Something I've always wondered

[johnhkc]

It always surprises me that people who've saved all their lives and rack up millions to live on should give a damn about Social Security and Medicare and all the hoops, bureaucracy and general BS that you have to jump through to use/claim them? "Will it be covered?" Cash covers everything. "Is it in my network?" Cash is in everyone's network.

You know that this stuff is bankrupting the country. Seriously - why not just ditch that crap and use your savings? It's soooo much easier.

 

[dixonge]

I've noticed another contradiction (on a related note):

Lots of people: "You should delay S.S. because you never know how long you might live"

Same people: "You should retire early, because you never know when you might die"

Just a thought lol

 

[6miths]

I expect that you may be overestimating the number of people who have saved millions and underestimating how expensive healthcare is for many common diseases. Plus a solid social safety net means your neighbors will be in a better mood and you are less likely to have to dip into your 'guns and ammo' portfolio.

 

[Aerides]

It always surprises me that people who've saved all their lives and rack up millions to live on should give a damn about Social Security and Medicare and all the hoops, bureaucracy and general BS that you have to jump through to use/claim them? "Will it be covered?" Cash covers everything. "Is it in my network?" Cash is in everyone's network.

You know that this stuff is bankrupting the country. Seriously - why not just ditch that crap and use your savings? It's soooo much easier.

You might have a point on Social Security, but Medicare? "Use your savings instead of health insurance" is a quick way to realize you haven't racked up nearly enough millions...

 

[mystang52]

I've noticed another contradiction (on a related note):

Lots of people: "You should delay S.S. because you never know how long you might live"

Same people: "You should retire early, because you never know when you might die"

Just a thought lol

This.

 

[Gumby]

It always surprises me that people who've saved all their lives and rack up millions to live on should give a damn about Social Security and Medicare and all the hoops, bureaucracy and general BS that you have to jump through to use/claim them? "Will it be covered?" Cash covers everything. "Is it in my network?" Cash is in everyone's network.

You know that this stuff is bankrupting the country. Seriously - why not just ditch that crap and use your savings? It's soooo much easier.

If you find it so much of a burden, feel free not to take Medicare or Social Security. That leaves more for the rest of us.

 

[DenverGuy42]

Unless you have hundreds of millions or at least high 10's of millions, you're going to need some medical insurance.

I had a pulmonary embolism five years ago. Fortunately I was actually walking into the hospital with my wife for a procedure when it happened. I collapsed and my heart stopped - good thing I was in the hospital already about 200 yards from the ER. I was in the ICU for 10 days, a step down unit for 4 days. 4 weeks later, I had a heart attack at 3am while recovering back at home. Back into the hospital for another 4 day stay. Between that and all of the followups, procedures to remove filters from my veins, physical therapy and the like - the hospital billed me over $1,000,000 (that was for a 3 month period, another $400,000 the first six months of the next year).

Insurance knocked the $1,000,000 in billing down to the mid 400's. I would have had to negotiate that stuff myself if I self insured.

My out of pocket for the experience was under a few thousand - my max out of pocket was pretty low (I had good employer provided health care from my wife's plan - I had retired just six weeks before this all happened).

That literally would have wiped out a very sizable chunk of our retirement.

We are not relying on SS - we didn't use it when running the numbers. But I'll be taking it as will my wife. Why leave money on the table?

Medicare - when I qualify for it in 10 years (maybe they'll lower the age, that'll be nice) and 12 years for my wife will be significantly less than we pay on the open market right now. We did budget for paying for health insurance out of pocket.

so - i think unless you are incredibly rich, like hundreds of millions or high 10's of millions at least - health insurance is going to be something you are going to have to have.

 

[walkinwood]

I've noticed another contradiction (on a related note):

Lots of people: "You should delay S.S. because you never know how long you might live"

Same people: "You should retire early, because you never know when you might die"

Just a thought lol

I don't see the contradiction. They are both true if you reword them. I think "might die" is overly optimistic

Lots of people: "You should delay S.S. because you never know when you will die"

Same people: "You should retire early, because you never know when you will die"

 

[HtownRose]

I know a couple of people who have rejected Medicare. Haven't heard of anyone rejecting Social Security.

