Coronavirus - Health aspects

[NW-Bound]

How about those innovative mask ideas?

View attachment 33857

Some of these were a joke to mock the current virus scare, particularly the cabbage mask.

 

[audreyh1]

Thank goodness - US citizens are about to be evacuated from the Diamond Princess. They face another 14 day quarantine, of course, since they were stuck in a place with constant virus exposure. But at least they will be out of that unhealthy exposure environment.

Those who have symptoms and thus can’t board the US Embassy chartered plane on Feb 16 will have to remain in Japan for treatment. Those who do return to US soil will stay at military bases for the 14 day quarantine. There are currently still 428 US citizens on that ship.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/more-americans-quarantined-ship-will-be-offered-exit-n1137326

 

[MichaelB]

A short, easy to understand article that attempts to explain how COVID-19 affects the body and leads to severe outcomes in some cases. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...ew-coronavirus-disease-can-take-a-deadly-turn

More than 1,300 people, almost all in China, have now died from COVID-19 — the newly minted name for the coronavirus disease first identified in Wuhan, China, that has infected more than 55,000 people.

Yet according to the World Health Organization, the disease is relatively mild in about 80% of cases, based on preliminary data from China.

What does mild mean?

And how does this disease turn fatal?

 

[Nemo2]

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2018.00343/full

Back to the Future: Lessons Learned From the 1918 Influenza Pandemic

Thank you...superb article:

[Only people infected during the first “spring” wave of the pandemic acquired a protective immune response against the second, more virulent, “fall” wave of the 1918–19 pandemic.......//.........Conclusive evidence that protective influenza virus-specific antibody responses are indeed long-lived came from the 2009 influenza pandemic. Here, elderly people who were exposed to the 1918 influenza virus (or its immediate descendant), 60–90 years prior to the pandemic of 2009, were protected from infection and severe disease, as they maintained the antibody response that cross-reacted with the 2009 pandemic strain

However, in order for a facemask to be at least partially effective against influenza virus it must be (i) worn at all times, (ii) properly made and fitted, and (iii) made of appropriate material. The surgical gauze masks of 1918 often failed to meet these criteria (Crosby, 1976). Thus, the mortality rate of Ontario, Canada (where wearing a mask was voluntary) was not significantly different from Alberta, Canada, (where mask wearing was enforced by law) (MacDougall, 2007). In fact, influenza deaths in Alberta continued to rise even after mask wearing was sanctioned by law, suggesting that in 1918 wearing a facemask was not sufficient to prevent deaths from influenza (World Health Organization Writing Group et al., 2006).

Proper hygiene (e.g., frequent hand washing) would also have helped limiting the spread of the influenza virus during the 1918 pandemic, as influenza viruses are transmissible via hand to face contact (World Health Organization Writing Group et al., 2006; Thomas et al., 2014). Thus, the Japanese traditional attitude to disease and illness might have contributed to a lower national pandemic mortality in 1918–19, as Japanese children are taught to remove their shoes and wash their hands upon re-entering the home (Rice and Palmer, 1993).

Unfortunately, antibodies elicited by seasonal influenza vaccines do not provide protection in the case of an antigenically distinct influenza virus of a novel subtype, such as A/H5N1 or A/H7N9 (De Jong et al., 2000). Furthermore, current inactivated seasonal influenza vaccines may even prevent the induction of cross-reactive CD8+ T cell responses, which are our primary protection in case of a pandemic outbreak and may therefore prove to be a double-edged sword

 

[tmm99]

Some of these were a joke to mock the current virus scare, particularly the cabbage mask.

Yeah, I figured that with the cabbage man as all the essential parts (eyes and the mouth) have no coverage, but I thought the whole thing was pretty humorous.

 

[Masquernom]

Sorry, couldn't post a link, so I have to post the whole article. Other people taking the precaution to cover up to heart.

Travelers in Beijing are wrapping themselves in plastic to avoid getting infected


Travelers in a Beijing train station on February 15, 2019. Natalie Thomas/CNN
With coronavirus cases continuing to rise in mainland China, many people are locking themselves at home. And those who do go out, aren't taking any chances.
The Beijing South Railway Station today is filled with travelers wearing face masks, lab goggles, plastic ponchos, plastic visors, and other creative means of shielding themselves from potential infection.

There isn't a single person in sight without a protective face mask. Natalie Thomas/CNN
Most people avoid sitting next to each other, instead sitting one or several empty seats away to minimize close contact.
Many are also wearing plastic and rubber gloves, and some form of head covering -- be it a hat, hood, or shower cap.

