New Weight Loss/Obesity Drugs Could Transform Economy

[GenXguy]

The human body hasn't changed in 50 years. The only thing that's changed are food choices and activity level.

I saw a story a while back that said microbiome changes since the 80's cause humans today to weigh more today despite the same amount of food consumption and exercise.

 

[badatmath]

From the same article I linked upthread:

"People in the 1800s did have diets that were very different from ours. But by conventional wisdom, their diets were worse, not better. They ate more bread and almost four times more butter than we do today. They also consumed more cream, milk, and lard."

"And while they probably exercised more on average than we do, the minor difference in exercise isn’t enough to explain the enormous difference in weight. Many of them were farmers or laborers, of course, but plenty of people in 1900 had cushy desk jobs, and those people weren’t obese either."

IDK. I am grateful I can mostly manage my weight somewhere in normal BMI though it does vary higher or lower within that range.

I'm super frustrated with the exercise lately cause it is freaking terrible weather (for my location) and finding it much harder to fit into my day if I can't just go outside. (And yeah I'm a wimp okay) but I mean when I was out today it started hailing. . . I keep going back to "must join a gym" and then going "but I think that sounds awful". I haven't been to one so I have no proof I'd hate it - but I generally do not love crowds and the reviews of the gyms by my house say things like "took me 14 phone calls and 6 months to cancel" or "have to drive around the parking lot over and over to find a spot before I can get in" and this was supposedly non peak time! It is a small lot I know cause I go to a store next to it fairly often.

I've mostly made up my mind to join one via my health insurance cause it appears you can hook up with more than one location. But I have yet to pull the trigger.

I figured I might as well wait to see what the PT thinks I should be doing when they evaluate me next week.

 

[mathjak107]

I started exercising when I was 31 to be healthy and not for weight loss. 38 years later I still do it for that reason.

my wife and i have been gym rats for two decades ..we go 5 days a week still.

i run 3.5 miles every other day.

WE HATE THE GYM …lol.

nothing fun about it .

but we feel so guilty if we don’t go ….its just a way of life for us .

unfortunately i am now on trulicity for my diabetes and that is one of the weight loss drugs .

i didn’t want to lose weight but it was a fact of life on these drugs so i lost 25-30 lbs the last year and a lot of that was muscle .

so i am working hard to build that back

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

IMO it's the honeymoon phase where the drawbacks have yet to be discovered.

I think you are right!

 

[mathjak107]

I think you are right!

glad to see you here

 

[Cayman]

Chemicals.
Developed, manufactured & used in the last generation.

I don't recall a single post here about chemicals, so I'm throwing chemicals in the mix. Our waterways, air, soil and bodies are exposed to more man made chemicals than ever. The WHO recognizes pollution as a contributing factor to obesity. This is backed up by numerous studies. There are many more examples - endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs), "forever" chemicals used in large quantities in the food industry and in many people's homes (PFAS), pesticides, herbicides, BPA, the large number of "round up ready" crops developed, grown and consumed in the US... the list goes on & is backed by science as contributing to obesity. I have a close relative who is a biochem grad & food scientist. I've been hearing this for over a decade it is not new.

I'm not interested in debating the changes in our physical environment and our bodies (including our gut biome) due to chemicals developed, manufactured and introduced in the last generation. I do want to call out man made chemicals as another potential factor influencing influencing obesity and our overall health. Obesity is a complex disease with many causes - simplifying it to "use restraint and exercise" ignores decades of science backed research.

As far as I can tell, chemicals are expected to continue to push obesity rates higher, if so there may be an even stronger impact on the economy. Time will tell.

 

[Amethyst]

I think one reason people are fatter these days (and their posture is terrible) because everyone stares at a screen all day, especially looking down at their phones.

 

[dixonge]

I love large scale food production (plus refrigeration) because it has basically eliminated starvation, except in some politically repressed/corrupt countries. It's also made it possible to have fresh fruit and vegetables even in places that are frozen for 6 months of the year.

One of the obvious downsides is that with so much food available some people lack diet control.

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek in my prior comment. I am a *big fan* of the so-called 'green revolution' as it has allowed for the population of the world to bloom, while the calories available per-person actually grew. Yes, obesity is a side effect we have not yet learned to master. From an evolutionary perspective, if we had the population would be higher. Maybe it's a natural limiting effect?

Still reading this article which is quite long but the consensus so far is they have no idea why some people are fatter than others even with the same inputs. It is kind of interesting if you are a geek honestly - I had no idea Oreos were invented in 1912 which kind of blows my theory of "we have more junk food now".

https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/...i-current-theories-of-obesity-are-inadequate/

Upon finally reaching the end of the article it appears they want to blame environmental contaminants though there is a lot of "IDK". It was interesting anyway. 3 part series with a bonus section on CICO.

Obesity is a complex disease with many causes - simplifying it to "use restraint and exercise" ignores decades of science backed research.

