Short Memories?

[pb4uski]

I don't fear it and will live life, but I'm not going to be stupid about it either, and not take all safety avenues I can.

+1 There is a thin line between prudence and paranoia... I try my best to stay onsides.

 

[audreyh1]

Darwinism will take care of those not wearing masks and also not maintaining distance. The rest of us can just hope we don’t catch it from them.

Like many other ‘personal choice’ actions - I’d agree with this if we didn’t have to chip in substantially for their health care...

The other people they unknowingly infect may well suffer the most.

That’s what it really comes down to - the asymptomatic super spreaders. Behaving responsibly means that we try not to expose other people.

 

[Shredder]

Sad.

We’ll continue to wear masks in public, wash hands/use hand sanitizer, keep our distance (regardless of others), do takeout instead of dine in and consolidate trips out.

The precautions aren’t at all difficult to observe, and there’s still plenty we don’t know about SARS2, it’s sad most people already don’t care anymore.

Thank you for being responsible.

 

[Nemo2]

We don't wear masks, we don't own masks, and when we get curbside pickups we stand well away.

We walk, and avoid close contact with other people, as they do with us.

In fact I don't believe I've seen more than 8-10 people around here wearing masks, and they were mainly service personnel.

Oh...DW chuckled the other day when she noticed a woman kneeling and weeding her own garden while wearing a mask and swim goggles.

 

[REWahoo]

This thread illustrates that altruism may not be dead but it is definitely on a ventilator.

 

[Winemaker]

I was pleasantly surprised when the lockdowns began, people really were staying home judging by traffic and businesses did close. In essential stores and elsewhere more and more people were wearing masks, maintaining distance with/out floor marks and using hand sanitizer.

Then we started reopening phase 1 on May 8, and phase 2 on May 22. It wasn’t readily apparent at first - but it’s very clear now. We’re seeing fewer and fewer masks and over half the people don’t seem to care about distancing.

Employees are wearing masks, marks on the floor and plexiglass has gone up many places. Some businesses are seriously enforcing, some don’t seem to care at all - evidently it’s window dressing for some...

Sad.




We’ll continue to wear masks in public, wash hands/use hand sanitizer, keep our distance (regardless of others), do takeout instead of dine in and consolidate trips out.

The precautions aren’t at all difficult to observe, and there’s still plenty we don’t know about SARS2, it’s sad most people already don’t care anymore.

Midpack, I think the reason why folks are the way they are is the fact that the virus isn't a bogey man anymore. At first we thought it was a bioweapon that escaped from a despot lab in China, and was going to kill 3 million people. We were told it was't the flu, that people would dropping like flies, and wreak havoc on civilization. People have found out that it is no worse than the flu, most of the cases occurred in nursing homes, and all havoc is self inflicted. After a trip to my local Med Express yesterday for a foreign body in my eye, the doctor said that it has turned into a big nothing burger. 75% of the cases in their office have been mild or asymptomatic. None of his cases have been hospitalized. We have been at 139 cases, 5 deaths for a 212,000 population, for almost 2 weeks now. Most people wear masks here, but now that weather is nice, people don't see the threat, I know I don't. And I haven't felt threatened since this all began.

 

[audreyh1]

Oh...DW chuckled the other day when she noticed a woman kneeling and weeding her own garden while wearing a mask and swim goggles.

That gardener may well have recently discovered that wearing a mask and goggles prevents her allergies.

 

[brewer12345]

After the last few days, I figure memories will get refreshed good and hard in most major cities in about 6 weeks. Bon chance!

 

[MichaelB]

This thread illustrates that altruism may not be dead but it is definitely on a ventilator.

I agree. Not much evidence here (or elsewhere) of an effort to understand other people’s points of view, lots of talking past each other, a very selective use of facts combined with lots of truthiness, and an energetic excess describing views and behavior of others using terms that are demeaning.

 

[Nemo2]

That gardener may well have recently discovered that wearing a mask and goggles prevents her allergies.

Oh, there are many possibilities; DW just said that it looked amusing, whatever the rationale.

