As Things Reopen I am Voting With my Purse

[JAGOTI]

The real pandemic is fear.

 

[harllee]

OP here. Our state entered phase 1 today which means more retail stores can open but restaurants are limited to take out/delivery. There was an interesting article in the local newspaper today that said many retail stores (like book stores, clothing stores and gift shops) are not going to open now because the owners think it is too soon to open. I can understand why the owners of these stores don't want to open. Our small county has had a recent spike in confirmed cases and deaths. We have a population of about 150,000 and have 244 confirmed cases and 32 (!!) deaths. So 13% of the people in our county with confirmed cases have died. Just awful.

 

[Klubbie]

The real pandemic is fear.

+1

 

[Badger]

The real pandemic is fear.

I disagree. The real pandemic are the people who don't take this virus seriously. They are the ones (especially those who are asymptomatic) who will be responsible for the continued spread of this disease that will kill more people unnecessarily.


Cheers!

 

[Midpack]

OP here. Our state entered phase 1 today which means more retail stores can open but restaurants are limited to take out/delivery. There was an interesting article in the local newspaper today that said many retail stores (like book stores, clothing stores and gift shops) are not going to open now because the owners think it is too soon to open. I can understand why the owners of these stores don't want to open. Our small county has had a recent spike in confirmed cases.

Same where we are in NC. Some retailers opened at 5pm last night, the minute they were allowed. Others I know of open today, Mon or Tue. And some are choosing to remain closed. The only way to know is call and ask or drive around.

We’ll see how retailers interpret reopening with limited capacity, I’ve heard 50% but haven’t found it written in anything official. Same with masks, from required for employees and customers to optional for all and everything in between. Some will control # of customers allowed in, some won’t?

And it remains to be seen what customers will do, most go back or most don’t? I couldn’t guess, we’ll see.

The absence of a national plan plan, even if implemented regionally are different times based on metrics, doesn’t make any sense to me. Everyone is just ad-libbing? Russian roulette...

...but I’m glad we’re starting to reopen and this can work, it’s up to all of us now. If we’re all serious about masks, physical distancing, hand washing/sanitizing, fewer trips out and better cleanliness - we could be OK. If most people aren’t serious about precautions - we could spike quickly, possibly even worse.

 

[Chuckanut]

I disagree. The real pandemic are the people who don't take this virus seriously. They are the ones (especially those who are asymptomatic) who will be responsible for the continued spread of this disease that will kill more people unnecessarily.

I figure there is a certain percentage of folks who think this is all a big farce and will not do even the simple things necessary to protect themselves and others. My goal is to stay away from them.

Note the 4th and 5th Laws of Human Stupidity:

4. Non-stupid people always underestimate the harmful potential of stupid people

5. The stupid person is the most dangerous person that exists

As one can see, avoiding stupid people and the damage they inflict on others is of great importance.

 

[John Galt III]

Shockingly to us, we are being ridiculed for hiking with masks, and it is getting worse week by week here (OC, California). I'd say less than 10% of those on the fairly urban/busy trail we hiked on yesterday had masks with them. Somehow wearing a mask is now being perceived as a line in the sand issue. How on earth did this happen

Forget about me telling someone else what to do - I completely fail to understand why my choosing to wear a mask is somehow perceived as a personal threat to those who choose not to.

And the same is occurring, though at a slightly slower rate, within retail establishments. I will admit right here that I am feeling increasingly bitter about my fellow humans. I fear that being my personal legacy from the pandemic.

Some of the folks who ridicule you for wearing the mask no doubt believe you are unwittingly being used as a pawn furthering some insidious political agenda.

 

[John Galt III]

Kudos to the retail folks who choose to stay on the job! I've heard news reports that many people who have been laid off and are collecting unemployment are refusing to return to work even when their employers ask them to return. And it is legal for them to continue collecting unemployment! Not judging the laid off people collecting UI, but what will the employer do? Hire new folks and train them?

 

[Aerides]

Kudos to the retail folks who choose to stay on the job! I've heard news reports that many people who have been laid off and are collecting unemployment are refusing to return to work even when their employers ask them to return. And it is legal for them to continue collecting unemployment! Not judging the laid off people collecting UI, but what will the employer do? Hire new folks and train them?

I have heard a few of these but I think they are mostly outlier anecdotal stories that make a great headline. Most people understand that having a steady job is better than having 2-3 months of boosted UI. And those that don't probably weren't the greatest employees to begin with. It's a buyer's market right now, plenty of people ready, willing, and able, to take those jobs.

 

[gwraigty]

Kudos to the retail folks who choose to stay on the job! I've heard news reports that many people who have been laid off and are collecting unemployment are refusing to return to work even when their employers ask them to return. And it is legal for them to continue collecting unemployment! Not judging the laid off people collecting UI, but what will the employer do? Hire new folks and train them?