Example 1 - has made & continues to make so much $ he hasn't felt the need for health insurance for many years prior to Medicare eligibility & hasn't signed up for it upon reaching eligibility. Currently fighting cancer & spending an unimaginable amount.

Example 2 - wife is a retired Texas teacher & he prefers to be on her plan - refuses to even consider Medicare.

 

[MRG]

Health care? I remember when Megacorp had a million dollar cap on benefits and a coworkers kids blew through it. My manager had a 14 hour surgery to remove a large growth from his head. The surgeon who did his soft palette reconstruction wasn't in ANY network he wanted 250k. Yeah I want my Medicare, also to go across state lines because it's ignorant not to be able to. My SS benefit wasn't planned for but it was guesstimated at $3500 at age 70. That's a great chunk of change to say "nah I don't want that" so I do want mine. Maybe it will pay for a nicer memory unit.

 

[aja8888]

I don't think the O.P. realizes we pay A LOT of DOLLARS into SS and Medicare during our working years. It only makes sense that the benefits are there for OUR use, if we decide to enroll at retirement.

Hey, if the Gov thinks either of these programs are "bankrupting" the country, the Gov can take steps to resolve that with the stroke of a pen.

 

[Gotadimple]

I know a couple of people who have rejected Medicare. Haven't heard of anyone rejecting Social Security.

Example 1 - has made & continues to make so much $ he hasn't felt the need for health insurance for many years prior to Medicare eligibility & hasn't signed up for it upon reaching eligibility. Currently fighting cancer & spending an unimaginable amount.

Example 2 - wife is a retired Texas teacher & he prefers to be on her plan - refuses to even consider Medicare.

Example 1: he automatically gets Part A (hospital insurance) if he signs up for Social Security. If he isn't taking Social Security, then Part A is delayed until he does.
Example 2: Texas teachers don't qualify for Social Security as they don't pay social security taxes. They are covered by the Texas Retirement System.

 

[johnhkc]

You might have a point on Social Security, but Medicare? "Use your savings instead of health insurance" is a quick way to realize you haven't racked up nearly enough millions...

Going it alone is difficult but there are fixed options under Medicare with set deductibles, etc. If you have sufficient savings, you could opt for a plan which a giant deductible similar to a corporate stop loss but ERISA is in the way. Medicare also has a lot of restrictions on coverage and since they don't pay the full price like private insurance (or cash), that's another potential disadvantage. And, many doctors will not accept it.

 

[johnhkc]

I expect that you may be overestimating the number of people who have saved millions and underestimating how expensive healthcare is for many common diseases. Plus a solid social safety net means your neighbors will be in a better mood and you are less likely to have to dip into your 'guns and ammo' portfolio.

I'm only asking about the savers - not the public in general. Some countries have health and retirement systems where the govt tax-based system disappears if you show you have it covered on your own. Especially for SS, that would mean stock or stock/bond rates of return instead of the negative to barely positive rates you have now.

 

[razztazz]

It always surprises me that people who've saved all their lives and rack up millions to live on should give a damn about Social Security and Medicare and all the hoops, bureaucracy and general BS that you have to jump through to use/claim them? "Will it be covered?" Cash covers everything. "Is it in my network?" Cash is in everyone's network.
You know that this stuff is bankrupting the country. Seriously - why not just ditch that crap and use your savings? It's soooo much easier.

Most of the people you're talking about are what Bob Brinker referred to as "The Beer and Pretzels Rich." They ain't really rich. They know it. They realize they need socialism to survive or at least to retire. In a nutshell that's it. Now, some will give some argument about how they paid taxes and want their money back but that's a different subject and a beard as it were for "I need the money / I can't afford insurance."

Other people are truly Rich Rich. And really don't need the money and will be paying retail rates for gold plated hospital suites if they ever get sick. But they're also greedy. Need to feel they're getting away with something or putting it to someone. That's how they keep score. Their lawyers will work the hassle part. They will sign on the dotted line. Easy for them

 

[savory]

You know that this stuff is bankrupting the country.

