No, I mean actually lose 10 feet in depth and the shoreline gain depends on the steepness of your lot. I have a stationary pier and a floating dock -- the pier goes dry but the floater does stay in the water so I can leave my boat in all year. On the north end of the lake, there is a nice small town (Alexander City) and about 10 miles south of the lake is Tallassee, which is my mailing address. Very reasonable housing prices in both towns. Not sure about being able to rent out in the summer unless it is waterfront.

Ok, it's becoming obvious that I need to learn about southern lakes first, and then worry about the real estate. Sheesh!, first alligators and now water can drop 10'. What causes it? Is this a common phenomenon in many lakes down there? If it drops 10' on a lake that big, how can it possibly re-fill without somebody needing to build an ark? I'm sure that it varies, but how deep are the lakes in general? Is it impossible to launch a boat at times due to the water level? Anything else that might surprise me that you can think of?

 

[Moemg]

Anything else that might surprise me that you can think of?

Sharks ,fire ants ,no seeums and my favorite love bugs .OOps I forgot roaches so big they are the family pet !

 

[theoldwizard]

My in-laws live in the northwest corner of North Carolina, near Cherokee . It is in the foothills of the Smokey Mountains so you have nice rolling hills. It does get below freezing sometimes at night, but if there is ever snow it is melted by noon.

Lakes don't freeze, but you would have to be pretty hearty to jet ski as the high temps in mid winter never get much above 60F. Actually there aren't many lakes in that part of NC. You have to go a bit west to TN or south to GA for some reservoirs which can be pretty low during the winter months.

You can definitely golf 12 month/year and housing isn't too ridiculous, unless you are looking at lakefront property

 

[Lakedog]

Ok, it's becoming obvious that I need to learn about southern lakes first, and then worry about the real estate. Sheesh!, first alligators and now water can drop 10'. What causes it? Is this a common phenomenon in many lakes down there? If it drops 10' on a lake that big, how can it possibly re-fill without somebody needing to build an ark? I'm sure that it varies, but how deep are the lakes in general? Is it impossible to launch a boat at times due to the water level? Anything else that might surprise me that you can think of?

Many southern lakes were built for power generation and flood control and almost all of them have lower winter levels for flood control purposes. Many TVA lakes (grew up on one in east TN) drop 20 to 30 feet in the winter. The lake I live on is an Alabama Power reservoir and begins dropping in September, reaching winter levels in December, and begins to rise in February, hitting full pool in April/May. Like you said earlier, it is all in what you are accustomed to --- ten feet seems like hardly anything after living on lakes that drop 25 feet or more. This is a deep lake (over 150 ft deep near the dam). Due to a severe drought this year, the lake is already down over ten feet and may go down 13-14 ft which is very unusual and happens maybe every 25 years or so. Public ramps are accessible all year long.

 

[Martha]

Sharks ,fire ants ,no seeums and my favorite love bugs .OOps I forgot roaches so big they are the family pet !

No kidding on the no-see-ums. Far worse than the alligators, sharks and roaches.

Moemg, I always enjoy reading your posts, but I am curious about something. You always have a space before, rather than after, a comma or a period. Any reason? Sorry, I just had to ask.

 

[Moemg]

No kidding on the no-see-ums. Far worse than the alligators, sharks and roaches.

Moemg, I always enjoy reading your posts, but I am curious about something. You always have a space before, rather than after, a comma or a period. Any reason? Sorry, I just had to ask.

The reason is I get confused ( blame it on Lipitor even if I do not take it ) where to put comas so I just adlib .Probably from 34 years of writing nurses notes.

 

[Grizz]

We get no-see-ums here too, but nothing that I'd call a real nuisance. Those critters are easily kept away with mosquito repellant. As far as the rest of my "learn about the Southern U.S." project goes, I get the feeling that I'm sort of like the city cousin going out to the farm and being way out of my element so I hope that you can all put yourself in my snowboots and imagine that it's really easy to become concerned with things like alligators, bizarre lake level fluctuations, huge angry insects, and snakes, things that perhaps a local would just take in stride. I also feel like all of the internet research in the world isn't going to matter much when it would appear that I can't relate on any level to many of the hazards and drawbacks of the south.

Maybe I need a different angle. Are there any of you who have spent time in both the N&S and can tell me what the things are that you found to be the most different? Everything from how people behave to insurance prices, frequency and types of natural disasters, what things to look for during a home inspection that I might not have to worry about here(no A/C jokes please), shopping, property taxes, quality of roads, anything at all. Thanks

 

[haha]

Maybe I need a different angle. Are there any of you who have spent time in both the N&S and can tell me what the things are that you found to be the most different? Everything from how people behave to insurance prices, frequency and types of natural disasters, what things to look for during a home inspection that I might not have to worry about here(no A/C jokes please), shopping, property taxes, quality of roads, anything at all. Thanks

This is like asking are there any differences between Alberta and Quebec. Of course there are, and they cannot be explained on a bulletin board.

I was born and graduated high school in the South, and lived almost all the rest of my life in the North. Lots of differences, but even after a lifetime I am not sure which I like best.

People are outwardly much more friendly in the South. Not too many waitresses in Seattle or Vancouver gonna call me sugar, but it can happen fo' sure south of the M-D, even in big cities.

Ha