(Seeing someone walking down the road in a Donald Duck suit might look funny, but they could be off to entertain sick children through a window...the motive does not affect the observation.)

 

[neihn]

I have seen guys on motorcycle going at 70mph on i-75 without helmet and windshield. I guess those guys are not going to wear mask.

 

[Spock]

There are several reasons, probably as many as there are individuals making the choice.
* One big reason is certainly crisis fatigue. "To hell with it, I'll take my chances".
* The outright stupidity of some of the lockdown rules cost TPTB a lot of credibility... arresting people for being alone on an empty beach/playground/camp ground
The local mayor determined the rules for restaurants to re-open via a public poll on Facebook!!!
* Another credibility killer was this started out as a 14 day lock down. Now its indefinite and "until we have a vaccine". Nope... not going to play this game for another 18months to 5 years. We'll starve before then.
* The mask thing was a deal breaker for many for a lot of sub-reasons. From comfort/annoyance to down right ignorance of the intended purpose of the masks. Some think that because its not 100% protection its worthless.


I could go one, but I'll skip to my personal reasons:
I was an "early adopter" of the crisis back when it was in China only, even before it was on the cruise ships. I was a town crier that people weren't taking this seriously enough. When it hit US shores, one of the memorable news items was of a 30-40something year old male in NYC that dropped dead on the street after leaving an ER.


Now... from the data I've seen I've come full circle around to this was one big over reaction (discounting hoax and intentional theories) that the authorities are either embarrassed to admit or the local yokels are enjoying the power trip.

Two states (that I've found) published stats showing the average age of death was in the upper 70's, the co-morbidity info, etc. Certainly we need to quarantine nursing homes and the elderly/at risk need to take precautions. Society needs to help protect those at risk by providing services so they can quarantine effectively.

But this isn't an extinction of the human race event that it was originally portrayed to be. Given the number of people who test positive with NO symptoms (allegedly 35%?), the number of people who have minor stay at home flu symptoms, vs. the number of people who actually need to be in a hospital suggests to me that shutting down the economy and racking up all this debt was one big over reaction.

We are now shutting off our food supply closing meat packing plants based on people who "test positive" even though they may be completely asymptomatic. I don't want to see another "X tested positive" statistic in the news because that metric does not include how many even had symptoms... tell me how many people are actually hospitalized.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/07/8517...n-most-without-treating-any-covid-19-patients

Pennsylvania virus stats:
avg age of virus death: 79
68% of deaths came out of assisted living/eldercare type environments.
11% did NOT have "comorbidities" such as diabetes, HBP, etc.
Out of 37,000 hospital beds, 7% are occupied by CV patients.

 

[GravitySucks]

Not only short memeories, but actively rewriting history.
People were dying in hospital hallways.
100,000+ are dead.
Health care professionals were wearing garbage bags for PPE.
Masks are still being rationed for those HCPs.
And someone aboves doctors says it's all much ado about nothing? I'd get me a new doctor.

 

[Helen]

People have found out that it is no worse than the flu, most of the cases occurred in nursing homes, and all havoc is self inflicted.

I have not learned that this is no worse than the flu; I don't ever recall the flu causing 100k deaths in a 4 month period of time. We still don't know a lot about this virus.

And, according to this article, 42% of deaths are from nursing homes and assisted living facilities - that does not constitute most deaths.

https://freopp.org/the-covid-19-nursing-home-crisis-by-the-numbers-3a47433c3f70

 

[gwraigty]

Short memories? Lack of reading comprehension? Something's going on, but I don't know what it is. In early May, major businesses near me had professionally made signs/banners posted/affixed at their entrances asking customers to please wear a mask when entering. You couldn't miss them. Most customers wore masks. By late May, those signs were gone and only about 50% of customers wore masks.

