Might be heading for divorce...

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FIREd

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My emotions are pretty raw at the moment, so please be kind.

My marriage of 17 years is going through a very rough patch (the first and only in 17 years, so I am not used to this). Until a couple of months ago, I thought that we had a pretty solid marriage. DW retired in 2015, 5 years after me, and the past 3 years have been pretty blissful. People who see us together think that we are a tight couple (even now).

But tension has been building up lately. There are no screaming matches or broken china, just simmering tension. We had a talk about it and, all of the sudden, I realized that we are not on the same page anymore. I want a quiet, non stressful life with her but now she wants a go-go fun life with friends (we are supposedly both introverts, so that came as a surprise). At first, I thought that she might be going through a midlife crisis but it seems worse than that. Things were said, hurtful (but true) things, on both sides. This was the most serious talk we have ever had and it left me reeling, unsure on how we move on from this. I always assumed that we would grow old together, but I am not so sure anymore. I will try to do my best to save the marriage (give her more space, crank up the fun, etc...) but I am not so sure that she will. At any rate, even though the word was never uttered, the specter of divorce is quite real in my mind.

Which brings me to FIRE. I feel like my FIRE plan could now be turned upside down. How do I prepare for the worst? If we are heading for the rocks, do I start to batten down the hatches financially? I already have a plan B in place but, honestly, it would require some belt tightening for a few years for me to get back to what I would consider solid financial footing on my own (WR<3%). Protecting my financial future is my utmost priority.

Any suggestion or wisdom on how to work through this both in terms of relationship and money? I have already made an appointment with a therapist (just for me) to talk it out because right now I am totally confused.
 
I am so sorry to read this FIREd. I am glad to hear you are seeking out therapy. I hope you and your wife can find a path forward.
 
Very sorry you find yourself in this place.

My experience is that the one who has been unhappy has had longer to think about protecting (hiding assets). It might be worthwhile looking back at seeing if there is any unexplained withdrawals, etc that may have been amounts under the radar that have been going on for sometime.

I have always condsidered that entering retirement could be filled with land mines due to finances, more time spent together, adult children issues, etc. and our culture shows us that the number of divorces above 65 is increasing.

The grass looks greener on the other side until you scorch the earth to get to it. No good results from what you fear is your future, again my positive thoughts go out to you, as you may not get to control what happens.
 
The first thing you worry about is the dough?
 
Why not counseling for the both of you, together?

If it comes to divorce, don't try to hide any assets, and try to be fair. Try to do as much as you can without lawyers, and let them document it. If you have to negotiate through lawyers you both will lose.

On the latter topic, this part is telling:

Protecting my financial future is my utmost priority.
Click to expand...

At the very least, don't let that impact trying to come to a fair, inexpensive settlement. Any notion of "I worked harder for it" probably won't fly.
 
:(. Sorry to read this. Take care of yourself. I hope it was just an in-the-moment fight that you can work through, but hard on you both to tell in that it’s the only fight you’ve had in 17 years.
 
I’m sorry you are dealing with this. I’ve no direct experience in such. But I think marriage is worth fighting for! Glad to see you are apparently doing so, by going to counseling. By all means, don’t give up. It sounds early in the process. Fight for your marriage and future together. God bless!
 
I can't give you any advise if it comes to divorce. I would hope you both could have a talk and get it worked out or both agree to getting help. That maybe something that may not be easy to get done either.

I wish you the best and find what the cause is will be important and then it needs fixing.
 
I'm so sorry to hear that you're having to go through this. Never having had to go through a post-retirement divorce I can't offer any advice.
 
So sorry you’re going through this. I have no particular advice for you but just a perspective based on personal experience. My own husband is very introverted, possibly on the spectrum, who finds social interactions, particularly with large groups, uncomfortable. He, by all accounts, is a wonderful, stable and dedicated partner. He is kind and generous and has been an all around good husband. We’ve been together for 31 years. However, one major flaw is that he is content watching sports, the occasional movie and occasional road trip. I, on the other hand, am outgoing with lots of hobbies and I am open and warm with my affection. He doesn’t express much emotion but does lots of acts of kindness. Well from my perspective, that’s not enough, especially now that I will be an empty nester. I would prefer if he would engage in and savor life with me and the lack of warm emotional expression does become more important with the children gone. So my two cents - I can see why older couples separate and why some people have affairs. With that said, I have no intention of divorcing because I have a large group of friends and I am accepting that I will do lots of things without him.
 
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FIREd said:
My emotions are pretty raw at the moment, so please be kind.

My marriage of 17 years is going through a very rough patch (the first and only in 17 years, so I am not used to this). Until a couple of months ago, I thought that we had a pretty solid marriage. DW retired in 2015, 5 years after me, and the past 3 years have been pretty blissful. People who see us together think that we are a tight couple (even now).