CICO is still the basic underlying math, and while the complete picture is more nuanced it is still a truth. If you want to lose or gain weight, you have to adjust the factors that *ARE* in your control, usually food intake and energy expenditure. You probably can't do anything about your underlying metabolism. You can take probiotics for gut biome issues, eat organic produce grown in your back yard, etc. And that's about it.

Many like to use these nuances re: gut biome, trace levels of chemicals, food ingredients, etc. as excuses for why they *can't* lose weight. They are all factors, but none of them has more than a small percentage of effect on metabolism and the body's normal digestion process. No factor can overcome CICO.

If you believe otherwise, that calorie reduction can't cause weight loss, then you have a lot in common with the breatharians! They believe you don't even need food.

What is a Breatharian?

 

[Amethyst]

My observation is that some people crave food, especially rich food, more than others. I can see this in my own family members. Even as a child, I didn't care for heavy foods, and the taste of fat made me gag. Others, on the other hand, asked for seconds. If you can't be satisfied with one portion, that would make it easier to gain and harder to lose weight, would it not? Going against one 's natural predilections is hard, no matter what they are.

 

[sengsational]

CICO is fine, but uninteresting. It's like saying if the bouncer at the door of the club only lets a few people in, then the club won't be crowded. Not that interesting. If you ask why did clubs start to get so damn crowded lately, you'd have to wonder what changed with the bouncer's attitudes and policies lately. That's more interesting.


There are a lot of "obvious" things that explain the trend and there are less obvious things that also correlate. I like the increase in antibiotic use and the affect on the microbiome. I'm not going to claim to "know" anything, because that would degrade me... nobody "knows" anything definitively about the most troubling aspects of the problem.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

glad to see you here

Thank you for cluing me into the Early Retirement Forum MJ. It seems the people here are much more even tempered. Likely there are a lot more higher net worth people than CD (where it was just you and Mogul and a handful of others). This is more of a fit for MJ. But, I am still on CD because I like knowing what hours Mogul is sleeping (and all the odd topics -- LOL).

 

[mathjak107]

Thank you for cluing me into the Early Retirement Forum MJ. It seems the people here are much more even tempered. Likely there are a lot more higher net worth people than CD (where it was just you and Mogul and a handful of others). This is more of a fit for MJ. But, I am still on CD because I like knowing what hours Mogul is sleeping (and all the odd topics -- LOL).

it is very different here then cd .

cd has a much greater make up of the haves and have nots with a constant battle between them .

here there is more a common goal of people wanting to learn or to do better .

it is a much better mix of knowledgeable ideas rather then people just believing their own bull sh*t and parroting others that are misinformed.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

it is very different here then cd .

cd has a much greater make up of the haves and have nots with a constant battle between them .

here there is more a common goal of people wanting to learn or to do better .

it is a much better mix of knowledgeable ideas rather then people just believing their own bull sh*t and parroting others that are misinformed.

Yes, it is better for the financial stuff for sure.

 

[mathjak107]

Yes, it is better for the financial stuff for sure.

i started learning here 20 years ago …we had lots of wise elders …

i think just about all the views i have about retirement planning came from these forums and michael kitces and blanchette ..who i learned about from these forums as well

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

i started learning here 20 years ago …we had lots of wise elders …

i think just about all the views i have about retirement planning came from these forums and michael kitces and blanchette ..who i learned about from these forums as well

Well, you know my story and I got scared off by the two crashes (even though I originally thoroughly recovered). Though I had studied mutual funds and stocks on Morningstar and I had an inkling regarding risk. I had was in the market for only two years before 2000 hit and then 2008 hit. So, all I had been doing for 10 years was recovering from crashes. I think if I had 10 good years before I had two big crashes I might have stayed in long enough to understand more about the psychological effects and how to avoid it (through education). It's a little late in the game now for me at 61 to play with $0 of the casino's money.

 

[mathjak107]

i have been investing since 1987 and it has never been a penny of casinos money .

each day it’s all my money that i choose to keep in play in my investments .

getting back to the subject , after 6 months of being on trulicity for my diabetes the weight loss from it has slowed down .

i went from 185 to 158 or so and i didn’t want to lose the weight .

being a weight lifter i lost a lot of muscle in the process and at 71 it’s a battle regaining it back ….

hopefully though the weight loss has ended

 

[RetiredHappy]

my wife and i have been gym rats for two decades ..we go 5 days a week still.

WE HATE THE GYM …lol.

unfortunately i am now on trulicity for my diabetes and that is one of the weight loss drugs .

i didn’t want to lose weight but it was a fact of life on these drugs so i lost 25-30 lbs the last year and a lot of that was muscle .

so i am working hard to build that back

My husband is also on Trulicity and he has lost about 15 lbs. He has been on it for about 20 months now. He does not have muscle loss issues. Our concierge doctor has some sort of equipment which sends signals to the body to measure muscle and fats throughout the body, and does that for our annual exam. He came back almost as super human. Our doctor said amongst all his patients, my husband came in 2nd in muscle mass, only behind some hockey player. He golfs and does not work out. He does use bands to strengthen his arms for golf. He is 76 years old.

