Do You Talk With Friends about FIRE?

[Larro Darro]

My mother was the only one I talked money with when I was younger. We never really talked about ER, but about FI. I knew about compounding when I was in Jr High. But after the Navy, I semi-retired at age 22 for a few years. So when I met my DW at 28, I had no savings. But I was tired of the broke life, so we have had our noses to the grindstone ever since.

All my coworkers are broke, and plan to work until they die. I make the least of any of them, and we are nearly FI. The part time fellow does like to talk money, but it is more the woe is me kind of thing. {2 ex-wives and 1 refi} He makes $60K at his real job, which is a lot for the sticks here, yet he is paycheck to paycheck. They know we are savers, but not how much.

I don't talk numbers with anyone, but since my wife is an elected official, people can find out what her half of everything is worth. Most don't think to do it. {Thank the Lord.} Also thank the Lord she will not be running again. We have to tell little white lies of omission all the time. When our Prius was five years old, someone said they knew we were glad to have an end to the car payments. Instead of saying we had paid cash, we just said, yea, it's going to be nice.

The one person I talk to now about saving and investing is a friend who owns a pawn shop. He worked in a Swiss Investment Bank before coming here. His FIL, along with one of his buddies, owned the pawn shop. It was more of a hobby to them than a real business. My Swiss friend had soon bought out both partners, and turned it around. Now he makes so much money off check loans he is FI and talks about RE. He is training his son to take over the business, and he does stay home a day every now and then. I enjoy talking with him, but since I have a bad gun collecting habit, going into pawn shops gets me off my LBYM goals.

 

[ShortInSeattle]

Just curious, what is the subject matter of the class you are teaching?

It's a freshman orientation class. Note taking, writing, critical thinking, basic personal finance. The latter gives me an in.

 

[urn2bfree]

Another one of our friends is part of a DINK couple, who make well over $200k together. They met with some financial advisor, and came back and said "Our advisor says that we need at least $8M to retire. Looks like we'll be working for quite awhile!". .

Let me guess... That "financial advisor" gets paid by a percentage of the assets under management? Of course he is going to suggest $8 million, that is absurd...how is that even possible? If the advisor is thinking a conservative 2.5% WR, that comes out to $200,000 a year, so presumably they are going to plan on spending A LOT MORE than they currently do, since they currently make around $200,000 and more of that has to be going to taxes than it should in retirement AND they have to save some of the $200,000 a year to build up their $8 million stash. If they withdraw the same in retirement their buying power will be that much greater..maybe they would need that much but it seems unusual.

My ER plan is just starting to trickle out around my professional circle this week and it is interesting to hear the reactions. From a few mostly non physicians I get the "why" question, but from almost every fellow physician and most others it is only the "how" question. So many fellow physicians cannot wait to get out, if only they could. If my experience is any indicator, medicine is in trouble. BIG TROUBLE. I always sort of thought my ER was a function of my own idiosyncrasies interacting with some rather fundamental changes taking place in medicine over the last 20 years. Maybe my FI affords me the luxury of indulging my thin skin nature about these changes, but a huge number of MD's share a lot of my consternation and at least give lip service to the idea that these changes are enough to drive a lot of them to contemplate other avenues of employment if ER is not feasible.

 

[Lagniappe]

I told several of my friends of my plans for ER. Some of them asked for help on how, but never got further than figuring out how much they needed to maintain their current lifestyle. They were intimidated by the number, and rather than work on reducing the cost of their lifestyle they chose to believe it was not something they could attain. If they believe it is true, it is. I believed I could adjust my budget (needs) and my savings, and I did.

Most of them made fun of me ("if its not in the spreadsheet, she's not doing it", etc) until last year when I retired at 47. Now people are asking "How can you afford to NOT work?"

 

[scrabbler1]

Now people are asking "How can you afford to NOT work?"

I'd rather have others asking me this question than asking myself, as I did several times a day in my final few years of working, "Why am I still working here?" Being able to end ever asking myself that question has been a big benefit to my ER.

 

[healthyandfun]

I stumbled upon a colleague who lent me the Your Money Or Your Life, Joe Dominguez cassette tape system way back in the '90's for which I will be eternally grateful. It was an eye opener for me and the beginning of a beautiful friendship. We still discuss financial issues on occasion and are both on the verge of FIRE. Another friend who was far ahead of me in age and in the process, discussed financial issues openly which showed me what was possible. Otherwise, most people don't get it. I recently told two friends I was thinking of retiring. One said I was too young ( I'm late 50's) and the other told me she had regretted retiring. I politely changed the subject because I didn't want to hear more. I realized that the negative reaction was their baggage not mine. I treasure the friends who openly discuss financial issues, but realize it can never be a part of most friendships..

