Maui wild fires

[SecondAttempt]

Of course, there were so me casualties in the water and some of those folks may never be found.

I'm doubtful that many people who jumped in the water to escape the flames died. Some likely did. But the Coast Guard is pretty good at searching for floating bodies in Hawaii. It's actually not uncommon. We hear about searches probably at least once a month. And that's for one body. If there were dozens I think we'd have heard. And this time they called on all available small craft to assist because they could not get the larger Coast Guard boats in very close.

We do get something called "brown water" warnings when there are heavy rains. The rains can wash down lots of dirt and sediment as well as dead pigs. Sharks are attracted to this so the brown water warnings are to avoid swimming in brown water near where streams enter the ocean.

That does not seem to be at play here because I don't think there were any heavy inflows of brown water. But who knows what goes through a shark's head. Maybe heavy smoke over the water sent them in hunting mode.

 

[Koolau]

Thanks yet again, SecondAttempt for your perspectives.

Thanks also for the concert. I'm on the mainland and didn't even know about it since I have no access to radio from the Islands.

Lots to be learned from this tragedy but I fear the cover up will reduce our ability to learn as we may never know all the truth. I've seen it too many times.

I have a lot of fears about what will now happen to Lahina and its people. The "sharks" are already gathering. YMMV

 

[Souschef]

I mad 2 contributions. One was to the Maui Food Bank. The other was a GoFundMe to help pay for the gas of the pilots flying supplies into West Lahaina Airport.
The FAA has suspended a rule to allow the pilots to be paid for their gas, which is $10 per gallon.

 

[JoeWras]

I don't have a hard heart. We give away over 10% of our income each year.

But I'm not giving to any Maui effort until I see some honest transparency from all involved. Sorry.

 

[SecondAttempt]

I don't have a hard heart. We give away over 10% of our income each year.

But I'm not giving to any Maui effort until I see some honest transparency from all involved. Sorry.

It is always a personal choice and no one should judge you either way. I personally give fairly generously to charities but I am VERY selective about which ones I support. I don't generally like the large charities because even though they can be very efficient, they are notorious for high executive pay and for capitalizing on tragedies. I won't name names here but they are household names. Super small charities can also be problematic because they tend to be very inefficient, but of course there are exceptions!

I've also been enough of a donor through the years to get close to the upper management of a few local through international organizations to see how incompetent they can sometimes be. They mean well but...

That said, I have NOT given any money toward Maui relief even though I am deeply impacted by it emotionally because it hit so close to home, not just literally but because I have relatives and friends on Maui and most of my coworkers do as well. I just don't see a need for cash right now but that is in no way a criticism of people who have given cash! If I had heard about buying gas for the planes that is probably something I would have done. I am not religious but I would feel comfortable giving through a church as well.

On the Big Island they are setting up shipping containers around the island for people to drop things off. I will probably donate some needed supplies and volunteer to sort and pack. But this is seen as a long term need so the Mayor's office who is organizing this is holding off for a bit because they seem to have adequate supplies for now and there will still be a need to fill once all the media leave Maui.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Thanks also for the concert. I'm on the mainland and didn't even know about it since I have no access to radio from the Islands.

Many stations here can be listened to online. Depending on your tastes (and maybe politics) two that I am aware of are kaparadio.com (local radio in Kailua-Kona on the Big Island playing mostly Hawaiian music) and www.hawaiipublicradio.org (local affiliate of NPR). There are others of course.

I have a lot of fears about what will now happen to Lahina and its people. The "sharks" are already gathering. YMMV

Sadly, yes, that is where the discussion is going now. People are already getting shark attacks from developers hoping to scoop up deals. The state is looking at implementing a moratorium on sales right now and has already said building permits will likely be VERY hard to get for Lahaina properties sold right now. Federal law limits what can be done but the emergency order and the fact Hawaii is a unique place helps. (There are exemptions to Federal racial discrimination laws regarding native Hawaiians enshrouded in older Federal laws so there might be some clever lawyering done.)

There are also the big decisions about how Lahaina is rebuilt. The Lahaina of a month ago emphasized art galleries and the whaling and missionary history of the town. But the town was the capital of the Hawaiian Kingdom and was an important site in Hawaiian culture long before that. There are many folks who think the rebuild should focus on the importance to Hawaiian culture instead. I guess my personal opinion is that they should not tell individual property owners what they can do with their own properties, but the overall plan for the town should be decided by an extended constituency beyond just Lahaina, and possibly beyond just Maui.

 

[SecondAttempt]

I mad 2 contributions. One was to the Maui Food Bank. The other was a GoFundMe to help pay for the gas of the pilots flying supplies into West Lahaina Airport.
The FAA has suspended a rule to allow the pilots to be paid for their gas, which is $10 per gallon.