I hate going to the gym but I golf 4 to 5 days a week and it is enough for me to have a strong heart, good cholesterol level and blood pressure controlled. Golf is considered moderate aerobic activity.

 

[mathjak107]

if you saw me before and after going on trulicity you would see the difference in my arms and chest .

my weights lifting is down 10 to 20 lbs too.

it is impossible not to lose muscle with weight loss .

we have no control if what we burn is fat or muscle .

we can only try to build it back but the older we get the harder it is

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

if you saw me before and after going on trulicity you would see the difference in my arms and chest .

my weights lifting is down 10 to 20 lbs too.

it is impossible not to lose muscle with weight loss .

we have no control if what we burn is fat or muscle .

we can only try to build it back but the older we get the harder it is

Actually, if you completely abstain from food there is this thing called muscle sparing. But, you need to read a lot and practice a lot to believe it. It's difficult to practice. It's kind of too late now because you just need to rebuild muscle so you need to look into what is the right diet for building muscle and how much protein and when/how. I am sure you can put the muscle back on that you intend to.

 

[GrayHare]

Heard a news report today that the number of gym memberships did not increase during January like they usually do. Who needs to exercise when weight loss drugs are on the way?

 

[RetiredHappy]

if you saw me before and after going on trulicity you would see the difference in my arms and chest .

my weights lifting is down 10 to 20 lbs too.

it is impossible not to lose muscle with weight loss .

we have no control if what we burn is fat or muscle .

we can only try to build it back but the older we get the harder it is

FWIW, my husband has always been on a high protein diet since becoming diabetic some 22 years ago. I know I am preaching to the choir because as a diabetic you already know to not consume much carbs.

 

[mathjak107]

Heard a news report today that the number of gym memberships did not increase during January like they usually do. Who needs to exercise when weight loss drugs are on the way?

300 a month for those drugs and most have no insurance that covers it

so here is what will likely happen .

all that weight loss will burn both muscle and fat .

fat is inert and burns no calories, muscle does .

so once they hit their desired weight loss and go off , their metabolism will be slower then before because of muscle loss .

without rebuilding muscle it becomes a circle

 

[mathjak107]

FWIW, my husband has always been on a high protein diet since becoming diabetic some 22 years ago. I know I am preaching to the choir because as a diabetic you already know to not consume much carbs.

same , higher protein for years but it still has no effect on whether fat or muscle goes .

this is the size of my arms a year ago , before trulicity.

i will have to get a more recent photo to show the difference in what was burned .
and i weight lift every other day while running 3.5 miles the days i don’t lift .

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

Yeah, it has been proven that lowering calories lowers your metabolism. However, with fasting your calorie burn actually slightly increases. This is why OMAD, intermittent fasting and other forms of more extended fasting are all the rage. The Keto diet where you attempt to stay in a state of Ketosis (fat burning while interspersing it with fasting is a good bet for pre diabetic / diabetic). However, Keto focuses on fat in the diet with moderate protein and it's difficult to even get the good carbs right and some have to go as low as 10 net carbs). Some modify Keto to as many greens as you want.

It's a whole thing... Also, if you struggle to add the weight it may be useful to hire a personal trainer. I had to do that after my accident. I would like to do it again because I really built so much muscle in my upper body anyways it really paid off for the long run and I'd like to get another shot of That.

You can get a Dexascan that will show your muscle vs fat (vs bone and water, etc.). I would recommend you do a before and after at least ( a time or two).

All stuff from following these 'forums' and my own reading and practice for years. I know how it works; it's just hard to implement on yourself.

 

[mathjak107]

Yeah, it has been proven that lowering calories lowers your metabolism. However, with fasting your calorie burn actually slightly increases. This is why OMAD, intermittent fasting and other forms of more extended fasting are all the rage. The Keto diet where you attempt to stay in a state of Ketosis (fat burning while interspersing it with fasting is a good bet for pre diabetic / diabetic). However, Keto focuses on fat in the diet with moderate protein and it's difficult to even get the good carbs right and some have to go as low as 10 net carbs). Some modify Keto to as many greens as you want.

It's a whole thing... Also, if you struggle to add the weight it may be useful to hire a personal trainer. I had to do that after my accident. I would like to do it again because I really built so much muscle in my upper body anyways it really paid off for the long run and I'd like to get another shot of That.

You can get a Dexascan that will show your muscle vs fat (vs bone and water, etc.). I would recommend you do a before and after at least ( a time or two).

All stuff from following these 'forums' and my own reading and practice for years. I know how it works; it's just hard to implement on yourself.

fasting for me is a no no