Spilling the beans

[Gazingus]

I'm dressing for my annual review this past week and I keep telling myself, "don't talk about FIRE at the review". I'm repeating it like a mantra. I'm FIRED up right now and the goal is to leave before 50 with 30 years of service so I'm having a hard time keeping the subject out of my conversation.

So anyway, I end up at lunch with my boss and his boss. Everything's going great, we're talking business and football, yada-yada. Over dessert, I pop out with "do y'all know about SEPP withdrawals?" Blank stares.

Me: "You can access your 401k and IRA savings without penalty BEFORE 591/2"!
My boss: "Why would you want to do that"?
Me: So you can retire early.
Mb: Oh.
Me: Doh!

Oh, well. I also let him know at my review that I was working here because this is where I want to be at this time. I no longer feel like I have to stay here until 55 when I would be eligible for the pension. This has done a lot for my attitude; knowing that I'm very close to achieving the formula. It would be manageable even now.

However, I have to quit talking about it at work.

 

[W2R]

I'm dressing for my annual review this past week and I keep telling myself, "don't talk about FIRE at the review". I'm repeating it like a mantra. I'm FIRED up right now and the goal is to leave before 50 with 30 years of service so I'm having a hard time keeping the subject out of my conversation.

So anyway, I end up at lunch with my boss and his boss. Everything's going great, we're talking business and football, yada-yada. Over dessert, I pop out with "do y'all know about SEPP withdrawals?" Blank stares.

Me: "You can access your 401k and IRA savings without penalty BEFORE 591/2"!
My boss: "Why would you want to do that"?
Me: So you can retire early.
Mb: Oh.
Me: Doh!

Oh, well. I also let him know at my review that I was working here because this is where I want to be at this time. I no longer feel like I have to stay here until 55 when I would be eligible for the pension. This has done a lot for my attitude; knowing that I'm very close to achieving the formula. It would be manageable even now.

However, I have to quit talking about it at work.

That was a great story.

In my case, a while back I happened to confide in a co-worker about my ER plans and timeframe. But then last month, she was promoted and became my boss! So much for keeping ER a secret from my boss.

 

[donheff]

Oh, well. I also let him know at my review that I was working here because this is where I want to be at this time. I no longer feel like I have to stay here until 55 when I would be eligible for the pension.

As long as you are staying there emphasizing the fact that you are staying because you like the work (for now) rather than because you have to is a sensible approach. Your boss may bend over backwards to keep you. When a couple of very good Cobol programmers were on the fence about retirement, I gave them retention bonuses. They stayed longer than I did

 

[Meadbh]

Or they can give you three year projects to do......

 

[armor99]

My attitude towards work in general, is to be assertive, but not a jerk about it. One of the nice things about working for a large company, is that in general, they do not want to go through the hassle of firing you. They will have no problem with a layoff where dozens go at the same time, but because of possible lawsuits etc, they really do NOT want to fire an individual if possible.
In most large companies it is actually difficult to fire someone. Raise your hands you managers out there and tell me if this sounds familiar. You start with a verbal warning... then a second verbal warning, then a written warning...etc...etc.. Most of the time when a manager wants to fire you, he we just transfer you to another department. Preferably one that he/she knows will be cut at some point in the future. Always valuable to know the rules of the game to give the players and edge.

 

[donheff]

In most large companies it is actually difficult to fire someone. Raise your hands you managers out there and tell me if this sounds familiar. You start with a verbal warning... then a second verbal warning, then a written warning...etc...etc.. Most of the time when a manager wants to fire you, he we just transfer you to another department. Preferably one that he/she knows will be cut at some point in the future. Always valuable to know the rules of the game to give the players and edge.

I spent 20 years in Federal HR and it always amused me how many people described the difficulty firing Federal employees as an anomaly that you would not find in the private sector. I think most of the comments came from people who never supervised or managed an organization - certainly not in a mid to large sized company. The reality is that, for many reasons, good and bad, most companies follow a process that roughly parallels what we did in the public sector. I once considered working as a consultant for a company that set up and administered such processes in the private sector.

 

[maddythebeagle]

Why are folks worried about OP being fired before being FIRED... I have actually seen a few bad employees simply moved around....but eventually fired by somebody that got tickled just a little too much....even had a few that were asked to quit, which I really dont get unless it really is causing some mental anguish....

 

[Gazingus]

I worried that if they became convinced that I was really leaving in 30 months, they would stop investing in me (raises and bonuses). That's probably not an issue, but I don't think I should be talking about my desire to bail in front of my reports, either.

 

[jazz4cash]

I spent 20 years in Federal HR and it always amused me how many people described the difficulty firing Federal employees as an anomaly that you would not find in the private sector. I think most of the comments came from people who never supervised or managed an organization - certainly not in a mid to large sized company. The reality is that, for many reasons, good and bad, most companies follow a process that roughly parallels what we did in the public sector. I once considered working as a consultant for a company that set up and administered such processes in the private sector.

