COVID-19 Shutdown Exit Strategy?

[martyp]

My guess is that many stores are going to *require* masks long after the lockdowns are rescinded. We haven't even begun to enter the legal ramifications of COVID-19 on our society. A lot of people are suffering and some will suffer more as we go forward. But not the lawyers.

Unless hygiene requirements are mandatory for business licenses then businesses will do what they need to do to stay in business and make a profit. Think back to the days when some businesses allow smoking and others didn’t. It didn’t settle down until government stepped in.

 

[Just_Steve]

There is a flyer being distributed throughout our neighborhood asking people to join a protest on May 1 at noon. It’s becoming a California statewide movement now with protests in six locations currently scheduled. They are attempting to completely block traffic for two hours to get their point across. It will be interesting to see how the police respond to this.

https://wehaverights.com/

What would be your ideal police response be? just curious.

 

[Ready]

What would be your ideal police response be? just curious.

I had a long talk with both the police and fire department about this upcoming protest. They plan to have a presence there, but primarily to ensure public safety and to avoid property damage. As far as addressing the fact that they are violating the ban on public gatherings, they told me there is nothing they can do. The social distancing is nothing more than a recommendation, not a law. So they can’t prevent protesters from gathering and disregarding the social distancing guidelines because they are not enforceable by law.

The goal of the group is to create a disruption to traffic flow in the area. If they do that the police will step in to keep traffic moving.

 

[GravitySucks]

Perhaps this question has come up on this or another thread...what are the repercussions of NOT wearing a face mask in public if the Governor requiring it? Arrest? Ticket? Wet Willie?

Has this issue been tested in a court yet? I know this whole quarantine drama has created a lot of 1st Amendment questions.

Wet Willie.
Even in NY the Governor has said we can't really enforce social distancing laws. Just urging us not to be dicks in the language government knows.
It's another bottom up thing. Everyone walking near the lady not wearing a mask at Aldi's shook there head or, like me, made a grunt of disgust.
I'm sure store owners aren't going to let people in without a mask as the Noon News Lawyer advertising is looking for Covid-19 employment issue cases already. If my employee catches something because I didn't insist on customers wearing masks.... Another bottom up solution.
As for me - Today was the First time I ever went into a liquor store with a mask on without a pistol.

 

[ejman]

Wet Willie.
Even in NY the Governor has said we can't really enforce social distancing laws. Just urging us not to be dicks in the language government knows.
It's another bottom up thing. Everyone walking near the lady not wearing a mask at Aldi's shook there head or, like me, made a grunt of disgust.
I'm sure store owners aren't going to let people in without a mask as the Noon News Lawyer advertising is looking for Covid-19 employment issue cases already. If my employee catches something because I didn't insist on customers wearing masks.... Another bottom up solution.
As for me - Today was the First time I ever went into a liquor store with a mask on without a pistol.

Good to know that you usually go into liquor stores with a a mask and a pistol. Sounds like a dangerous way to make a living but if it works for you

 

[Just_Steve]

Good to know that you usually go into liquor stores with a a mask and a pistol. Sounds like a dangerous way to make a living but if it works for you

Its a NY thing.

 

[6miths]

Even in NY the Governor has said we can't really enforce social distancing laws. Just urging us not to be dicks in the language government knows.

All kinds of tickets being issued around here for getting too close to others in public places or being in parks that are closed. But of course this is Canada.

 

[Calico]

I had a long talk with both the police and fire department about this upcoming protest. They plan to have a presence there, but primarily to ensure public safety and to avoid property damage. As far as addressing the fact that they are violating the ban on public gatherings, they told me there is nothing they can do. The social distancing is nothing more than a recommendation, not a law. So they can’t prevent protesters from gathering and disregarding the social distancing guidelines because they are not enforceable by law.

The goal of the group is to create a disruption to traffic flow in the area. If they do that the police will step in to keep traffic moving.

Let's hope they don't block any ambulances as occurred at an earlier protest in another state.

 

[harllee]

In NC yesterday several protestors were arrested for violating police orders. The protestors were at the Governor's mansion. The protestors called the police "pigs".

 

[Markola]

In NC yesterday several protestors were arrested for violating police orders. The protestors were at the Governor's mansion. The protestors called the police "pigs".

All the Nominees for 2020 Darwin Awards in one place.