At DD's workplace, every table has a professionally made large round colored sign affixed to the surface. You can't miss them. The green signs say that this table is available and is regularly cleaned and sanitized. The yellow signs say that this table is unavailable and thank you for social distancing. Yet, customers will sit wherever they want. They are social distancing when choosing their tables, so at least they're being mindful of that aspect. She told me once when the dining room was empty, a woman chose a table that had the yellow sign. On both sides of her were tables with green signs. DD isn't allowed to ask customers to move from a "wrong" table to a "right" table. So she makes sure that she cleans and sanitizes all the tables anyway.

They also have large green social distancing markers on the floor. It's getting steadily busier, so they sometimes have a few customers standing in a line. Some people stand on the markers. Others stand wherever they want, too close to the other customers. The social distancing markers are also marked One Way with an arrow. The professionally printed signs at the main door direct customers to move in one direction through the restaurant when entering and exiting. They don't pay attention. They enter and exit through whatever door they want to.

Sitting at the "right" table, entering through one door and exiting through a different door, are such easy things to do. Defiance? Force of habit? I don't know. I don't feel especially inconvenienced by making a few simple adjustments.

On my trip to Walmart last week, I noticed most people obeying the one way traffic arrows, but maybe that was just a coincidence at the time I happened to be there. I only noticed it because it was odd to see so many people doing that.

Maybe a lot of people don't understand that it's not necessarily the idea of a particular business to mandate these things. It's the government mandating that businesses do these things as a condition of reopening.

 

[Midpack]

FWIW

Sitting at the "right" table, entering through one door and exiting through a different door, are such easy things to do. Defiance? Force of habit? I don't know. I don't feel especially inconvenienced by making a few simple adjustments. I agree. While I believe it’s not as bad as we originally thought, and we should be reopening - it could have been much worse without lockdowns, masks, etc. But while there’s still much we don’t know, why not continue with masks, cleaning and distancing to reduce risk and improve the odds of continuing reopening - just seems prudent. That’s what’s bewildering you me. Same reason I always wear my seatbelt while driving though I’ve only been in 1 minor accident in 66 years.

Maybe a lot of people don't understand that it's not necessarily the idea of a particular business to mandate these things. It's the government mandating that businesses do these things as a condition of reopening. And once again we see mandates that can’t be enforced which erodes our compliance with all mandates. Some/many merchants are saying and doing the “right things” and not enforcing them at all - though they’re caught in between, they risk alienating customers...

 

[gwraigty]

And, according to this article, 42% of deaths are from nursing homes and assisted living facilities - that does not constitute most deaths.

https://freopp.org/the-covid-19-nursing-home-crisis-by-the-numbers-3a47433c3f70

The graphic in that article shows that the percentage varies widely by state and bears out what I've posted about 70% of deaths in my state coming from the nursing homes. One source put the number at 79% in Ohio.

 

[gwraigty]

Now... from the data I've seen I've come full circle around to this was one big over reaction (discounting hoax and intentional theories) that the authorities are either embarrassed to admit or the local yokels are enjoying the power trip.

+1 to your entire post. The above is a great summation of how I've begun to feel.

 

[Dreamer]

Should of said that I am praying that none of my friends get it. Thanks

 

[Nemo2]

Should of said that I am praying that none of my friends get it. Thanks

I was wondering about how you felt concerning your enemies.

 

[Rianne]

The following a bit long. It was posted in our local Nextdoor forum by a nurse. It gave me pause since I didn't understand what actually happens when one is on a ventilator. I'm thinking I want to be put down humanly before going through this. I'm one of those who likely would not survive this virus.



"For people who don't understand what it means to be on a ventilator but want to take the chance to go out or back to work.... For starters, it is NOT an oxygen mask that is put over the mouth while the patient comfortably lies down and reads journals. Ventilation for Covid-19 is a painful intubation that goes down your throat and stays there until you live or you die. It is done during anesthesia for 2 to 3 weeks without moving, often upside down, with a tube deposited from your mouth up to the air pipe and allows you to breathe to the rhythm of the lung machine. Patient can't talk or eat or do anything natural - the machine keeps you alive. Discomfort and pain they feel from this means that medical experts must administer sedatives and pain meds to ensure pipe tolerance as long as the machine is needed. It's like being in an artificial coma.