These are the two categories bankrupting the country? I expect with a closer look, we could find two other categories.

 

[johnhkc]

I know a couple of people who have rejected Medicare. Haven't heard of anyone rejecting Social Security.

Example 1 - has made & continues to make so much $ he hasn't felt the need for health insurance for many years prior to Medicare eligibility & hasn't signed up for it upon reaching eligibility. Currently fighting cancer & spending an unimaginable amount.

Example 2 - wife is a retired Texas teacher & he prefers to be on her plan - refuses to even consider Medicare.

I wonder if Example 1 could get the care he wants if on Medicare?
If you don't take Medicare, you can't get SS. Maybe Example1 took Part A but handles the rest separately? I wonder if you can do both or will an insurer balk at that?

 

[johnhkc]

If you find it so much of a burden, feel free not to take Medicare or Social Security. That leaves more for the rest of us.

More what? They're both in the red!

 

[Dtail]

It always surprises me that people who've saved all their lives and rack up millions to live on should give a damn about Social Security and Medicare and all the hoops, bureaucracy and general BS that you have to jump through to use/claim them? "Will it be covered?" Cash covers everything. "Is it in my network?" Cash is in everyone's network.

You know that this stuff is bankrupting the country. Seriously - why not just ditch that crap and use your savings? It's soooo much easier.

Feel free to not use these services.
As mentioned in another thread, many folks are against socialism, but are quite willing to take SS especially.
Why not reduce our military spending to shore up these programs?

 

[Car-Guy]

It always surprises me that people who've saved all their lives and rack up millions to live on should give a damn about Social Security and Medicare and all the hoops, bureaucracy and general BS that you have to jump through to use/claim them? "

I've saved millions and I still give a damn about collecting what is owed to me. I was forced to pay into the system for decades and now I want it back as promised. And as much as I hate government programs, I must say that SS has been seamless/painless and I've had far fewer problems using Medicare than when I had private insurance.

 

[johnhkc]

These are the two categories bankrupting the country? I expect with a closer look, we could find two other categories.

I should have left that comment out - it wasn't my main point.
However, from the IRS 1040 instructions (2018 is the latest I have):
SocSec / Medicare = 41%
Social programs = 22%

Defense = 20%
Interest on the debt = 8%
Comm development = 7%
Law enforcement/general govt = 2%


What are your "other 2"?

 

[Midpack]

It always surprises me that people who've saved all their lives and rack up millions to live on should give a damn about Social Security and Medicare and all the hoops, bureaucracy and general BS that you have to jump through to use/claim them? "Will it be covered?" Cash covers everything. "Is it in my network?" Cash is in everyone's network.

You know that this stuff is bankrupting the country. Seriously - why not just ditch that crap and use your savings? It's soooo much easier.

So you’re planning to forego Soc Sec and Medicare after paying into them for your entire career?

BTW, do you have home and auto insurance?

 

[johnhkc]

Health care? I remember when Megacorp had a million dollar cap on benefits and a coworkers kids blew through it. My manager had a 14 hour surgery to remove a large growth from his head. The surgeon who did his soft palette reconstruction wasn't in ANY network he wanted 250k. Yeah I want my Medicare, also to go across state lines because it's ignorant not to be able to. My SS benefit wasn't planned for but it was guesstimated at $3500 at age 70. That's a great chunk of change to say "nah I don't want that" so I do want mine. Maybe it will pay for a nicer memory unit.

Memory unit? You can put RAM in your head?!?
When I was in high school, I loved programming computers and science so much that I wanted to have a math co-processor (FPU) in my head so I could do complex math equations quickly. That way, if you don't know something, you don't have to waste a bunch of time "learning"; you just pop in a new cartridge!! I am a geek.

 

[MichaelB]

Thread moved to public policy forum where it seems a better fit.

 

[Spock]

Forget how much cash you have saved. In today's medical system you need an insurance plan just to knock the astronomical charges down to a negotiated rate else you'll be paying $100 per aspirin tablet dispensed from the hospital pharmacy.
The number of people who can afford to self-pay cash without any insurance is so small that statistically its unlikely any of them are on this board to read your opinion.