Do you wear a mask in stores?

Wait a minute. How do you drink coffee without pulling down the mask? Are you not supposed to drink coffee in public there?

Ready said:

Wait a minute. How do you drink coffee without pulling down the mask? Are you not supposed to drink coffee in public there?

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You don’t. Drink it at home.

Sanstar said:

I don’t know how to start a new topic but am wondering what ideas others have about a post-CV celebration. In our case am starting discussions with family about a survivors family reconnection and reunion; immediate family with spouses and grandchildren- all expenses paid (blow that dough) long weekend or similar event. Goal is to lift spirits, create hope for the future and have a bit of fun. May also clear a bucket list trip (Lake Louise) if the family chooses it.

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If you all test negative for CV or have had it and developed immunity then go for it! Just stay away from other people.

dd564 said:

I did not wear a mask last night when I went to the store and I probably won't. If I cough, I'll cough into my sleeve or shirt / jacket and maintain proper distancing as best as possible.

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I think that very soon, many establishments will not let you in without a mask. Stores are on the front lines and I don’t even want to think about what would happen if our food supply gets disrupted much more than it already has. If the stores don’t mandate it, I’m sure it won’t be long before people are actually confrontational about it.

tulak said:

It's silly to think that it wouldn't help at least some. Sure, it might not be a 100%, but even at a lower rate there's going to be a benefit. Every little bit helps.

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This is one of the things that upsets me greatly. At first, they said, no need to wear a mask. It won’t help you to not get the virus. But, where were the people telling us that wearing a mask would minimize the spread? I would have much rather worn a mask every time I left the house than to have the entire country grounded. I have no figures to back this up, but I bet a strategy of work from home if you can, wear a mask any time you leave your house and anyone in a high risk category stays home would have been as good or better than what we ended up doing and continue to do. Masks should be as mandatory right now as the stay at home orders. Much less of an intrusion on liberty than being told to stay home.

I haven't worn a mask in stores yet. I can see it coming soon though. Our governor recommended that people start doing so in yesterday's press conference, but only homemade cloth masks, not the surgical or N95 masks the health care workers need. The health director even said that they won't protect you from getting the virus. It's more to prevent us from passing the virus to others. Which seems like a contradiction to me.

So now I have to figure out if I can fashion one at home using one of the many online guides. My main concern is not being one of the few not wearing one and getting attacked over it or having stores refuse to let people in unless they're wearing a mask.

Jerry1 said:

I think that very soon, many establishments will not let you in without a mask. Stores are on the front lines and I don’t even want to think about what would happen if our food supply gets disrupted much more than it already has. If the stores don’t mandate it, I’m sure it won’t be long before people are actually confrontational about it.

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My friend took this photo in NYC yesterday:

Jerry1 said:

This is one of the things that upsets me greatly. At first, they said, no need to wear a mask. It won’t help you to not get the virus. But, where were the people telling us that wearing a mask would minimize the spread?

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"These are not the droids you are looking for."

The WHO, CDC and Surgeon General deceived us a bit to try to keep the mask supply in the hands of health professionals.

Unfortunately, their deception has caused lost trust and anger. I don't blame you, Jerry.

Their biggest blunder was not seeing the middle ground we are in now, i.e. the "better than nothing" solution of home-made masks.

Jerry1 said:

This is one of the things that upsets me greatly. At first, they said, no need to wear a mask. It won’t help you to not get the virus. But, where were the people telling us that wearing a mask would minimize the spread? I would have much rather worn a mask every time I left the house than to have the entire country grounded. I have no figures to back this up, but I bet a strategy of work from home if you can, wear a mask any time you leave your house and anyone in a high risk category stays home would have been as good or better than what we ended up doing and continue to do. Masks should be as mandatory right now as the stay at home orders. Much less of an intrusion on liberty than being told to stay home.

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Basically, that is what S Korea is doing. Everyone wears a mask (I see from news pictures that everyone is even wearing a N95 mask) without a strick rule of lock-down the city/country.

JoeWras said:

The WHO, CDC and Surgeon General deceived us a bit to try to keep the mask supply in the hands of health professionals.

Unfortunately, their deception has caused lost trust and anger.

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I knew from the beginning that they were lying to us about masks. And with the TP hording clearly in view, I knew why they were doing it. I agree it totally breaks the trust and they should not have done it.

DW and I have been experimenting with different homemade masks for since the first of March, me on my 3D printer, and DW on her sewing machine. For the record, mine are more durable, but hers are more comfortable. I've even printed up some face shields that I will be giving away to local restaurants and grocery stores. DW checked with our local FD and they claim to have sufficient supplies.

Dalmore said:

I knew from the beginning that they were lying to us about masks. And with the TP hording clearly in view, I knew why they were doing it. I agree it totally breaks the trust and they should not have done it.

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I would agree with this to a point. But I think the general line of thinking prior to last week was that masks will not protect you from getting the virus, and if you are sick you should not go out in public anyway so no need to use a mask.

