This works out great for everyone. The OP opened the thread asking people to PM him to swap hot ideas. I assume that is happening in droves while others keep the thread alive (and aware of the offer in the OP). Without the joshing, this would be a dead thread
Looking to chat to sophisticated investors
- Thread starter planman
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COcheesehead
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I agree with what you are saying, but this board has a tendency to pile on a poster they don't agree with. Go to any thread with a post or two that goes against the Bogle way and watch what happens. I've got hit in the chops a few times, but I keep coming back for more. The good far outweighs the bad here.
A thread is of [-]little[/-] no benefit if some members use language that is callous and deeply disrespectful toward others. Those who cannot suffer disagreement without being disagreeable should look elsewhere to solicit whatever it is they are looking for.
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REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
I agree with what you are saying, but this board has a tendency to pile on a poster they don't agree with. Go to any thread with a post or two that goes against the Bogle way and watch what happens. I've got hit in the chops a few times, but I keep coming back for more. The good far outweighs the bad here.
+1
You need a thick skin to post on internet forums, even those who are well-moderated and quickly flush effluent (correctly spelled) posters.
Speaking of flushing, what's that sound I hear?
COcheesehead
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
A loonie tunes cartoon may be on the horizon.
And all the "humorous" postings keeps the thread near the top of the timeline charts such it keeps folks more aware that there may be something new to learn.
Great advertising, we should be thanked for promoting his wishes to the community.
Great advertising, we should be thanked for promoting his wishes to the community.
copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
+1 for this.
I am a long time reader, somewhat infrequent poster to this site. In terms of investment style, I am neither a 'buy the indexes, asset allocate and forget' nor a 'dozen trades a day is the only way' investor. The majority of my assets are allocated in "boring" low cost index funds, some money is allocated to individual equities, some money in inflation indexed bonds, regular bonds, and plain old cash and equivalents (e.g. CD's). Having said all that, the purpose of this area of the site is "Stock Picking and Market Strategy", so why the big deal when someone wants to discuss possibilities?
I will also say that I think there *are* market inefficiencies (and this is coming from someone with an Economics degree and who has also worked on Wall Street), especially in special situations and where you are NOT a large player (which would tend to eliminate the inefficiency/arbitrage situation). It's one of the areas where we as small players have an advantage over the big boys. One of these was the Mutuals going public situation I described, and there is psychology involved, e.g. the pricing of the IPO on a Mutual going public is not just based on an efficient market, but rather involves the mechanism that the insider can acquire stock. As noted, these situations do not last forever.
I've gotten some good ideas from this site, e.g. ISM/OSM, and for one appreciate these kinds of discussions.
Major Tom
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
It's not that he doesn't advocate a passive index fund approach. There are plenty of people here who purchase individual equities, and use various different analytical methods to inform their buy and sell decisions. They may be in the minority here, but it's a pretty sizable minority. It's the way he's going about things.
Besides, if I tried hurling humor at Ha, he'd outwit me in a split second
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
I suspect the big deal had far more to do with the presentation than the material. Joining a forum with a "you are all wrong, I'm right" first post rarely ends well.
target2019
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
+1
Some believe that dis-respect is the right way to converse. I've followed the thread for a while, as I am interested in how someone became successful. Now it's time to move on.
Major Tom
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
+1. Nailed it.
copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Well, the first post was "New member Looking to start a ongoing thread where sophisticated investors can swap ideas about investment strategies like spin-offs, conversions, div capture strategies and market inefficiencies. "
I'd hardly call that a "you are all wrong, I'm right" first post?
After a while, the thread certainly went down hill, but a bunch of posts like "For whatever reason, there are herds of great traders willing to tell anyone who will listen about how well they >did<. In one named portfolio. Looking forward or seeing the entire record somehow spoils the magic.
A trader who can really pick a high percentage of winners over time could use options/leverage to grow fabulously rich in short order. There are few instances of this. " certainly didn't help.
How about we discuss the ideas, and each person can decide if it is for them or not?
Rustward
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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Just for the record, when I post about my managed accounts, I usually get "we are all right, and you are wrong". I got that from day one.
You can go back through every one of my posts; I never advocated ditching index funds for managed accounts.
I am me, and you are you. Do as you wish.
Fedup
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I still don't understand how an individual can do better than some hedge fund guys. I know the CEO of the most successful hedge fund in Europe but in the last year or so the fund has lost money and the CEO resigned. It seems risky to me to buy 10000 shares of anything as an indivual. I don't think I was being disrespectful. I myself like to trade options and buy individual stocks for years. I still do. But the bulk of my investment is still in index.
copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I think I gave an example of that with the Mutual Savings Bank to publically traded example. It is typically impossible to buy 10,000 shares on the offering. You can only buy shares because you are an individual who has savings in the mutual bank, and are limited based on how many other of the mutual owners take up the offer. The reason that these worked out (in general), is that the insiders must buy at the same price as what is offered to the mutual shareholders. Since they like money
, the pricing of the offering is NOT market based and the efficient market theory does NOT apply. Yes, their goal is to raise capital for the bank to leverage and loan, but their own desire to make money on their own personal investment "influences" the goal to raise capital. Disclaimer: I haven't done any of these in a long time, and the number of Mutual's around are much smaller than in the 80's and 90's, so I can not comment on whats going on these days.