 

[LRDave]

Orange County, Florida - home to Walt Disney World - has come out with some guidance for amusement parks, hotels and restaurants, once they're allowed to reopen. https://touringplans.com/blog/2020/...nomic-recovery-task-force-reopening-strategy/

Thanks for posting this. This sounds like a plan for all those businesses to lose money while at the same time ensuring a miserable guest experience. I don't see how this would work in practice.

 

[Gumby]

Thanks for posting this. This sounds like a plan for all those businesses to lose money while at the same time ensuring a miserable guest experience. I don't see how this would work in practice.

If you go to Disney World, aren't you just asking to be miserable anyway?

 

[gwraigty]

From my post #1046:

I don't know if you read the info in the links, but DeWine is now backtracking on his decision yesterday to make wearing masks mandatory. Yesterday it was "No mask, no work, no service, no exceptions." He just said minutes ago that he's revising it to be a recommendation instead of a mandate. The protocol now reads, "Recommend face coverings for employees and clients/customers." No matter where one stands on this particular issue vs. any other in this whole pandemic, this sort of flip-flopping isn't helping matters.

ETA: Here are links to articles about this issue:

Today: Face masks will not be mandated for Ohio's retail customers, DeWine says



Yesterday: Gov. DeWine lays out plan for gradual reopening of Ohio, beginning May 1

And he flip-flops again, halfway this time:

Coronavirus in Ohio: DeWine does about-face on face masks — then, later, says workers must wear them

Gov. Mike DeWine did an about-face Tuesday on wearing face masks to lessen the spread of coronavirus, announcing that face coverings are recommended — rather than mandatory — as Ohio gradually reopens.

After his administration posted online on Monday that donning face masks would be mandatory in workplaces and for shoppers returning to stores, the governor and his advisers appeared to change their minds -- and they did on store customers.

Then, early Tuesday evening -- a bit over two hours after DeWine’s news briefing ended -- the governor’s office said masks generally would be required in the workplace and for store employees.

“Face coverings would still be mandated for employees unless wearing a face covering is not advisable by a health care professional, goes against industry best practices, or is not permitted by federal or state laws and regulations,” DeWine’s office said in a statement.

The protocol on the Responsible RestartOhio site now reads:

Require face coverings for employees and recommend them for clients/customers at all times.

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Time2]

People have been joking about how we may have a baby boom nine or so months from when we shut down the country. But honestly, who would want to risk getting pregnant now and bringing a child into the world as it currently stands?

The risk of getting pregnant is not enough to prevent most couples from having sex. Sex leads to pregnancy, and it's all to often unintended.
I do expect a baby boom.

 

[Midpack]

The risk of getting pregnant is not enough to prevent most couples from having sex. Sex leads to pregnancy, and it's all to often unintended.
I do expect a baby boom.

Our neighbor is due early July, and there are tons of restrictions now and through her delivery. She has to visit her OB alone, hubby cannot go. And when she delivers hubby can admit with her, but no one else. Once they enter, neither of them can leave for any reason - can’t go out for food, can’t check on their young son, can’t attend to work in person, etc. No family or friends can go. Not a fun time to be pregnant/give birth?

 

[Gumby]

My young niece-in-law gave birth over the weekend. There was some uncertainty about whether my nephew would even be allowed in; ultimately, he was. Everything went well, but I'm sure it was nerve-wracking.

 

[Midpack]

I wanted to start another thread, but I did yesterday and it was closed because the very loosely related topic was posted here earlier?

How many of you have come to conclude this isn’t going to be a couple weeks/months event - our lives will be changed for a year or more even though we may slowly have some/many “privileges” restored? To me the stages have been:

• It won’t be significant in the US, it’s a China issue (late Dec/early Jan)
• It will hit here, but it’ll be contained (Feb)
• It’s going to be significant here and we’ll be in lockdown but once we flatten the curve, we’ll start back toward normal. Hoping science will give us effective therapies. (Mar/early Apr)
• It’s going to hit the US hard, and some aspects of our lives will be changed for at least a year. There will be some new norms, some viable existing businesses will fail, and when they’re replaced it will be many years - many entrepreneurs will be gun shy. Economic recovery will take years, a “V” isn’t in the cards any more. Therapies may take a long time, there may never be a vaccine. State reopenings are going to be in fits and starts, there will be second waves. We’ll get more retail, restaurants/salons will come back modified, but large gatherings could take a long while, even if politicians give the OK, many people won’t come back until there’s robust therapies or vaccines. [We’re avid theater and concert goers, we just hope those orgs survive, it’ll probably be up to Corporate sponsors]

I don’t know why (optimism, denial, naivety), but it’s just dawned on me in the last week or so this is long term. I suspect all our POVs have evolved some.