What was less well known was how many asymptomatic people were spreading the virus. So while the initial thinking was to inform the public that masks won’t protect them, the latest thinking is that masks will protect everyone around you if you are asymptomatic but still contagious.

The conflict is around the N95 masks because if worn correctly these could protect you from getting infected while out in public. But if the public started buying these it would take them away from health care workers. It seems like a mute point at this point though since N95 masks are no longer being supplied through any consumer channels and most online merchants have stopped selling them and removed resellers attempt to price gouge them.

Ready said:

I would agree with this to a point. But I think the general line of thinking prior to last week was that masks will not protect you from getting the virus, and if you are sick you should not go out in public anyway so no need to use a mask.

What was less well known was how many asymptomatic people were spreading the virus. So while the initial thinking was to inform the public that masks won’t protect them, the latest thinking is that masks will protect everyone around you if you are asymptomatic but still contagious.

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I think initially there were some who were underestimating the spread caused by asymptomatic people, yes. And yet, for a long time there were contradictions like:

* Do not wear a mask in public unless you are sick.
* When you go out, assume you have the virus and act accordingly.

The former says if you feel fine, don't wear a mask. The latter implies that *everyone* should wear a mask even if they feel fine.

I wonder, if wearing a face shield will be equally or even better than wearing a home-made mask? After all, face shield can effectively block a larger area of incoming or outgoing droplets, since no matter how tight the masks are, your face is still exposed outside of the masks.


https://www.amazon.com/BIBENE-Prote...1&keywords=face+shields&qid=1586099814&sr=8-8

fh2000 said:

I wonder, if wearing a face shield will be equally or even better than wearing a home-made mask? After all, face shield can effectively block a larger area of incoming or outgoing droplets, since no matter how tight the masks are, your face is still exposed outside of the masks.

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Good question. Remember early on, probably early February, there were some threads here poking fun at pictures of people in Asia wearing contraptions such as cut 2 liter bottles over their head?

I laughed with everyone else. I'm not laughing anymore.

You could always wear a motorcycle helmet I guess. That would probably provide even better coverage than the plastic shield.

I hope that stores will consider a policy requiring masks while shopping. I would love to see Costco implement one. Maybe it would reduce the foot traffic by eliminating all of the people who think they are too cool to wear a mask in public.

Dalmore said:

I knew from the beginning that they were lying to us about masks.

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ziggy29 said:

I think initially there were some who were underestimating the spread caused by asymptomatic people, yes. And yet, for a long time there were contradictions like:

* Do not wear a mask in public unless you are sick.
* When you go out, assume you have the virus and act accordingly.

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That's why you need to understand who's saying it an who they're trying to protect. Are they trying to protect "society" on average, or protect each individual?

To me, this is similar to the health guidelines that say don't get tested for "disease X" because it might end up costing "the system" and you more money. For example, there was (is?) a push to have men not get screened for prostate cancer. I ignored it. What's good for "society" (on average) isn't necessarily what's good for me personally. Where society might not be willing to pay for the fallout from false positives, second opinions, thoughtful exploration of options, I am.

Do Asian countries only use N95 or better masks?

I think there has been overall Western denial about this virus that has caused a lot of bad decisions to be made. Asia has an edge in this area, since they've dealt with viruses in the recent past and therefore are better prepared. We haven't. Even people here were talking about how masks wouldn't help not too long ago.

It's obvious now that we should all have been wearing any type of face covering from the get go. It's also obvious that we should have a lot more social distancing everywhere. This isn't something you can contain/control by half-baked measures. And unfortunately, by the time it becomes an issue, it's too late. And not to only pick on the US, look at Sweden. It looks like their experiment is about to be tested.

Personally, I spend a good amount of my time reading news out of Asia. They are further along in the curve than we are and it helps me get a better idea of what we can expect.

As for do masks help, lets go back to the Czech Republic. They've been mandated to wear a mask/face covering in public since March 18th. That's about 2.5 weeks, which might start to show measurable data.

From the JH website (I tried to create a table, but can't figure it out):

Czech: Population: 10.65mil, Confirmed Cases: 4,475, Deaths: 45, Rate: 1.39%

Other European countries with similar confirmed cases:

Denmark: Population: 5.6mil, Confirmed Cases: 4,561, Deaths: 179, Rate: 3.92%
Ireland: Population: 4.83mil, Confirmed Cases: 4,604, Deaths: 137, Rate: 2.98%

And based on similar populations:

Austria: Population: 8.82mil, Confirmed Cases: 11,907, Deaths: 204, Rate: 1.71%
Portugal: Population: 10.29mil, Confirmed Cases: 11,278, Deaths: 295, Rate: 2.62%
Belgium: Population: 11.4mil, Confirmed Cases: 19,692, Deaths: 1,447, Rate: 7.35%

I know I'm making assumptions about the data: each country is testing about the same and had their first exposure to the virus at about the same time. I'm assuming that it's about the same for each of these countries.

It looks promising for Czech.

sengsational said:

That's why you need to understand who's saying it an who they're trying to protect. Are they trying to protect "society" on average, or protect each individual?