I'm interested in donating to help these folks. Do you have a link to their GoFundMe? Do you know how much gas a flight to Maui burns? I'm thinking from Big Island or Oahu are about the same distance and I realize it depends a little on load, just looking for a guess. What type aircraft are they flying?

 

[gcgang]

I don't have a hard heart. We give away over 10% of our income each year.

But I'm not giving to any Maui effort until I see some honest transparency from all involved. Sorry.

Maui Strong (part of Hawaii Community Foundation) is acting kind of like a United Way for distributing funds to charities they “vet” that are providing relief to Maui. Their website yesterday listed almost $6mm in disbursements, and then lists all the different organizations and amounts they’ve given.

Another - Maui Food Bank is an organization I’ve supported for years.

Not sure what you want for “honest transparency “.

 

[Koolau]

Many stations here can be listened to online. Depending on your tastes (and maybe politics) two that I am aware of are kaparadio.com (local radio in Kailua-Kona on the Big Island playing mostly Hawaiian music) and www.hawaiipublicradio.org (local affiliate of NPR). There are others of course.



Sadly, yes, that is where the discussion is going now. People are already getting shark attacks from developers hoping to scoop up deals. The state is looking at implementing a moratorium on sales right now and has already said building permits will likely be VERY hard to get for Lahaina properties sold right now. Federal law limits what can be done but the emergency order and the fact Hawaii is a unique place helps. (There are exemptions to Federal racial discrimination laws regarding native Hawaiians enshrouded in older Federal laws so there might be some clever lawyering done.)

There are also the big decisions about how Lahaina is rebuilt. The Lahaina of a month ago emphasized art galleries and the whaling and missionary history of the town. But the town was the capital of the Hawaiian Kingdom and was an important site in Hawaiian culture long before that. There are many folks who think the rebuild should focus on the importance to Hawaiian culture instead. I guess my personal opinion is that they should not tell individual property owners what they can do with their own properties, but the overall plan for the town should be decided by an extended constituency beyond just Lahaina, and possibly beyond just Maui.

Yeah, this whole subject is going to be touchy for years to come. Striking some kind of balance between individual rights, cultural sensitivity, historical restoration and commercial interests will be a real balancing act. I suspect that when it's all finished, the only way to know that it was handled successfully will be if (wait for it) NO ONE is happy or satisfied with the way it was done!

On top of all that I suspect there will be insistence that building permits include "safer" structures than the haphazard building that was so vulnerable to fire - yet looked so quaint, funky, cool, etc. I hope that doesn't make "New Lahina" look like tiki/taki! Restoring Lahina to its former funky "glory" should be at least one of the goals.

I would not want to be one of the principals involved in all this. It would be a good way to become unpopular. YMMV

 

[SecondAttempt]

Yeah, this whole subject is going to be touchy for years to come. Striking some kind of balance between individual rights, cultural sensitivity, historical restoration and commercial interests will be a real balancing act. I suspect that when it's all finished, the only way to know that it was handled successfully will be if (wait for it) NO ONE is happy or satisfied with the way it was done!

Totally agree. If everyone is pissed we have consensus!

Seriously though, I think there is a tremendous opportunity to rebuild in a way that is respectful to Hawaiian culture and keeps the tourists coming. Personally I think the missionary and whaling themes were a little passé. Unfortunately, if there is one thing we really suck at in Hawaii it's urban planning! (But really there is not just one thing we really suck at!)

 

[SecondAttempt]

Maui Strong (part of Hawaii Community Foundation) is acting kind of like a United Way for distributing funds to charities they “vet” that are providing relief to Maui. Their website yesterday listed almost $6mm in disbursements, and then lists all the different organizations and amounts they’ve given.

Another - Maui Food Bank is an organization I’ve supported for years.

Not sure what you want for “honest transparency “.

Hawaii Public Radio is hosting today and tomorrow a fundraising drive for Hawaii Community Foundation(HCF). Hawaiipublicradio.org

100% of your donation will go to the foundation. HPR is even covering the credit card fees. HCF is well known but I can't vouch for them. They fit in the large charity category that I tend to avoid. But that is my personal choice not a recommendation.

 

[Koolau]

Totally agree. If everyone is pissed we have consensus!

Seriously though, I think there is a tremendous opportunity to rebuild in a way that is respectful to Hawaiian culture and keeps the tourists coming. Personally I think the missionary and whaling themes were a little passé. Unfortunately, if there is one thing we really suck at in Hawaii it's urban planning! (But really there is not just one thing we really suck at!)

Yeah, if you want to start a list, we'd be here until tomorrow (and yet I love my adopted home.) Top of my list is the Light Rail, but we're not talking about that here. Just sorta came out.



