DW Got Injured While Looking at a House for Sale; Are Homeowners Liable?

[ExFlyBoy5]

Homeowners are always liable.

Oye. This is not true. I could ramble for hours and hours on this subject but will keep it to myself.

Bottom line, if you think there is a chance that there is liability, contact a lawyer that IN YOUR JURISDICTION. Laws vary wildly across states and the answer to the OP's question can't be simply answered. Don't rely on the internet for legal advice.

Oh, one point I will make (and it may have been brought up, I haven't read the other posts)...when you submit your claim to the insurance company, the codes will probably trigger an "accident review" and the insurance company will probably seek out indemnification from the homeowner's insurance. This is pretty standard, so I would expect this. Whether you would want to sue or not, ultimately your health insurance may sue on your behalf. -NOT legal advice.

To the OP...hope all works out OK and your DW is doing better.

 

[meierlde]

Sorry for your travails.. Here's to a swift recovery.

I'd be surprised if you have any uncovered medical expenses, given Medicare and United Health.

And pain and suffering? I can't imagine it given the circumstances of this situation.

To boot medicare and UHC would be able to be reimbursed from any settlement. (subrogation https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Coordi...ew/Reimbursing-Medicare/Reimbursing-Medicare- ) Is she currently working i.e. is there any lost income involved? So while you could sue for medical expenses any recovery would go to the insurance carrier or medicare in this case. If there is no lost income then other then medical, it is not clear what the economic damages might be.

 

[Walt34]

This is exactly the reason we had our sidewalk in front of the house repaired (ours, not along the street) after part of it settled creating a 1/2" raised portion. I'd seen delivery people and the lawn guy stumble on it and I figured it was only a matter of time before someone fell.

I called a handyman who advertised small concrete jobs and it cost $200 about three or four years ago. I was so impressed that he broke up the two sunken sections with a sledge hammer instead of a jackhammer that I gave him an extra $40. That's doing it the hard way!

So I disagree with those who say "no case". I very clearly saw that there was a hazard to other people and I took steps to correct it.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

I’m curious - what was the impression of the house (other than the tripping incident)? Is/was it something you would put an offer on? With a drive of over 175 miles, there must have been something piquing your interest with the house. Can the incident be used as leverage to get a better deal on the house?

Leverage? I'm without words.

Wishing the OP's DW a speedy recovery!

 

[skipro33]

Sooner or later your medical insurance company will ask your wife how the injury happened, specifically if work related or otherwise could be billed to someone else. At that time, tell them the story you told here. They will determine if they need to collect loss from coverage for their client.

I would also seek legal advice. This isn't personal and the homeowners have insurance, or else the listing agent's company will also be liable.

In the end, your wife has suffered and so have you. That needs to be addressed and reconciled.

 

[CardsFan]

Sooner or later your medical insurance company will ask your wife how the injury happened, specifically if work related or otherwise could be billed to someone else. At that time, tell them the story you told here. They will determine if they need to collect loss from coverage for their client.

I would also seek legal advice. This isn't personal and the homeowners have insurance, or else the listing agent's company will also be liable.

In the end, your wife has suffered and so have you. That needs to be addressed and reconciled.

Yeah. This was my first thought. Ultimately there might may be a tussle between the carriers. But yours (OP) is going to want someone else to pay, if they can make it happen

 

[skipro33]

Yeah. This was my first thought. Ultimately there might may be a tussle between the carriers. But yours (OP) is going to want someone else to pay, if they can make it happen

I doubt there will even be a tussle. These companies work together to resolve the medical expenses. Each will discover the cheapest way to handle it, may even keep running tallies as to who owes more to the other based over many years and claims to balance the books. It's very much a business and nothing personal to them as they manage claims. The bigger issue is when they want the person who suffered the injury to sign off that they are satisfied. Don't sign away your rights, know the implications of signing anything doing with liability. There may be both a criminal and a civil restitution owed by any number of insurance covers; homeowner, injured party's own coverage, the listing realtor, etc. A simple consult with a reputable lawyer can advice you with an initial consultation.
I had an injury claim, the consult attorney said the party involved didn't have coverage of any consequence and didn't have assets worth seeking. He was just doing his job and frankly there wasn't enough there to even pay his fee, let alone dragging me and DW through the process of our court system. In the end, we settled with the insurance company for the max limit on their policy and signed off.

 

[NateW]

Brutal fall. Prayers for swift recovery

Thank you MrsHaloFIRE. DW is looking much better today and is able to stand a few minutes to do simple tasks (we have a walker and raised toilet seat from her knee surgeries. I installed the toilet seat last night). Nose no longer bleeds. I don't leave her alone, though.

 

[NateW]

Yikes! So sorry that happened to your DW.

Agree with the others. Wait and let emotions cool down.

I’m curious - what was the impression of the house (other than the tripping incident)? Is/was it something you would put an offer on? With a drive of over 175 miles, there must have been something piquing your interest with the house. Can the incident be used as [-]leverage[/-] a discussion point to get a better deal on the house?