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
That wasn't his first post on the forum. Look it up.
Fedup
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I guess I will lead off with one of my trades last year hopefully others will add their successful trades and a little about how they found them. Last years home run was LMT spin off of LDOS. One of my favorite areas is to look for value in spin offs and special distributions. These type of investments are often mispriced and are too complicated and obscure for most individual investors. Finding these types of investment requires some unique research skills and the ability to find, read and understand SEC filings in an efficient and timely manner. For those willing to put in the work great rewards can be had as I was able to amass over 10,000 shares of LMT upon filing and received LDOS shares at an avg price of $33 share now over $50.
This is the post I'm referring to, he amassed over 10,000 shares of LMT.
copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Yes, 2.6 Million $ of something is a large investment. To me at least! I will say that as my portfolio has grown, what was a lot of money in a position in 1978 (when I bought my first stock) and now is significantly different.
I'm not arguing that he/she couldn't be a bit more humble, and I certainly don't know whether he/she really did that kind of #'s, but I am saying that discussing these things have value. Maybe not to those who are index only, but to those of us looking for new ideas.
For many, many years there was no to little institutional following of Spin off's and how they performed. Now, there are funds so perhaps the game has changed and they won't work. But I would still like to see discussion on these, as some of the underlying psychological aspects of them are still true. Namely that the management of the spun off organization was not able to get proper capital and resource allocation from the parent, and given the management of the new organization is now running the show (and quite frequently has significant equity), they are able to better exploit their business.
Ready
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I believe the quote that got people's attention was:
"Hire someone who knows how to invest and don't buy into the whole Vanguard Index investing myth. You get what you pay for with Vanguard."
So there are negative reactions to two things here:
1) Hire someone, which brings out the negative feelings many on this forum have regarding financial advisors
2) Index investing myth, which suggests that those who are indexers here have somehow been fooled into believing a myth.
There is nothing wrong with presenting a contrarian point of view on a topic board like this. I think it makes for stimulating conversation. But the above post, and the subsequent posts that followed, did not contain anything to explain or elaborate on these two thoughts, other than a bit of boasting and bravado without any concrete ideas.
It was then followed by I won't share my thoughts until you share yours. From there, I'd say it devolved into a thread with some light hearted humor and ribbing, but not much meaningful content.
"Hire someone who knows how to invest and don't buy into the whole Vanguard Index investing myth. You get what you pay for with Vanguard."
So there are negative reactions to two things here:
1) Hire someone, which brings out the negative feelings many on this forum have regarding financial advisors
2) Index investing myth, which suggests that those who are indexers here have somehow been fooled into believing a myth.
There is nothing wrong with presenting a contrarian point of view on a topic board like this. I think it makes for stimulating conversation. But the above post, and the subsequent posts that followed, did not contain anything to explain or elaborate on these two thoughts, other than a bit of boasting and bravado without any concrete ideas.
It was then followed by I won't share my thoughts until you share yours. From there, I'd say it devolved into a thread with some light hearted humor and ribbing, but not much meaningful content.
Chuckanut
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I've made a few extra bucks thanks to LOL!. Can't complain.
That is great, and this is a marketplace of ideas open to anyone. Maybe you'll exchange some fantastic ideas with planman. He's expressed a particular desire to exchange ideas with this demographic: people who are "50 somethings" and who live in Florida. He's also said he has special skills, has made a lot of money, and that investors shouldn't waste time getting advice from a retail broker ("if he knows how to invest, what does he need you for?"--and I agree with that). Instead, he says you should hire someone who knows how to invest (and I wonder: If he knows how to invest, what does he need you for?). Maybe planman thinks investors should hire someone with "special skills." As he has said: A fool and his money are soon parted.
Bestwifeever
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I just read along for the entertainment value, but I wonder why OP refined his goals in this thread when he said he wants to establish a dialog with 50-somethings who are sophisticated investors in the Florida area since OP's profile says he in in New York. That's a pretty specific group. Perhaps there is an incredible offer?
Chuckanut
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
One thing I finally learned about internet forums is that you don't HAVE to respond to every post that contradicts your point of view. Sometimes it's best to just let things slide.
That said, the best way to silence critics and embarrass the people who pile on is to post clear recommendations that are successful. It's hard to argue with success.
Seems possible. Start in the forum, go to PMs (no pesky naysayers), then a meetup to really get into the details. It could be very, ummh, exciting.
Chuckanut
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Wasn't this method of investing invented by Will Rogers who said:
"Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it."
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