While I agree there are similarities, One BIG difference in the private sector is thier ability to coerce salaried, non-union employees to quit 'voluntarily'.

 

[megacorp-firee]

In most large companies it is actually difficult to fire someone. Raise your hands you managers out there and tell me if this sounds familiar. You start with a verbal warning... then a second verbal warning, then a written warning...etc...etc.. Most of the time when a manager wants to fire you, he we just transfer you to another department. Preferably one that he/she knows will be cut at some point in the future. Always valuable to know the rules of the game to give the players and edge.

It used to be the way you described. In the last 5 years or so it's been a bit different. With the number of people being 'downsized', there has been little tolerence for someone not pulling their weight. But old management practices are hard to change. So yes, some of the old timers (those of who are left ) are cautiously slow when it comes to 'canning someone'.
Managers who transfer their problems are bad managers in the 1st place and become 'known'. Their 'candidates' get a bit more scrutiny when they are offered.

Always valuable to know the rules of the game to give the players and edge.

... and yes it is

 

[StJohnsWood]

Actually Gazingus this make work out to your advantage. You could get a retention bonus, or maybe a package to leave early, or they could think its your little dream and nothing more.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it at all.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

stick 2 football and BS. They r not worth ur time. Soz. Cats on hands. Can't type.

 

[Nords]

I worried that if they became convinced that I was really leaving in 30 months, they would stop investing in me (raises and bonuses). That's probably not an issue, but I don't think I should be talking about my desire to bail in front of my reports, either.

Maybe, but now they also know that you're not hostage to your finances. They can't depend on your lifestyle to keep you dragging your debts to your cubicle, so they actually have to take an interest in your morale. They might even have to treat you with a measure of respect & consideration.

Besides they had no idea what you were talking about with all those "SEPPs" & "withdrawals" and other icky-sounding words. Much better to stick to simple subjects like the college-football bowl championship system.

Actually Gazingus this make work out to your advantage. You could get a retention bonus, or maybe a package to leave early, or they could think its your little dream and nothing more.
Personally I wouldn't worry about it at all.

I think you've hit it right in the sweet spot, planted a seed, and can stop talking about it. A few years from now you'll look like Machiavelli or a grandmaster tinkering with his chess pieces.

At least one of this board's ERs had made his boss aware of his general plans and was quietly marshaling his ER resignation. Nearly a year before he was expecting to ER, his boss just as quietly suggested that he get ready to volunteer for an imminent yet unpublicized downsizing. A few days later when the grenade was dropped he yelled "Banzai!!" and leaped on it. His sacrifice was rewarded with heaping severance benefits. Everyone got a victory out of that situation, especially his co-workers who appreciated his "taking one for the team".

So just be ready for your boss to have a quiet conversation with you during the next 30 months. Worst case is that nothing will happen.

 

[Milton]

At least one of this board's ERs had made his boss aware of his general plans and was quietly marshaling his ER resignation. Nearly a year before he was expecting to ER, his boss just as quietly suggested that he get ready to volunteer for an imminent yet unpublicized downsizing. A few days later when the grenade was dropped he yelled "Banzai!!" and leaped on it. His sacrifice was rewarded with heaping severance benefits. Everyone got a victory out of that situation, especially his co-workers who appreciated his "taking one for the team".

What a great outcome!

 

[Marquette]

I love the story. I'm a champion at putting my foot in my mouth at work so I know the feeling all too well.

I'm probably either a jerk or naive about it, but I make FIRE goals part of my yearly performance and development goals for my job. For example, on of my short-term personal development goals for last year was to save at least 20% of my salary and one of my long-term goals was to retire by the time I was 50.

So, technically, my boss, his boss, and HR all know that I plan to RE. Then again, I'm in IT and we're not exactly known for our tenure at any given company so maybe it's a wash in the end.

 

[LOL!]

This thread makes me recall a similar thread that started last summer: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f30/upcoming-performance-review-truth-consequences-29707.html

I have engineered a segue out of my responsibilities in the next year. It's been kinda strange in that I am not asked to go to any meetings anymore, but I can't really complain. I worked out that I will go to about 30 hours a week in a few months, then play it by ear after that. I am in the knowledge-transfer phase. It's been quite enjoyable because I forgot how much I really knew and it's all coming back to me now.

But in a subtle hint that they still want me around, we had a new group photo of all 200 employees taken a month ago that's prominently displayed in our lobby. Rather than banishing me to the back, I am standing in the front row right next to our CEO.

 

[Milton]

But in a subtle hint that they still want me around, we had a new group photo of all 200 employees taken a month ago that's prominently displayed in our lobby. Rather than banishing me to the back, I am standing in the front row right next to our CEO.

That's pretty classy of them.