After 20 days from this treatment, a young patient loses 40% muscle mass and gets trauma in the mouth or voice cords, as well as possible lung or heart complications. It is for this reason that old or already weak people can't stand treatment and die. Many of us are in this boat...so stay safe if you don't want to take the chance to end up here. This is NOT the flu! They put a tube in your stomach, either through your nose or skin for liquid food, a sticky bag around your butt to collect diarrhea, one to collect urine, an IV for liquids and meds... ...an A-line to monitor your BP it is completely dependent on finely calculated with doses, teams of nurses, CRNA and MA to move your limbs every two hours and lie on a carpet circulating ice cold liquid to help reduce your 104° degree temp. All of this while your loved ones cannot even come to visit. You will be alone in a room with your machine. Or your mother will. Or your father. Or your son or daughter. Or wife or husband. But...you think wearing a mask is uncomfortable and humiliating. Ok"

 

[gwraigty]

Yes, Midpack, the businesses are caught between a rock and a hard place. I want to follow the mandates for the sake of those businesses being able to remain open and out of respect for what the employees are having to deal with. It's got little to do with my beliefs.

 

[gwraigty]

The following a bit long. It was posted in our local Nextdoor forum by a nurse. It gave me pause since I didn't understand what actually happens when one is on a ventilator. I'm thinking I want to be put down humanly before going through this. I'm one of those who likely would not survive this virus.



"For people who don't understand what it means to be on a ventilator but want to take the chance to go out or back to work....

I've genuinely wondered about this idea some have that people always have a choice to stay home. I've seen news reports of nurses in tears who are begging people to stay home, sometimes angrily. I've seen pictures of them holding up signs that read something like, I Go To Work For You, Now You Stay Home For Me. Granted, those things are out of context and maybe they're talking about patients who have been out partying in large groups unnecessarily or something. Does the nurse who posted that really think that working has been a choice for everyone else?

 

[statsman]

Another credibility killer was this started out as a 14 day lock down. Now its indefinite and "until we have a vaccine". Nope... not going to play this game for another 18months to 5 years. We'll starve before then.

This has been my main thought for several weeks now. I don't believe this was a typical flu. Probably closer to the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 than usual. But some of the early estimates, like 1.2-1.4 million deaths in the US alone with strict social distancing (which we never came close to doing), may end up being off by a factor of 8-10.

The part that I find disconcerting is that the medical community by and large still doesn't have a solid grasp of this virus. Consensus keeps changing. I recall some of the earlier discussions saying the virus could survive on a surface for a long time. That sent people into a panic. Recently, they've indicated not so much, that most of the transfer is from person-to-person.

What I'm watching now is South Korea. According to many, one of the models for how we were supposed to react to the virus as a society. They opened up their schools recently, only to see an immediate spike in cases, their biggest in weeks. Their schools have been shut down again. It is almost as if this virus is not going away until it was made its way through most of the population.

 

[cathy63]

... The part that I find disconcerting is that the medical community by and large still doesn't have a solid grasp of this virus. Consensus keeps changing...

But, that's exactly how science works! Make the best deductions you can from the facts at hand and then go out and learn some more facts and make some new deductions. Apply your tweaks to the previous theories, and occasionally come up with a whole new revolutionary idea. Repeat ad infinitum.

How long did it take to gain consensus on the cause of AIDS and the transmission mechanisms for HIV? How long to find effective treatments? How about an effective vaccine? The process now is not so different from what it was when AIDS was emerging back in 1981, except that now we're all watching it happen in real time at high speed in a high communications environment. Scientists haring off in all directions and testing many outlandish theories is not a new thing. In the past a lot of ideas would have been shot down, or at least refined, during peer reviews, but now many of them are getting out via pre-publication servers where we can all consume them.

This environment is great for people who like knowing about all the ideas are out there and understand that most of them are eventually going to be proven wrong. It's definitely made things harder for people who prefer certainty and only want to hear about likely answers though.