Travel has dropped across China as people stay home. Those who do go out, don't take any chances. Natalie Thomas/CNN

The extra precautions come as Beijing authorities order all people returning to the capital to stay at home, or under observation, for 14 days, in order to prevent the spread of the coronavirus, according to China’s state-run news agency Xinhua.

 

[Nemo2]

Some of these were a joke to mock the current virus scare, particularly the cabbage mask.

Now you tell me....right after I spent hours digging out my Jimmah Carter and Richard Nixon masks!

 

[cathy63]

Thank goodness - US citizens are about to be evacuated from the Diamond Princess. They face another 14 day quarantine, of course, since they were stuck in a place with constant virus exposure. But at least they will be out of that unhealthy exposure environment.

Those who have symptoms and thus can’t board the US Embassy chartered plane on Feb 16 will have to remain in Japan for treatment. Those who do return to US soil will stay at military bases for the 14 day quarantine. There are currently still 428 US citizens on that ship.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/more-americans-quarantined-ship-will-be-offered-exit-n1137326

I don't know, if I were on the Diamond Princess and asymptomatic, it would be a tough choice whether to get on that plane back to the U.S. to 14 more days of quarantine vs riding out the final 4 days on the ship and having it all be over. Of course anyone who's still asymptomatic after only 10 days of quarantine might be harboring the virus since the incubation period is not over, so you can't know if you're infected and you can't know if anyone else is infected either. Unless they test everyone before they leave the ship, at the current 5%+ infection rates for that population, it's likely that putting everyone in even closer quarters on a plane will expose them all to at least one person who is contagious.

I also wonder who's going to pay for this. The previous evacuations out of Wuhan were paid by the passengers at $1100 per person for the flights to San Diego and I think it's $250/day for room and board in the BOQ at MCAS Miramar. Then you have to pay to fly to your real home from there after it's over, so it's not cheap to go into quarantine in the U.S. and this could affect the decision for some of those on fixed incomes. (I read somewhere that it's illegal for the State Dept to absorb these costs, not sure if that's an actual law or just current policy though.) Princess will pay whatever costs people have to get home from Japan on commercial flights, but I'm not sure they'll pay for a second U.S. quarantine if passengers opt out of the first one.

 

[tmm99]

Thank goodness - US citizens are about to be evacuated from the Diamond Princess. They face another 14 day quarantine, of course, since they were stuck in a place with constant virus exposure. But at least they will be out of that unhealthy exposure environment.

Those who have symptoms and thus can’t board the US Embassy chartered plane on Feb 16 will have to remain in Japan for treatment. Those who do return to US soil will stay at military bases for the 14 day quarantine. There are currently still 428 US citizens on that ship.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/more-americans-quarantined-ship-will-be-offered-exit-n1137326

This should have happened long time ago IMHO. I'm sure Japan wouldn't have minded everyone being evacuated to where they came from, as I'm sure they would have struggled housing 3,600 passengers in isolation on their own land. But I'm sure nobody including the US realized this virus was going to spread the way it did on board. (For one, initially, we were told this virus was not contagious until symptoms were present, but it was later learned that that wasn't the case.).

I learned that the people in the quarantine in the US (Miramar Base) put together a petition, requesting certain conditions.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/health/coronavirus-quarantine-evacuee-petition-cdc/index.html

The evacuees then listed their requests. They started with the request to be tested and then added four more: Prevention of gatherings of large numbers of people in small, enclosed environments; delivery of personal protective gear to evacuees, including masks and sanitizing alcohol for room disinfection; provision of hand sanitizer at the front desk and playground; and disinfection two to three times a day of public areas, "including playground, laundry room, door knobs, etc."

I thought that the quarantine meant you're isolated from everyone 24x7, but from this article, it doesn't sound that way... As we now know that this virus seems to spread so easily, it's a good thing that the quarantined individuals in San Diego are speaking out (although testing everyone for the virus with the current unreliable PCR test is probably not going to be that helpful).

 

[Sunset]

I don't know, if I were on the Diamond Princess and asymptomatic, it would be a tough choice whether to get on that plane back to the U.S. to 14 more days of quarantine vs riding out the final 4 days on the ship and having it all be over. Of course anyone who's still asymptomatic after only 10 days of quarantine might be harboring the virus since the incubation period is not over, so you can't know if you're infected and you can't know if anyone else is infected either. Unless they test everyone before they leave the ship, at the current 5%+ infection rates for that population, it's likely that putting everyone in even closer quarters on a plane will expose them all to at least one person who is contagious.