Returning you now to Lahina...

 

[SecondAttempt]

Top of my list is the Light Rail, but we're not talking about that here. Just sorta came out.

Oh stop bragging!

 

[SecondAttempt]

Yeah, if you want to start a list, we'd be here until tomorrow (and yet I love my adopted home.) Top of my list is the Light Rail, but we're not talking about that here. Just sorta came out.



Returning you now to Lahina...

I started a thread in Other Topics about HNL Light Rail. Thank you for your tax contribution.

 

[Koolau]

I started a thread in Other Topics about HNL Light Rail. Thank you for your tax contribution.

Yeah, even at half a percent on every purchase, it's a pittance compared to the cost - and it will go on for ever though I'll never ride the thing. It was only built to service half the Island (and not my half.)

 

[SecondAttempt]

Yeah, even at half a percent on every purchase, it's a pittance compared to the cost - and it will go on for ever though I'll never ride the thing. It was only built to service half the Island (and not my half.)

And I might love it if could take me and the other thousands of tourists daily from the airport to Ala Moana and Waikiki. But no. That would hurt the donors...

 

[Koolau]

And I might love it if could take me and the other thousands of tourists daily from the airport to Ala Moana and Waikiki. But no. That would hurt the donors...

Clearly by being designed to service our 2nd City (Kapolei) it's not really for tourists (though the Ko Olina resort area IS for tourists.) And you're right. The rail doesn't go any place that would help those tourists or others - at least not for the foreseeable future.



I honestly don't have special insight into the whole debacle, but I don't think anyone is surprised at the mess. It was all a make-w*rk project - to get Federal funds - that got out of hand.

 

[SecondAttempt]

The Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources announced today that the Lahaina banyan tree is expected to survive! There is an army of volunteers from all over the country nurturing it and they have been measuring new growth in the roots and most of the trunks. I think this is hugely symbolic.

While I think it would be an exaggeration to say the tree was super important to most people, it's pretty hard to justify not liking a tree, right? It was certainly a fixture of Lahaina. But that tree was planted in India in 1837 and given as a gift to Lahaina in 1873.

In any case, definitely a symbol of hope for Maui!

 

[Alan]

The Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources announced today that the Lahaina banyan tree is expected to survive! There is an army of volunteers from all over the country nurturing it and they have been measuring new growth in the roots and most of the trunks. I think this is hugely symbolic.

While I think it would be an exaggeration to say the tree was super important to most people, it's pretty hard to justify not liking a tree, right? It was certainly a fixture of Lahaina. But that tree was planted in India in 1837 and given as a gift to Lahaina in 1873.

In any case, definitely a symbol of hope for Maui!

That's good to hear!!

I'm a custodian at an ancient priory where I live and as you walk into the gardens of the priory there is an old, old yew tree, propped up now in places but still covered in new leaf every year. It has been dated at between 1,000 and 2,000 years old, older than the priory which was built 900 years ago. I touch it for luck every time I pass it. The priory gardens themselves include a towering avenue of english lime trees that we know were planted in 1756.

I love old trees, I think they are important to many people and I really hope that the Lahaina banyan tree survives.

 

[braumeister]

I'm a custodian at an ancient priory where I live and as you walk into the gardens of the priory there is an old, old yew tree, propped up now in places but still covered in new leaf every year. It has been dated at between 1,000 and 2,000 years old, older than the priory which was built 900 years ago. I touch it for luck every time I pass it. The priory gardens themselves include a towering avenue of english lime trees that we know were planted in 1756.

That's just wonderful to hear! I also love old trees and visit record holders whenever I happen to be traveling near one.

 

[simple girl]

The Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources announced today that the Lahaina banyan tree is expected to survive! There is an army of volunteers from all over the country nurturing it and they have been measuring new growth in the roots and most of the trunks. I think this is hugely symbolic.

While I think it would be an exaggeration to say the tree was super important to most people, it's pretty hard to justify not liking a tree, right? It was certainly a fixture of Lahaina. But that tree was planted in India in 1837 and given as a gift to Lahaina in 1873.

In any case, definitely a symbol of hope for Maui!

Wonderful news!

 

[Koolau]

The Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources announced today that the Lahaina banyan tree is expected to survive! There is an army of volunteers from all over the country nurturing it and they have been measuring new growth in the roots and most of the trunks. I think this is hugely symbolic.

While I think it would be an exaggeration to say the tree was super important to most people, it's pretty hard to justify not liking a tree, right? It was certainly a fixture of Lahaina. But that tree was planted in India in 1837 and given as a gift to Lahaina in 1873.

In any case, definitely a symbol of hope for Maui!

I'm so glad to hear this!