Desktop Computer Backup

[RetMD21]

I’ve moved everything to the MS Cloud. I’m a retired IT PM and after visiting MS and learning that OneDrive has a data retention level of 12 Nines, meaning they will have your data 99.999999999999% of the time, I knew my home backup retention could not cover that. Bundled with O365 annual subscription it made sense.

Do you keep local copies of the data files? I use Onedrive but I have resisted deleting the local copies, the "save space" option.

 

[ERD50]

This is easy, if you know the trick. First, Thunderbird is an offshoot of Eudora, one of the very-earliest e-mail clients. I've used Eudora since the late 1980s, because the way to back it up, is by copying the entire Eudora (or Thunderbird) subdirectory.

I have close toone million messages on Eudora, but the size of its subdirectory folder is only 2.04 GB. That's easy to copy, & I keep it on OneDrive, so I can access all my messages on any compter that's lgged in to my Microsoft account.

Simple, & foolproof.

Good info - I'll add one thing.

Even though that sub-directory is a reasonable size for backing up, from what I've seen, the large file in there is a database of the messages. So if you get a single added message, or delete one, that database file is updated.

The only 'problem' with that is, if you do an incremental backup of the email, it has to copy that entire relatively large database, even though only a few bytes changed, because it is all one file. So incremental backups take longer than you might think.

-ERD50

 

[Jerry1]

Just remember, RAID can help prevent data loss, but it is not a backup solution:
https://blog.storagecraft.com/5-reasons-raid-not-backup/

But our most likely issue is data loss - typically from a HD going bad. RAID solves that problem. However, I agree, it is not a backup solution. The next step after RAID is to copy/backup the data to another disk and it’s even better if you can store that off site. That protects against some other common threats like fire, theft . . .

 

[target2019]

I know just enough to be dangerous about computers and recently proved it when my computer crapped out. I thought I was backing up the pictures, files, and email (Thunderbird) weekly on a portable HDD. As it turned out, only the files were adequately backed up. I bought a new computer and had a computer place reconstruct everything as best they could from recovered files on the SSD and my backup HDD.

I've ordered a Seagate 2T hard drive that I plan to back up the new computer. The new computer has a 1T HDD and a 250G SSD. Ideally, it seems like I'd just want to mirror both drives.

My question is how to best do that. My old backup program supposedly just updated any file that had been changed and left the other stuff alone, so a back up was relatively quick, as opposed to copying the whole drive over and over again. Suggestions on how best to proceed?

OS uses the profile folder for several important items. For instance, Thunderbird and other apps have files in there. This is the C:\Users|youloginname folder.

If another uses the folder then you need two profile folders (but make sure the backup app or procedure can copy the folder of another user.

One thing to point out is that the folder contaianes some measure of useless data too. You should really peruse the user folder and look at what is in it, and select folders one by one--Desktop, MyDocuments, and so on.

For more-important apps, be sure you identify the folder where the data is stored.

This article directly addresses where Thunderbird stores the user's data.
Profiles - Where Thunderbird stores your messages and other user data

Thunderbird saves personal information such as messages, passwords and user preferences in a set of files called a "profile", which is stored in a separate location from the Thunderbird program files. While it is possible to have multiple profiles, most users just use the single default (see Using Multiple Profiles for more information).

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profiles-where-thunderbird-stores-user-data

Another thought is that your specific details and needs may not always conform to what a support doc or other internet user thinks. So, be sure to confirm what is said.

 

[zaqxsw]

Drive Snapshot: Drive Snapshot - Download evaluation Software

Tiny, simple program that has never let me down in decades.

 

[Perryinva]

I use Acronis. Bought my one copy good for 3 computers, in 2018 for like $20 on Newegg. Mac or PC (we have both).

 

[target2019]

One distinguishing feature is whether the backup program can store more than one image on the backup media. Windows image cannot do that. You'd need one disk per backup. I guess a large flash drive may work. $25 or so for a 1 TB flash.