To me, this is similar to the health guidelines that say don't get tested for "disease X" because it might end up costing "the system" and you more money. For example, there was (is?) a push to have men not get screened for prostate cancer. I ignored it. What's good for "society" (on average) isn't necessarily what's good for me personally. Where society might not be willing to pay for the fallout from false positives, second opinions, thoughtful exploration of options, I am.

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It's a good point and I agree, but what's the harm in telling people to wear any type of face covering?

It's not hard to make a mask at home. It doesn't have to be N95+. It also makes people feel better. Humans like to have control and if they wear a mask and see everybody else doing it, then it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling. Shared sacrifice is a great bonding tool.

I read a stat from the Czech Republic where over 90% people feel good about the handling of the virus (or something like that). I'm sure masks play a substantial part in that number.

Ready said:

I would agree with this to a point. But I think the general line of thinking prior to last week was that masks will not protect you from getting the virus, and if you are sick you should not go out in public anyway so no need to use a mask.

What was less well known was how many asymptomatic people were spreading the virus. So while the initial thinking was to inform the public that masks won’t protect them, the latest thinking is that masks will protect everyone around you if you are asymptomatic but still contagious.

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IMO the asymptomatic transmission was well known early on in reports from China, and later from Diamond Princess results - certainly the common initial 2 days of no symptoms while being contagious (testing positive) was well known. There has been a lot of discussion in the media throughout that time. Also people being sick with super mild symptoms easily assumed to be a simple cold. But the CDC chose to downplay it. Was it because they didn’t know what to recommend? Or fear of causing panic?

Born2BRetd said:

All of this makes me question why the government took so long to ask the public to wear masks. Why did they focus on telling us not to wear masks since in their convoluted reasoning they would only work for medical personnel. Most of us saw through the double speak and went out and bought masks creating the exact situation the government was afraid of: not enough masks for healthcare providers.

I'm glad that these designers are being so resourceful. I think it's great. However, do we not have scientists in this country? Why didn't the government put their minds to providing the knowledge on how to make adequate masks at home. The government shouldn't just tell people to wrap a bandana around their face. They should use science, find the right materials and tell people what to use.

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+1 I have more than a little experience in dealing with microbes although you only need a smattering of knowledge in logic to know they were blowing smoke up your shorts. I saw through all the BS spewed by the CDC and have lost all confidence in them AND the Federal Government.



Cheers!

I have not been wearing any face covering, but I plan to start. Better to be less at risk than not, I plan to just do a fabric make shift one, or wrap a scarf around multiple times, then directly into the wash when I get home.
The Surgeon General has an infomercial out showing how to make one out of a tee shirt and rubber bands, if you don't have a mask or unable to sew one.

tulak said:

As for do masks help, lets go back to the Czech Republic. They've been mandated to wear a mask/face covering in public since March 18th. That's about 2.5 weeks, which might start to show measurable data.

From the JH website (I tried to create a table, but can't figure it out):

Czech: Population: 10.65mil, Confirmed Cases: 4,475, Deaths: 45, Rate: 1.39%

It looks promising for Czech.

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Good post. I'm emphasizing the Czech part. Other countries may have an ego problem, well I'll include the U.S. in that. The sweet video the Czech's put out says a lot. I'm 1/2 Czech. Since visiting last June, going to museums and on historical tours, I became to understand the suffering they endured through many adverse situations. They are a humble people. And are grateful for their blessings.

In Prague we witnessed beggars on the street, on their hands and knees for hours waiting for a donation. When a small donation given, you'd think they were given a gold bullion. The Czech hesitate to flaunt their wisdom or intelligence. They're simple, but above all express humility in their daily lives. And thank you for reading my post.

Born2BRetd said:

https://totallythebomb.com/blue-shop-towels-may-be-the-best-material-to-use-when-making-face-masks

All of this makes me question why the government took so long to ask the public to wear masks. Why did they focus on telling us not to wear masks since in their convoluted reasoning they would only work for medical personnel. Most of us saw through the double speak and went out and bought masks creating the exact situation the government was afraid of: not enough masks for healthcare providers.

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Wasn't the Gov who screwed it up. The Gov doesn't know anything about this. They wouldn't know what to say. It was the Medical industry / awesome science people who were coming up with all this information and telling the Public Face people (Government/politicians) what to say. The Gov isn't educated enough in these matters to make this crap up. That's why they go to the medical people.

Badger said:

+1 I have more than a little experience in dealing with microbes although you only need a smattering of knowledge in logic to know they were blowing smoke up your shorts. I saw through all the BS spewed by the CDC and have lost all confidence in them AND the Federal Government.



Cheers!

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Agree 100 %. I'm shocked by the incompetence of the CDC in this. The U.S. and other countries that did not push masks and other measures to prevent asymptomatic transmission are now paying an unbearable price. Frustrating to the extreme.

tulak said:

Do Asian countries only use N95 or better masks?

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I only know about Japan, but they wear regular surgical type masks, not N95.

It seems a lot of people in Korea are wearing a mask called KF-94 masks (the equivalent of American N95). I think they manufacture those in their own country.