 

[Major Tom]

Now people are asking "How can you afford to NOT work?"

From time to time, I pinch myself and find the thought that I can survive without working very novel. It's a neat feeling. Sometimes when I think about it, it seems a bit like magic!

 

[Al in Ohio]

I think the reason this forum exists and is so popular is that it is difficult to find like minded people. I can't think of one person in my life who has any interest in discussing early retirement, LBYM, investing, etc. We really are a true minority.

I am in my early 50's and many of our friends are 45-50 and when I mention my goals of ER at 55 I get a blank stare like something's wrong with me. Some ask probing questions like "are you going to sell your house to survive" ? It would be so nice to personally know of like minded folks, but its just so surprisingly rare.

 

[Al in Ohio]

Though, I haven't specifically talked with them about it, my in-laws retired at age 51 (or 52?). So, they probably would understand.

They sound like they could be a great resource for you and the topic in common might form a tighter relationship.

 

[mpeirce]

I've had similar experiences to many here - most people simple don't want to talk about it.

A few folks I've talked had the "how in the world can you do that" response. In those cases it almost always turns out that they spend all (or more!) than they make. They also have convinced themselves that something (the "bad economy", the other political side (either one!), or just good old "bad luck") is conspiring against them. They really want to think that it's impossible for anyone to get ahead. Otherwise, they'd have to look inward to see why they can't do it.

 

[cranberryjoe]

I have been discussing financial topics with one friend for about 25 years. He is 10 years older than me, and retired in his early/mid 50's (though not by choice - dim job prospects made him decide to cut expenses and declare himself retired).

When I announced my upcoming ER, the most common word from my co-workers has been "jealous". I've had private conversations with a few who asked how I did it. Many seem to only have money in 401k's, plus the modest megacorp pension that was frozen long ago, so they don't know how they would survive before 59.5.

In the years leading up to the 2000 tech bust, many of us at work talked finances, but usually it was "did you see how high the company stock rose yesterday" and "how much of your 401k is in company stock?". It was surprising how many had more than 50% in company stock, and some had 100%. They learned a hard lesson when the company stock plummeted 90% over a short period.

 

[Redbugdave]

If you put yourself in the other's place...think about it...they are imprisoned to their jobs. That means hanging on in the ups and downs and not being laid off and putting up with the BS because they have no choice in their minds. That's because they are paying on cars, houses, kid's school, credit cards, and all the trappings they must have to live to survive. Not ever getting ahead and living month to month. Probably getting "gifts" from the grandparents to keep the kids in good schools.

And here someone comes along they know-and says they are FI and will not have to ever work anymore. It does not matter if the company goes under you are working at or the economy goes flat...you can just walk away and go fishing or golfing the rest of your life. La-de-da.

Putting it into perspective...what would you say if you were on the other side of the fence? "How'd you manage that?" or "You always looked so poor I always wondered what kind of salary you made and what you did with your money"?

 

[pletal]

Can't really talk to anybody except my parents about FI or where we are with our money. Blank stares or telling us money isn't everything. It's not but when I retire in 3 years at fifty, we will be able to draw out at least 200k for the next thirty years. It's been a long road. Cannot wait. Very happy to be on the forum. They are always telling me I work too much, that I need to slow down. In 36 months I'll be taking their advice.

 

[Ready]

It's a freshman orientation class. Note taking, writing, critical thinking, basic personal finance. The latter gives me an in.

OK...I was afraid you were going to say biology, or something like that, in which case, it would be a little weird. Makes perfect sense for an intro to college class though!

 

[inky]

I'm lucky in that my dad and younger brother are both very interested in passive investing and LBYM. My brother is also working towards an early retirement, so we spend a lot of time discussing FIRE.

I would love to discuss my plans with close friends, but have learned that it generally isn't a good idea. I shared some details with one friend who was not as discreet with them as I would have wished; not maliciously, just thoughtlessly. Many of my other friends either do not earn much or live above their means and it feels insensitive to talk about early retirement since that is so far out of the realm of possibility for them.

Ditto for my coworkers who I imagine will be very curious and possibly envious and resentful. I'm planning to retire at 44 or 45 and I'm sure the questions when I leave will be awkward, unless I transition to some kind of part-time role doing software for my dad's company, which is a possibility. What I'm currently planning to say is that I'm taking a year off to travel and reevaluate my options.