I also wonder who's going to pay for this. The previous evacuations out of Wuhan were paid by the passengers at $1100 per person for the flights to San Diego and I think it's $250/day for room and board in the BOQ at MCAS Miramar. Then you have to pay to fly to your real home from there after it's over, so it's not cheap to go into quarantine in the U.S. and this could affect the decision for some of those on fixed incomes. (I read somewhere that it's illegal for the State Dept to absorb these costs, not sure if that's an actual law or just current policy though.) Princess will pay whatever costs people have to get home from Japan on commercial flights, but I'm not sure they'll pay for a second U.S. quarantine if passengers opt out of the first one.

So folks could take the flight, and then admit they don't have $3,500 pp to pay for quarantine, so we kick the deadbeats out ??

 

[cathy63]

So folks could take the flight, and then admit they don't have $3,500 pp to pay for quarantine, so we kick the deadbeats out ??

You have to sign a promissory note to the gov't before getting on the plane, so I guess your credit rating is impacted and maybe they confiscate your tax refunds until you're paid up?

Here's what some people are doing to scrape up the funds:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/wuhan-corona-virus
https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-corona-virus-evacuees-get-home
https://www.gofundme.com/f/4MaxS
https://www.gofundme.com/f/evacuated-starting-over-with-wife-and-newborn

 

[sengsational]

Nice graphic from the 1918 paper, posted earlier.

 

[audreyh1]

I don't know, if I were on the Diamond Princess and asymptomatic, it would be a tough choice whether to get on that plane back to the U.S. to 14 more days of quarantine vs riding out the final 4 days on the ship and having it all be over. Of course anyone who's still asymptomatic after only 10 days of quarantine might be harboring the virus since the incubation period is not over, so you can't know if you're infected and you can't know if anyone else is infected either. Unless they test everyone before they leave the ship, at the current 5%+ infection rates for that population, it's likely that putting everyone in even closer quarters on a plane will expose them all to at least one person who is contagious.

I also wonder who's going to pay for this. The previous evacuations out of Wuhan were paid by the passengers at $1100 per person for the flights to San Diego and I think it's $250/day for room and board in the BOQ at MCAS Miramar. Then you have to pay to fly to your real home from there after it's over, so it's not cheap to go into quarantine in the U.S. and this could affect the decision for some of those on fixed incomes. (I read somewhere that it's illegal for the State Dept to absorb these costs, not sure if that's an actual law or just current policy though.) Princess will pay whatever costs people have to get home from Japan on commercial flights, but I'm not sure they'll pay for a second U.S. quarantine if passengers opt out of the first one.

Your alternative is that you are stuck in Japan for a while. The State Department made that clear. I’m not sure there is an option to ride out 4 more days on the ship, and I suspect other people getting off will be subject to additional quarantine because those passengers are no way in the clear. No matter what - returning to the US you are going to be subject to 14 days of quarantine. The ship itself harbors the disease, so no way to be protected from it until you get off the darn ship! That ship has the highest number of infected outside of China, and way higher than any other country.

Travelers returning to the United States from high-risk areas are required to undergo quarantine," it said. "Accordingly, you will need to undergo further quarantine of 14 days when you arrive in the United States."

It also warned those who chose not to return would "be unable to return to the United States for a period."

US citizens on fixed incomes on a big ship cruise to Asia for which they’ll be reimbursed. I doubt they are strapped financially. It’s darn bad luck, but they’ll have to pay for it.

 

[NW-Bound]

Wuhan has stepped up the lockdown. Residents are now forbidden to go outside of their neighborhood, or enter a building that is not their housing. They can only leave their living quarter to seek medical help, or to provide public assistance. The order left out "getting food and supplies", and it was not known if it was an oversight (will food be delivered?).

And it was said that doctors were asking recovered patients to donate blood. It looks like they were looking to get the antibodies that these patients developed from the plasma.

 

[tmm99]

I also wonder who's going to pay for this. The previous evacuations out of Wuhan were paid by the passengers at $1100 per person for the flights to San Diego and I think it's $250/day for room and board in the BOQ at MCAS Miramar. .

Wow, I didn't know that. I thought the government was footing the bill, but I'm sure they don't want to set that kind of precedence in case this thing spreads and they have to house a lot more people. But $250/day? That's no chump change, especially if you have to stay for 14 days or longer!

I believe the Japanese government is planning to shoulder the charter flight bill for their evacuees from Wuhan. They initially said they were going to charge 70,000 yen (about $635), a price of the usual economy fare, but something happened (too many oppositions from a political party? No idea), and they changed the tune.

I wonder who is paying for the hospital bills in Japan for the Diamond Princess passengers? I hope it's not the passengers, as it's forced hospitalization.