I have enough spare HD's, so I'm ok with Windows imaging as a solution.

I also have Acronis for Western Digital, and that will work so long as a WD drive is attached.

 

[2cheap2eat]

Cloud storage has one downside, they will scan all your data. So encrypt or lose your privacy. Also whatever method you use be sure to test that it works and is recoverable. Nothing worse than thinking you are backed up only to find your method is a fail.

That’s why I don’t trust Google or other cloud storage for anything sensitive (such as financial records, etc).

I use a thumb drive and backup my data files. I also keep install files for programs.

Don’t forget to backup your phone contacts (tons of software out there) and your web browser bookmarks.

 

[GenXguy]

Just remember, RAID can help prevent data loss, but it is not a backup solution:

Yeah, I mentioned that earlier in the thread:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f54/desktop-computer-backup-113901-2.html#post2769155

 

[RetMD21]

Cloud storage has one downside, they will scan all your data. So encrypt or lose your privacy.

or you can use an end to end encrypted backup service

 

[jim584672]

or you can use an end to end encrypted backup service

Unless it leaves my machine in ciphertext I have trust issues that a third party is trustworthy enough to provide the security. Seems like a Veracrypt container that sits in the cloud might be a solution, but I haven't tested if it is performant enough to work.

 

[zinger1457]

One distinguishing feature is whether the backup program can store more than one image on the backup media. Windows image cannot do that. You'd need one disk per backup. I guess a large flash drive may work. $25 or so for a 1 TB flash.

You can save multiple Windows images on the same drive, just need to rename the WindowsImageBackup folder on the backup drive before creating a new image. I actually prefer it that way, can rename the folder to a more descriptive name. Just need to make sure the image you want to restore is in the WindowsImageBackup folder when it comes time to restore.

 

[Livefree]

This is easy, if you know the trick. First, Thunderbird is an offshoot of Eudora, one of the very-earliest e-mail clients. I've used Eudora since the late 1980s, because the way to back it up, is by copying the entire Eudora (or Thunderbird) subdirectory.

I have close toone million messages on Eudora, but the size of its subdirectory folder is only 2.04 GB. That's easy to copy, & I keep it on OneDrive, so I can access all my messages on any compter that's lgged in to my Microsoft account.

Simple, & foolproof.

I've been using Eudora for years too, and love it. Unfortunately, my service provider went away, and I've transitioned to gmail with Eudora. They just informed me, they won't be supporting it anymore due to it not being secure.



"On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in technology"



Do you know if there's an updated version that would work? I'm using version 7

 

[target2019]

One distinguishing feature is whether the backup program can store more than one image on the backup media. Windows image cannot do that. You'd need one disk per backup. I guess a large flash drive may work. $25 or so for a 1 TB flash.

I have enough spare HD's, so I'm ok with Windows imaging as a solution.

I also have Acronis for Western Digital, and that will work so long as a WD drive is attached.

You can save multiple Windows images on the same drive, just need to rename the WindowsImageBackup folder on the backup drive before creating a new image. I actually prefer it that way, can rename the folder to a more descriptive name. Just need to make sure the image you want to restore is in the WindowsImageBackup folder when it comes time to restore.

Thanks. That is a great tip.

 

[RetMD21]

Unless it leaves my machine in ciphertext I have trust issues that a third party is trustworthy enough to provide the security. Seems like a Veracrypt container that sits in the cloud might be a solution, but I haven't tested if it is performant enough to work.

Well, that's your take on it. With multiple services offering end to end encryption some being zero knowledge for < $100 per year it seems like a workable solution to me. I lack the discipline to use an external device each time I change a file and then transport it offfsite.

 

[jim584672]

Well, that's your take on it. With multiple services offering end to end encryption some being zero knowledge for < $100 per year it seems like a workable solution to me. I lack the discipline to use an external device each time I change a file and then transport it offfsite.

I was playing around, Mega has 20gb free cloud. Created a Veracrypt container of 19gb. Moved most of my important stuff into it, encrypted the container with GPG AES256, uploaded it to Mega. Not too bad, but more for periodic backups than every day. Day to day I rsync to an external.