No, we decided the house is too small and the neighborhood is not as nice as we anticipated. We have made the decision to move out of the Shenandoah Valley (we live near Winchester) due to air quality issues and any place we are looking is at least 50 miles away. The place we saw yesterday was near Charlottesville, VA. After we left the hospital, we stopped for gas a few minutes later and the traffic was bad, Northern Virginia (where I lived most of my life) bad. I was quite surprised.

We also plan to look in, and visit the Lynchburg area. If that does not pan out, we'll look in North Carolina.

 

[NateW]

....In OP's situation, I wouldn't sue for, or chase in any way, compensation beyond any out-of-pocket expenses incurred. And I liked OP's thoughts that going forward he would be more conscious of his DW's propensity to stumble due to her artificial knees, etc.

Thank you youbet.

 

[NateW]

My condolences for your DW's injuries.

Thank you MarielG.

 

[RetireeRobert]

If they have a homeowners policy, it probably has med pay coverage which would pay your medical bills without regard to liability. I would turn in a claim to their HO carrier and see what they say. Sometimes companies will offer a small amount over the medical costs to get you to sign a release and close the claim out. If you're trying for a larger settlement, you would most likely need to get an attorney who would typically take about a third of any settlement.

+1

 

[RunningBum]

No, we decided the house is too small and the neighborhood is not as nice as we anticipated. We have made the decision to move out of the Shenandoah Valley (we live near Winchester) due to air quality issues and any place we are looking is at least 50 miles away. The place we saw yesterday was near Charlottesville, VA. After we left the hospital, we stopped for gas a few minutes later and the traffic was bad, Northern Virginia (where I lived most of my life) bad. I was quite surprised.

We also plan to look in, and visit the Lynchburg area. If that does not pan out, we'll look in North Carolina.

You were in my neck of the woods. My guess is that you hit I-64 west bound in rush hour. It's usually not too bad, but sometimes two trucks will slow drag each other up the mountain to Afton and everyone loses. They aren't supposed to do that, but I'm not allowed to write tickets. An accident is worse because all of the trucks are forced into the one open lane and some of them can't even do 25mph up the hill.

I'd consider Roanoke along with Lynchburg, probably ahead of it. Lynchburg is kind of dominated by Liberty University, which may or may not be a plus to you. Roanoke has plenty of places with great views, has some nice parks, and generally doesn't seem to have big traffic problems.

 

[NateW]

This is exactly the reason we had our sidewalk in front of the house repaired (ours, not along the street) after part of it settled creating a 1/2" raised portion. I'd seen delivery people and the lawn guy stumble on it and I figured it was only a matter of time before someone fell.

I called a handyman who advertised small concrete jobs and it cost $200 about three or four years ago. I was so impressed that he broke up the two sunken sections with a sledge hammer instead of a jackhammer that I gave him an extra $40. That's doing it the hard way!

So I disagree with those who say "no case". I very clearly saw that there was a hazard to other people and I took steps to correct it.

Thank you Walt34, I commend you for fixing your sidewalk. I wish we were so lucky to have the sellers do this.

 

[NateW]

Ah so this is basically a pathway, part of the homeowner's landscaping, not in the easement. So not really what most of us would consider a sidewalk.

Still, your insurance will probably guide you here as they will be SUPER happy to find a reason to get another companies policy involved.

No, it was a concrete sidewalk leading from the home's front porch to the middle of the home's asphalt driveway. Yes, if DW has medical expenses that are fairly large, I'll ask our homeowners insurance company what to do.

 

[NateW]

Sooner or later your medical insurance company will ask your wife how the injury happened, specifically if work related or otherwise could be billed to someone else. At that time, tell them the story you told here. They will determine if they need to collect loss from coverage for their client.

I would also seek legal advice. This isn't personal and the homeowners have insurance, or else the listing agent's company will also be liable.

In the end, your wife has suffered and so have you. That needs to be addressed and reconciled.

Thank you skipro33 for explaining how the process works. We'll consider more than insurance company reimbursement of out-of-pocket expenses if there is some type of long-lasting medical issues or expenses related to DW's fall.

 

[aaronc879]

No, it was a concrete sidewalk leading from the home's front porch to the middle of the home's asphalt driveway. Yes, if DW has medical expenses that are fairly large, I'll ask our homeowners insurance company what to do.

That's not a sidewalk that is a walkway or pathway. A sidewalk is along the side of the road and owned by the city.

Living in the North we have frequent freeze/thaw cycles that cause uneven pavement. I have a 1/2 difference between sections of my walkway going from my porch to my driveway and I also have buckles in my driveway. No way I would expect someone to replace cement every year or two. I would expect people to watch where they are walking.

 

[NateW]

You were in my neck of the woods. My guess is that you hit I-64 west bound in rush hour. It's usually not too bad, but sometimes two trucks will slow drag each other up the mountain to Afton and everyone loses. They aren't supposed to do that, but I'm not allowed to write tickets. An accident is worse because all of the trucks are forced into the one open lane and some of them can't even do 25mph up the hill.

I'd consider Roanoke along with Lynchburg, probably ahead of it. Lynchburg is kind of dominated by Liberty University, which may or may not be a plus to you. Roanoke has plenty of places with great views, has some nice parks, and generally doesn't seem to have big traffic problems.