 

[Sesq]

The worst part is the taboo prevents us from talking about it while there is still time for choices to pay dividends.

 

[FIYes]

Twenty years ago, I had lunch most days with two colleagues who were about ten years older and better off financially. We all brown bagged it and walked for exercise. They often talked about stocks for the long term and LBYM. I learned quite a lot from them. We all retired in our fifties. Our discussions were very general, but beneficial to me.

I have a friend now who is about ten years younger and still working. When she brings up the topic I provide encouragement and very limited, very general advice (along the lines of...early retirement is much more fun than replacing a 3 year old car). I always wait for to bring up the topic. I figure people will hear what they are ready to hear.

 

[Calgary_Girl]

Not so much but I think we're more likely to talk about money with friends who are doing as well as (or better than us) so that we don't give the impression that we're "rubbing it in". I have one friend who thinks we "are rich" based on the location that we live in and our house and to that friend I just try to give financial bits of advice since I think her and her husband make poor financial choices :-(

My parents know that we are doing alright but my inlaws are in the dark because they are clueless when it comes to money and I wouldn't put it past my FIL to ask us for money if he knew how much we had.

 

[Willers]

Most of them made fun of me ("if its not in the spreadsheet, she's not doing it", etc) until last year when I retired at 47. Now people are asking "How can you afford to NOT work?"

+1 I recently received a less than friendly response from a friend that wanted to schedule a Christmas trip to Jamaica (to a resort we'd visited with them two years earlier). I explained that we devoted our vacation budget to other trips to places we haven't yet visited and got a "you and that Quicken program can be no fun" response. I'm hoping to be "more fun" when I retire in two years.

 

[Retire2035]

The main reason I joined this forum is because it is difficult to find close friends to talk about this. This topic was brought up at dinner the other night and I found that most of my friends had done very little in this area. Or if they had they did not seem to want to discuss much.
One friend is expectiing a large inheritance as his plan
Another had all his money in savings bc his employer does not match 401k so he did not put it into any investment accoutns.
Another has a very small percentage in a number fast food chains - I think he is doing pretty well.

This topic is challenging with friends because imo because people dont want to expose what they truly make. They dont want to be ranked or judged based on what they are doing. This forum allows you to join like minded people and still have that level anonymity. That is why I joined and am very pleased with all the value I have recieved thus far.

 

[Unpaintedhuffhines]

Agree with everyone that this is a great place. It's uncomfortable having frank discussions about money most of the time, even with your closest friends. I think a big reason for that is even if we try and avoid it, there will always be a comparison going on, and some might be jealous that you have "won life's lottery" as one of my friends put it.

I'm pulling the ripcord at the end of this year, and I have found it much easier to say I'm taking a career break of at least a year to figure out what I am going to do with the rest of my life. Which is true, but Phase Two may not include work in the traditional sense. It's such a relief when you realize that you "have enough."

 

[SJ1_]

Ok Young Dreamers,
''
So our problem when we were in our late 20s and early 30s was that we had nobody to talk to about finance, retirement expectations, saving money, debt management etc. ..
Most of our friends during their 20s and through their current age still are not saving for retirement. I stopped talking about things like emergency funds, withdrawal rates, Roth vs. regular IRAs with friends and family over ten years ago. ..
.

I found the same exact thing when I was in my 30's and it never changed.
(I'm 61 now) . Very few people live below their means.

 

[brewer12345]

I gave up on all that years ago. The problem I am running into now is that I am quietly letting close friends know that I am planning on bailing early next year and have only vague plans as to what I will do next. The inevitable question I get is either what job will you get next, or what will you do for money/health insurance? Um...

 

[Which Roger]

I'm pulling the ripcord at the end of this year, and I have found it much easier to say I'm taking a career break of at least a year to figure out what I am going to do with the rest of my life. Which is true, but Phase Two may not include work in the traditional sense. It's such a relief when you realize that you "have enough."

That's what I've been doing, too. I tell people "I'm too young to retire, but I'm not too young to take a break", and most of them seem to at least sort of understand.

 

[Larro Darro]

My part time coworker came in tonight for a couple of hours. He was telling me his son just bought an ATV for $7.7K. That gave him the fever, and he is looking into the UTV's sold at Home Depot for $4K. The main thing he will use it for is to carry a deer three or four hundred yards from his tree stand to his truck. He is proud of himself for not buying the more expensive one. What I was thinking, {but didn't say} was that he could carry a deer with a $30 wheelbarrow. That $4K, if he buys it, will just be added to his credit card debt.

Most folks are not like we are.