Clonezilla the whole drive weekly.

 

[scrabbler1]

That’s why I don’t trust Google or other cloud storage for anything sensitive (such as financial records, etc).

I use a thumb drive and backup my data files. I also keep install files for programs.

Don’t forget to backup your phone contacts (tons of software out there) and your web browser bookmarks.

I use thumb droves to back up my personal data files. I vary between doing a full, sweeping copy every 3 months and a simple copy of recently changed files on the other months.

Those data files include an .exe folder where I keep downloaded programs I don't keep on external installation CDs.

I run a backup program for my PC-based email system prior to the external copy. I also view my Favorites folder to see if I changed anything there, before copying it to my Documents directory.

Twice in the last 11 years, I have had to replace my HD (or entire PC) and reinstall the programs and files. It took a few hours but I didn't lose anything other than some recent changes to a few files (I was fortunate enough to have these catastrophic events occur closer to the beginning of the month). It was a little cumbersome with multiple versions of my backed-up files floating around, but I made sure to choose the latest versions.

In the second instance, I was able to find a way to access my files even though my PC could not fully boot up Windows. I have a W10 repair thumb drive which allowed me to find those files on some weird X:/ drive so I used it to get files I had changed in the 9 days since my last backup.

 

[Sunset]

I certainly thought of this thread when I heard some ticking from my computer.
Once I realized it wasn't the DVD drive making the noise, I copied my 20 years of photos over to my main drive. Whew..... I thought.

When I checked the new copied files, they looked named properly in proper directory structures, but each file was 0 bytes

I pulled that drive out, put in a new 2TB drive (larger) and then had to partition, format, and set up the auto mount commands.
Next I grabbed my backup drive, and was relieved to see I had all the photos backed up including this year. I copied them over.

I think I need to automate my backups as I can get lazy and I could miss backing up stuff.

 

[target2019]

That's scary, Sunset. Hope that ticking was something that goes away. Of course it was a needed warning too.

 

[Sunset]

That's scary, Sunset. Hope that ticking was something that goes away. Of course it was a needed warning too.

Unfortunately, the ticking was a short warning, as the drive didn't work properly after I realized what it was.
It went away as it was the sound of the defective hard drive that I replaced.

I will connect it back one last time, to look if there is anything I missed, as I suspect I didn't backup some downloaded books, but if that is all that is missing I'm fine with it.

 

[mountainsoft]

When I checked the new copied files, they looked named properly in proper directory structures, but each file was 0 bytes

This is precisely why I occasionally burn important files to a BluRay disc in addition to my regular backups.

Whether you are backing up to an external hard drive, flash drive, or even an online cloud service it is based on the assumption the source data on your drive is intact in the first place. So even if you have an automated backup, you may run into a situation where a new backup overwrites the previous good backup with corrupted files.

I use BluRay's as a secondary backup precisely because they can't be rewritten. Once the data is burned to them it can't be changed. So as long as the original files weren't corrupted, there is no danger of overwriting them with corrupted files. Of course, burning BluRay's is slow, requires manual intervention, and the storage capacity is limited. So I only take this extra step with my most important files (photos, home videos, financial records, etc.).

Having multiple backups can also help prevent this situation, but unless you check the validity of your files regularly (who does that) you might not notice for months or years that you have a corrupted file on your hard drive that propagated to all of your backups.

There are other ways to watch for these situations, like generating checksums or hashes for each of your files and occasionally verify the hashes haven't changed. One tool I have used in the past for this is Exact File: https://www.exactfile.com/

 

[RetMD21]

Whether you are backing up to an external hard drive, flash drive, or even an online cloud service it is based on the assumption the source data on your drive is intact in the first place. So even if you have an automated backup, you may run into a situation where a new backup overwrites the previous good backup with corrupted files.

It's probably good to have retention of previous versions of the files which is offered by online backup services.