I’m planning on a year now for anything resembling “normal,” no longer thinking just weeks/months. If it comes earlier great, but it’s fatiguing to think weeks/months and being disappointed day after day.

 

[RAE]

Thanks for posting this. This sounds like a plan for all those businesses to lose money while at the same time ensuring a miserable guest experience. I don't see how this would work in practice.

+1. I wouldn't go near Disney World in the best of times. With all of these restrictions, I can't imagine how anyone could go there and enjoy themselves!

 

[RAE]

I don’t know why, but it’s just dawned on me in the last week or so this is long term. I suspect all our POVs have evolved some.

I’m planning on a year now, no longer thinking just weeks/months. If it comes earlier great, but it’s fatiguing to think weeks/months and being disappointed day after day.

It's almost certainly going to be long-term, in my view. It'll take a couple years or so, minimum, for the country to approach herd immunity (social distancing is necessary to avoid overwhelming hospitals, but it does delay our reaching herd immunity). Until then, the only thing that could dramatically change the course of this would be a miracle treatment, or an effective vaccine. I think the odds of either of those things happening in the next year are pretty slim.

I expect another wave of this thing later this summer.......maybe August? Then, depending on how we react to that, there could be another wave in the Fall/Winter. As long as there are new vulnerable hosts to infect, the virus is not going to go away.

I think we better get used to having this virus around for quite a while.

 

[audreyh1]

I don’t know why, but it’s just dawned on me in the last week or so this is long term. I suspect all our POVs have evolved some.

I’m planning on a year now, no longer thinking just weeks/months. If it comes earlier great, but it’s fatiguing to think weeks/months and being disappointed day after day.

Yeah, I realized it was going to play out very long term weeks ago. Like probably almost 2 years before travel got back to some sense of normal. I figured out that I probably wouldn’t feel comfortable traveling to Europe until the end of next year. And every week that passes confirms that belief. It’s just going to take a long time to play out.

Anyway - that’s how I have set my expectations. If things resolve sooner it will feel like a miracle.

 

[Midpack]

It's almost certainly going to be long-term, in my view. It'll take a couple years or so, minimum, for the country to approach herd immunity (social distancing is necessary to avoid overwhelming hospitals, but it does delay our reaching herd immunity).

I think we better get used to having this virus around for quite a while.

Has herd immunity been confirmed for SARS-CoV-2? I thought it was still unknown though possible.

 

[Nemo2]

I’m planning on a year now, no longer thinking just weeks/months. If it comes earlier great, but it’s fatiguing to think weeks/months and being disappointed day after day.

'Long' before this mess started we placed deposits for ~ October 01....we have to decide whether or not to pay the balance by the end of August.

Right now we're in limbo, ("Chubby Checker, call home"); I'm scheduled to be 78 immediately prior to the trip, with DW being 68 three weeks later.

I've recently discovered that life is likely finite and that I may not live forever.....therefore, Covid notwithstanding, this could well be my/our last time out anyway.

DW's mother, (who was only 12 years older than me), died (suffering from dementia) in late 2018, (and her father, at 94, is basically just 'surviving')....she doesn't look forward to possibly going either route, (especially her mother's), so do we take a chance and live our lives, (hoping that by October things have softened somewhat), or hide out and hope to go unnoticed?

 

[brewer12345]

It's been clear to me this is long term since January.

 

[PatrickA5]

From my post #1046:



And he flip-flops again, halfway this time:

Coronavirus in Ohio: DeWine does about-face on face masks — then, later, says workers must wear them



The protocol on the Responsible RestartOhio site now reads:



You can't make this stuff up.

Saw him on TV last night. He basically said that he got a LOT of grief for trying to require face masks for the general public and had no choice but cave.

There are large segments of the U.S. that just don't like being told what to do - even if it's for their own good.

 

[cathy63]

Thanks for posting this. This sounds like a plan for all those businesses to lose money while at the same time ensuring a miserable guest experience. I don't see how this would work in practice.

Well, none of those businesses are required to reopen at all. If Disney Corp does the math and decides it's losing less money now than it would by reopening Disney World with these limitations, then they can just stay closed until the restrictions are either partially or fully lifted. They'll be under pressure from FL state and local governments that are paying out a ton of unemployment and not getting any tax revenue, but I think Disney is big enough to just say no (despite recent speculation about an Apple takeover).