Yes, that is one long grade up the mountains. Much more so than the north end of the Valley. We left the hospital at 4:30 pm. It's not the UVA Medical Center one, it's the small hospital off I-64. Paperwork says "Sentara" on it. We got gas two, perhaps 3 exits west of that. The bad traffic was on the roads off of I-64. Took a right at the end of the exit ramp and pulled into a Shell station on the left hand side of the road. The pump's card reader was not working and there were no other pumps available, so we went to the Exxon across the street. The area was jammed with traffic. The house we saw was in Lake Monticello.

We looked at Roanoke and Salem before we bought the house in Winchester in 2019. We saw two near Smith Mountain Lake. They had tiny 2-car garages and the furnace and water heater were in the crawl space of each one. First time I have ever saw that. We were not impressed. The one we saw in Salem was around the corner from the Walmart, and we soon discovered was built on a teardown lot. This big new house was surrounded by old ratty houses. It was one block from I-85 and the highway was loud! There were not a lot of houses on the market there then. Lynchburg and Forest are next in our list to visit.

It's too bad we have to move because the neighbors' wood smoke is asphyxiating us (plural possessive intended because following closure of my woodsmoke thread on this forum, I discovered another house across the street from the first one in the old neighborhood next to us also heats solely with wood and he smokes almost as bad as the one I can see). Our house in Winchester is really nice, it's relatively new, and has most of the comforts we want. It looks especially good after looking at a few houses on the market which cost more than we paid for ours. Prices have really gone up due to Covid.

 

[NateW]

That's not a sidewalk that is a walkway or pathway. A sidewalk is along the side of the road and owned by the city.
...

Thank you for pointing this out. I'll use "walkway" from now on. Now I see why my wording caused confusion.

 

[ivinsfan]

Thank you skipro33 for explaining how the process works. We'll consider more than insurance company reimbursement of out-of-pocket expenses if there is some type of long-lasting medical issues or expenses related to DW's fall.

Can I ask you a question? If you don't want to answer that's fine too. Your DW unfortunately due to some medical issues took a bad fall at a place where most people would not have the same result.


Now you talk about maybe suing of any long lasting issues pop up, so far so good, no problem. Yet you are hoping to sell a house that you consider a hazard to both your mental and physical health. Difference here is a one off fall which both parties had some responsibility for and one party knowing there is a big problem they are trying to get rid of. How are you reconciling this in your mind? Are you prepared to have the buyer of your house sue you? Cause I'd sue you if I found out the whole story.

 

[JoeWras]

This is exactly the reason we had our sidewalk in front of the house repaired (ours, not along the street) after part of it settled creating a 1/2" raised portion. I'd seen delivery people and the lawn guy stumble on it and I figured it was only a matter of time before someone fell.

Us too. Saw some tripping, and did my own tripping. It was both the sidewalk and front steps. Sidewalk had the 1/2" lip, steps sunk a good 1" making the last step out of sequence with the others.

We ended up dropping a bit more than $1k on concrete jacking service. It worked very well. I figured, spend 1k here and get peace of mind, or spend $1k on my insurance deductible and potentially worry about someone's changed life after they tripped and crushed their head on our brick steps.

 

[Sunset]

I've noticed here, some sidewalks (city owned) ground down the lip, so it's like a short ramp rather than jack, or re-pour the cement.

 

[Aerides]

Thank you for pointing this out. I'll use "walkway" from now on. Now I see why my wording caused confusion.

Yes, especially when having any conversations with insurance, sidewalk usually means something at the edge of one's property, and considered common area stuff, not home-owner stuff.

If this was within the actual property, (ie, where you could accuse someone of trespassing), then it's just a concrete path or something else. Consider sketching it out now while it's fresh in your memory.

 

[UpQuark]

I have no legal experience but I googled Virginia liability. I don't know whether the law has changed since the website I found was written, but at least in the past, VA is harsher against the people that fall...
"... if your Virginia slip and fall case goes to trial and the property owner is able to pin any amount of the legal blame for the slip and fall on you, you could end up without any compensation at all. Most states follow some variation of a rule known as “comparative negligence” in personal injury cases where the person who is bringing the lawsuit (the plaintiff) also bears some amount of legal fault for what happened. Under this rule, any damages award the plaintiff receives will be reduced according to the percentage of their fault. But Virginia is one of a handful of states that doesn’t follow "comparative negligence." Instead, the much less plaintiff-friendly "contributory negligence" rule is still employed in Virginia personal injury cases.
Under "contributory negligence," if the plaintiff is found to bear any amount of blame for the underlying accident, then the plaintiff can’t recover any compensation from any other at-fault party. Not surprisingly, that can lead to some pretty harsh results for personal injury plaintiffs."

 

[jurgs01]

Homeowners are always liable. But that doesn't mean you should sue them. It's up to you. If it was me I'd see what the bills are like, and decide from there. If there turns out to be anything majorly expensive then maybe contact the homeowners and their insurance company.

IMO opinion this is sort of a Golden Rule situation. If someone was at your house and fell and hurt themselves, would you want them to sue you? But JMO, and worth what you paid for it.

Great advice [emoji106]