 

[deserat]

Nords comment about them knowing that you don't depend on them for your lifestyle costs is spot on - I've let a few people know that I work there right now because I want to (sort of), not because I have to. I'm not ready to ER just yet (need some more savings), but if I have to leave because it's gottenout of hand, Ihave enough to tide me over for a *long* time if need be. It has helped cut down on the BS and unprofessional behavior towards me. I don't tolerate it---and the corporation right now needs me more than I need them. Great position to be in, frankly.

 

[Meadbh]

Nords comment about them knowing that you don't depend on them for your lifestyle costs is spot on - I've let a few people know that I work there right now because I want to (sort of), not because I have to. I'm not ready to ER just yet (need some more savings), but if I have to leave because it's gottenout of hand, Ihave enough to tide me over for a *long* time if need be. It has helped cut down on the BS and unprofessional behavior towards me. I don't tolerate it---and the corporation right now needs me more than I need them. Great position to be in, frankly.

And speaking of unprofessional behavior: in my experience, the small minority of people most likely to act unprofessionally are those who have essential skills, are already financially well set, and are narcissists with large egos. That combination sometimes leads them to think it's OK to be abusive to others who have fewer options.

In healthcare, a disproportionate number of these people are surgeons.

But I'm sure that doesn't apply to any member of this forum!

 

[growing_older]

If I had a boss who was trustworthy, I'd be interested in letting him/her know my plans well in advance so we could plan how to make it all work out. But that isn't my current situation and rarely has been in my career. I'm pretty certain that if I talk about FIRE, they will confuse it with disloyalty and I'll never see an interesting or important project again. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they move quickly to eliminate my position and transfer the work to others. No way am I bringing this up until I am really ready.

 

[dex]

First I told my boss that I was looking for a position outside the company. Then I told him I wasn't really looking but will be retiring. I gave a tentative date so he could find a replacement but I didn't put it in writing. The day before I was to put the two weeks notice in writing I broke my collar bone. I stayed for another 6 weeks or so to go through the surgery and recovery. Much better working than sitting at home while I healed.

 

[KM]

I suspect it is really situation and career dependent. My boss knows that I plan to retire in 5 years, at age 55. But he also knows that 1) I can and will leave earlier if it gets bad, 2) it would be in my interest to keep working until at least 55, 3) I might change my mind in 5 years, depending on life's situations. That gives him enough motivation to try and keep me happy.

I always tried to set myself up to "not have to stay where I am", if it got too bad. I remember too many people my parents age losing their jobs in the early 70s and I said then, I will never allow myself to be in a situation where I lose everything if I lose my job. Hence we have always lived comfortably (imho), but well below our means. I want them to need me more than I need them.

I think my boss envies me.

 

[GoodSense]

Sometimes I tell people I work with that I only plan to work into my 40s, and they just think I'm kidding and laugh at me.

If I have achieved FI, I won't think it's a big deal to let my boss know that I can leave any time. When I RE (which is still 15 years away), I plan to let my boss know 6 months ahead of time to give them time to hire a new person. (Yes, it does take the government that long to hire someone sometimes). On the other hand, in my agency, there seems to be more respect towards those who can retire but are still there. Quite a few old timers are known to be "one bad phone call away from retirement," so people treat them pretty nicely.

 

[deserat]

Meadbh said:And speaking of unprofessional behavior: in my experience, the small minority of people most likely to act unprofessionally are those who have essential skills, are already financially well set, and are narcissists with large egos. That combination sometimes leads them to think it's OK to be abusive to others who have fewer options.

In healthcare, a disproportionate number of these people are surgeons.

But I'm sure that doesn't apply to any member of this forum!

Thanks goodness I'm not a surgeon! Actually, I am in healthcare and the people who have been most abusive have been people in the administration who are very unhappy - I've been fortunate to not have any MDs treat me poorly and only one RN who was unhappy with the message I had to deliver. And so far, most consider me very professional - it's that military formality - sir, ma'am and Mr/Ms/Dr unless asked to become informal. What I don't take too well is threats to call my boss - huh? I gave them my phone number and said to feel free - I keep my boss informed of all.

As for being financially secure - I've found a lot of MDs are not...they've allowed their lifestyles to match or exceed their salaries. What has amazed me is the number of MDs married to MDs who are 'strapped' for cash - one cardiologist I worked with was bemoaning his wife's taste in houses and rebuilding them - and she's a double boarded physician herself in genetics and perinatology - whew!

 

[megacorp-firee]

And speaking of unprofessional behavior: in my experience, the small minority of people most likely to act unprofessionally are those who have essential skills, are already financially well set, and are narcissists with large egos. That combination sometimes leads them to think it's OK to be abusive to others who have fewer options.

IMO, that is NOT the reason they act that way.

In healthcare, a disproportionate number of these people are surgeons.

It's the 'god complex' that some (MD's) have developed. I've seen this with some CEO's, high level executives, ... and other people in power, but to a lesser degree.