 

[sengsational]

I wonder if training / exercise would help with survivability of this disease. Earlier, I had the idea that respiratory training might provide some of the benefits of exercise. Recently, with my planned trip to Peru, I learned that training with these things that restrict breathing do zero good for prevention of altitude sickness, but this post and the research paper in the OP of that thread suggest training might clear up lung issues that aren't a problem under normal conditions, but could contribute to problems under stressful conditions: https://www.early-retirement.org/fo...scle-strength-training-97521.html#post2227881

 

[explanade]

So nobody is using the emergency medical evacuation coverage?

 

[Sunset]

So nobody is using the emergency medical evacuation coverage?

For most plans, a person has to be in hospital, so all the folks on any ship don't qualify.
Then for all the plans I saw, a doctor has to decide it's better you leave and get treated in home country (usually) involving a 15 hour transport/flight.

So I'd say anyone in hospital in Japan has as good/better care than taking the risky flight and home hospital.

I wonder how hard it would be to get a team to fly infectious people vs the heart/stroke/broken leg patient.

 

[EveryLady]

So nobody is using the emergency medical evacuation coverage?

One of the American couples tried to use one of the specialized services that evacuates from dangerous situations. It was something like MedJet (not simple travel insurance). The company agreed but the Japanese nipped that idea in the bud.

My impression is that Japan also isn't going to allow folks to disembark on February 19th to wander around the country then board commercial flights.

Not clear what will happen to those American who don't accept the evacuation "offer" that comes with subsequent U.S. quarantine. Some Brits who haven't yet been made a similar offer are furious they don't have a similar opportunity.

 

[Bongleur]

Kinda humorous. Photo of the head of WHO meeting with Xi -- there is a good eight feet of space between them! scroll down...

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ghts-prevent-pandemic-without-offending-china

 

[gwraigty]

Remember that cruise ship that was turned away from 5 ports before Cambodia let it dock? Now an 83 year old American woman has tested positive after flying to Malaysia. Considering the saga of the Diamond Princess, no one could see this coming?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/16/coronavirus-latest-updates-china-death-toll-rises.html

Bolding mine.

4:40 pm: American from cruise ship tests positive for second time in Malaysia
An American woman who was previously aboard the MS Westerdam cruise ship in Cambodia has been tested positive after a second test for the coronavirus in Malaysia, local health authorities said Sunday. The results came after hundreds of passengers were already allowed to leave the ship, and authorities say that more than 140 of those passengers traveled through Malaysia’s Kuala Lumpur airport. Many of them traveled to onward destinations in the U.S., Europe and Australia, officials said.

The 83-year-old woman initially tested positive after landing in Kuala Lumpur from Cambodia, where the cruise ship had been docked. She was one of 2,257 passengers and crew and the first to test positive. The ship’s operator Carnival Cruises had asked for a second test to confirm the woman’s condition. Her husband has tested negative.

 

[NW-Bound]

There are more details about the Westerdam passengers on the travel thread about the virus.

The lock down in Wuhan has caused many heartbreaks that we do not think of. For example, many residents cannot get back to their home, and have pets dying in the home. It is estimated that 30,000 pets are left dying. A video on Youtube shows the effort of one man who, via direction of the locked-out homeowners, tries to get through locked doors to enter and feed the pets. With new stricter lock down orders prohibiting people from entering buildings that are not their residence, this man will not be able to continue his mission.

Even people are abandoned. A disabled son of a man who got quarantined died when he was left alone in the apartment. What a heart breaking story. Who knows how many cases like that?

I saw on Youtube videos of homes being barricaded, and even one steel door being welded shut from the outside by people in haz-mat suit. I guess the homeowners committed some transgression, and are now physically locked inside their home.

North Korea was said to have executed an official who disobeyed a quarantine order after returning from China, and visited a public bath.

 

[tmm99]

China scares me. Big time. (I expect something like that from NK though...)

 

[Masquernom]

Just saw a couple of news articles that surprised me. In India, they just set a new record for the most people performing some dance together. Something around 8,000 people dancing together.
In Japan, over 10,000 men crammed together in a temple for a "naked ritual". Actually wearing loin clothes and socks.
Sure hope there wasn't an infected person any either of these two gatherings.

 

[tmm99]

In Japan, over 10,000 men crammed together in a temple for a "naked ritual". Actually wearing loin clothes and socks.
Sure hope there wasn't an infected person any either of these two gatherings.

Absolutely insane. If I was the mayor, or whoever has the power to decide, I would have canceled the event altogether. All they did was placing alcohol-based disinfectants at the entrance and the exit where the event was held. Totally irresponsible IMHO.