In Ohio, employers can fill out a form online and report the employees who refuse to return to work, which cuts off their unemployment. There are still people looking for work, so replacing those who refuse to come back won't be too much of a problem, depending on the industry. In the last few days, DD saw a new young woman being trained at her Panera Bread and a man being interviewed. Some of her co-workers voluntarily stopped working at the start of the shutdowns, for varying reasons. I don't think they qualified for unemployment under those circumstances. A few of them started back earlier this week.

I have heard a few of these but I think they are mostly outlier anecdotal stories that make a great headline. Most people understand that having a steady job is better than having 2-3 months of boosted UI. And those that don't probably weren't the greatest employees to begin with. It's a buyer's market right now, plenty of people ready, willing, and able, to take those jobs.

+1

 

[harllee]

Kudos to the retail folks who choose to stay on the job! I've heard news reports that many people who have been laid off and are collecting unemployment are refusing to return to work even when their employers ask them to return. And it is legal for them to continue collecting unemployment! Not judging the laid off people collecting UI, but what will the employer do? Hire new folks and train them?

In North Carolina if you are called back to work your unemployment payment stops unless you actually have Covid 19 in which case you can and should stay home and still collect unemployment.

 

[timo2]

The real pandemic is fear.

Don't mistake prudence and caution for fear. Fear is a reaction, caution is a plan. Just because someone is cautious does not make them fearful.

 

[harllee]

OP here--Caution is certainly called for now and may well be rewarded. This morning on my local NPR I listed to Dr. Ralph Baric, Covid-19 expert at UNC (he helped develop Remdesivir). He is working now on a Covid-19 antiviral pill that can be taken when you first are infected that he says should be available in the Fall. He said it should be a real game changer. If there is a good chance we are going to have an effective antiviral pill in the Fall then I think it is a great idea to be cautious until that pill is available in a few months.

 

[rodi]

Cloth masks?

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...will-a-face-mask-protect-you-from-coronavirus

https://globalbiodefense.com/2015/04/28/cloth-masks-increase-infection-risk-for-healthcare-workers/

Both articles mentioned reuse of cloth masks without washing them potentially being the problem.

The authors speculate that the cloth masks’ moisture retention, their reuse and poor filtration may explain the increased risk of infection.

I don't sew. I don't have a crafty bone in my body... but I've been sewing enough masks for my household so that they are tossed in the laundry after being worn. I know from personal experience that they are damp after a 3-4 mile dog walk from the respiration... so why would I want to put that back on my face? Household of 4 - so I figure I need 20-30 masks. (I'm up to 20, but will continue making more)

Also as others have mentioned - masks are to protect those around you when you must go out - to contain YOUR respiratory germiness... Not to protect yourself. To protect yourself you wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, maintain physical distance, and avoid unnecessary outings.

 

[Walt34]

I've heard news reports that many people who have been laid off and are collecting unemployment are refusing to return to work even when their employers ask them to return. And it is legal for them to continue collecting unemployment!

Granted that laziness is certainly part of the motivation for some or even perhaps most people staying home. Do consider though that child care may not be available, or they're staying home because of the number of selfish jerks who refuse to wear face masks and gloves that constitute a danger to those who do come to work and everyone else.

I think both of those are perfectly legitimate reasons for someone to stay home. Doubtless there are other valid reasons I didn't think of.

 

[Calico]

I disagree. The real pandemic are the people who don't take this virus seriously. They are the ones (especially those who are asymptomatic) who will be responsible for the continued spread of this disease that will kill more people unnecessarily.


Cheers!

+1

 

[statsman]

The real pandemic is fear.

More like the lack of communication at the discovery of the virus, a lack of preparation in this country for a pandemic (decades in the making), and the inability of the medical community to even come close to understanding this virus, especially in the beginning.

 

[audreyh1]

The real pandemic is fear.

This makes no sense at all.

Some fear is warranted. Are some people too fearful? Perhaps. But saying we should be without some healthy fear seems unwise.

 

[RobbieB]

I think there is way too much fear. Caution is wise, fear makes no sense to me.

 

[Midpack]

Also as others have mentioned - masks are to protect those around you when you must go out - to contain YOUR respiratory germiness... Not to protect yourself. To protect yourself you wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, maintain physical distance, and avoid unnecessary outings.

I keep seeing this repeated, but it doesn’t make any sense to me. N95 masks are worn in industrial settings all the time to protect employees from airborne particles etc. They were required in some environments where I worked for 35 years.

And if N95 masks are only to protect others, why have hospital workers routinely worn them for decades? Not solely to protect patients from hospital workers - if that were true why would ‘a new mask with each new patient‘ be protocol? If it was only to protect workers, they could wear the same mask for a while.

I’m sure masks protect others from you, but that doesn’t mean they don’t also protect you from others. And to be clear I’m not discounting “wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, maintain physical distance, and avoid unnecessary outings.” Those have all been sound practices since long before Covid-19.

N95 respirators and surgical masks (face masks) are examples of personal protective equipment that are used to protect the wearer from airborne particles and from liquid contaminating the face. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) and Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) also regulate N95 respirators.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...n95-respirators-and-surgical-masks-face-masks

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommend the use of a NIOSH-certified N95 or better respirator for the protection of healthcare workers who come in direct contact with patients with H1N1.

https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2009/10/14/n95/

 

[Aerides]

I’ve heard this many times, but it doesn’t make any sense to me. N95 masks are worn in industrial settings all the time to protect employees from airborne particles etc. And if N95 masks are only to protect others, why have hospital workers routinely worn them for decades? Not solely to protect patients from hospital workers - if that were true why ‘a new mask with each new patient‘ be protocol? If it was only to protect workers, they could wear the same mask for a while.

I’m sure masks protect others from you, but that doesn’t mean they don’t also protect you from others. And to be clear I’m not discounting “wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, maintain physical distance, and avoid unnecessary outings.”

When talking of "protecting others" I think most of us are talking about non-N95's which are not used for daily consumer life even in asian countries that adopted masks years ago. N95's are different from typical masks, and most people I encounter are not wearing those.

 

[BeachOrCity]

Kudos to the retail folks who choose to stay on the job! I've heard news reports that many people who have been laid off and are collecting unemployment are refusing to return to work even when their employers ask them to return. And it is legal for them to continue collecting unemployment! Not judging the laid off people collecting UI, but what will the employer do? Hire new folks and train them?

The degree to which retail employers are protecting their employees varies by employer and state requirements. Take a typical retail worker at $10/hr. They either get no health insurance and no sick leave, or those benefits are minimal.

If they get sick, they are screwed. Even if they live.

So yes, some won't come back to work; and yes, the UI situation where state benefit + federal benefit creates perverse incentive for these folks should absolutely be fixed.

But still, for 10 bucks an hour with an employer who doesn't provide much sick leave or health insurance....to put yourself in front of customers some of whom really don't care if they are spreading it or taking precautions? If I had the choice in that situation I might do the same.

 

[gwraigty]

I keep seeing this repeated, but it doesn’t make any sense to me.

<snip>

I’m sure masks protect others from you, but that doesn’t mean they don’t also protect you from others. And to be clear I’m not discounting “wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, maintain physical distance, and avoid unnecessary outings.” Those have all been sound practices since long before Covid-19.

+1

Air flow works both ways. DD has come to believe the same after the effects of wearing a mask 8+ hours.

When talking of "protecting others" I think most of us are talking about non-N95's which are not used for daily consumer life even in asian countries that adopted masks years ago. N95's are different from typical masks, and most people I encounter are not wearing those.

I've seen only a few people wearing N95 masks. They looked either too big or too small on the person. Most are wearing the ones that look like surgical masks or using a cloth mask or bandanna. Our governor does stress that facial coverings are to protect others, not ourselves. He repeats that mantra at every single press conference. It's become an indisputable fact in the minds of many people. If that is the only truth about masks, it's not fair to mandate masks for employees (to protect their fellow employees and customers) and not also mandate masks for customers (to protect their fellow customers and the employees). Well, he did mandate them for everyone in the beginning, then changed his mind twice, and that's what we're now left with.

It's also leading some mask-wearers to believe that non-mask-wearers don't care about the safety of the mask-wearers. That may be so in some cases, but no one knows that for sure. Over the last week, most people had some type of facial covering in my local grocery stores. Most of the people who didn't, were elderly. Did they all have a health condition that made it dangerous for them to wear a mask? Probably not. Maybe some did. There could be other reasons, like some form of cognitive decline. From things I've seen and read, I'm beginning to believe that some people don't access any coronavirus news at all, not even to keep up with local developments in their state or community.

I'm primarily concerning myself with what I'm doing. I didn't wear a facial covering in the grocery store until a couple of weeks ago, when the majority of customers starting doing the same. Peer pressure, I'll admit. But when I'm in the store, if it makes others feel better to see me wearing my bandanna, that accomplishes something good. And I'll talk to anyone else, whether they're wearing a mask or not.

 

[gwraigty]

I think there is way too much fear. Caution is wise, fear makes no sense to me.

+1

 

[Midpack]

When talking of "protecting others" I think most of us are talking about non-N95's which are not used for daily consumer life even in asian countries that adopted masks years ago. N95's are different from typical masks, and most people I encounter are not wearing those.

While other masks may not be as effective as N95’s, they offer some protection for the wearer and others. To suggest they provide no protection to the wearer is false.

Note my FDA source included surgical masks, less protection than an N95. A good lined cloth mask is close to if not equal or better than a surgical mask - I know people who are actively making lined cloth masks.

And while I agree cloth masks are most common, I certainly see people with N95’s out and about too, we wear them. Hopefully most readers realize N95’s are nothing special, until Covid-19 anyone could buy them at any DIY home store for as little as less than a dollar each.