But tension has been building up lately. There are no screaming matches or broken china, just simmering tension. We had a talk about it and, all of the sudden, I realized that we are not on the same page anymore. I want a quiet, non stressful life with her but now she wants a go-go fun life with friends (we are supposedly both introverts, so that came as a surprise). At first, I thought that she might be going through a midlife crisis but it seems worse than that. Things were said, hurtful (but true) things, on both sides. This was the most serious talk we have ever had and it left me reeling, unsure on how we move on from this. I always assumed that we would grow old together, but I am not so sure anymore. I will try to do my best to save the marriage (give her more space, crank up the fun, etc...) but I am not so sure that she will. At any rate, even though the word was never uttered, the specter of divorce is quite real in my mind.

Which brings me to FIRE. I feel like my FIRE plan could now be turned upside down. How do I prepare for the worst? If we are heading for the rocks, do I start to batten down the hatches financially? I already have a plan B in place but, honestly, it would require some belt tightening for a few years for me to get back to what I would consider solid financial footing on my own (WR<3%). Protecting my financial future is my utmost priority.

Any suggestion or wisdom on how to work through this both in terms of relationship and money? I have already made an appointment with a therapist (just for me) to talk it out because right now I am totally confused.
Click to expand...

I am so sorry to read this. Divorce can be so tragic for both.

As you probably remember, I divorced my late ex long ago (in 1998). He was not a bad person, and the divorce was relatively amicable, but it was still an emotionally hideous experience.

I wonder if there is some way that your DW can enjoy some time with other people, exploring her new-found extroversion, while you stay at home enjoying your peaceful life. Something that Frank and I have discovered, is that we don't have to spend all of our time together and we need time away from one another. I think that this is more apparent after retirement since there are no work duties to keep a couple apart for a while every day.

Hopefully the two of you can work this out and will not have to go through a divorce. If you do decide to divorce, I can assure you that there is life after divorce and things will get much better.
 
I would certainly go through some joint counseling before getting ahead of myself. And giving her some space to have fun traveling or whatever she wants to do would be a good idea. But what do I know......I've never been married.
 
My ex-wife left me after 23 years of marriage and 4 kids. I had lost my job that paid $67K back in 1998 due to a company takeover, very good money 20 years ago. Counseling did not work for us. I am now remarried for the past 8 years, retired, and could not be happier. I don't give advice when it comes to possible divorce (my ex-wife's friends apparently encourgaged her to divorce me if she was not happy). I never cheated on her or called her names or abused her in any way. I just went from an annual income of 67k to 7k. Money meant more to her than anything else. I was devastated. But now I am very happy. Each situation is different. Oh, if it should ever come to divorce, hire a good attorney. She did, I did not, and I lost tons of money as a result. But I eventually gained custody of my youngest children, which is worth more than money. She is still single living in a tiny, run down house. I built a new home 7 years ago, and love every minute of retirement. She is still working. I guess her friends' advice wasn't so great. Be careful who you listen to, and good luck. And know that life goes on, regardless, sometimes for the better!
 
RobbieB said:
The first thing you worry about is the dough?
Click to expand...

I hardly got that from the OP, rather, it's part of the situation that is more relevant here on the forum.

I think also, in any other distressing situation, I would gravitate towards "ok first, what can I do tactically in my own span of control to deal with a worst case scenario", as having a plan would then allow me to focus my energy on the larger issue. When you know you won't drown, it's easier to focus on improving your swimming vs. just staying afloat...

OP, I don't have any wisdom for you. DH and I are both introverts, though he is more than I am. And yes, with work behind us now, I can say I do more enjoy social outings than I used to. But I don't try to drag him along because I know he'd never enjoy himself. Instead, I go out for the occasional dinner with my sister or friends; I don't make him go to most group things if it's my friends, etc., but I'm totally fine with that and comfortable going solo to things. And I'm very happy to come home to him, and he gives me a good excuse to duck out early.

Best wishes to you to find a way through this difficult time.
 
Let me add my condolences to the others. I also understand finances being a top priority if the marriage can't be saved. When I divorced at age 43, there were four things I wanted to get: uninterfered-with custody of our 12-year old son, my fair share of the equity in the house, no future obligations towards my Ex and all the investments in my name. So, yeah, finances were a big deal for me, too, and I'm happy to say I got what I wanted in that area. The Ex took a lot of stuff he wasn't supposed to get but stuff was replaceable.

You need to do some of your own thinking/planning about what's fair and what would work although splitting the assets means you'll probably both be a little worse off (at least). Keep in mind that you may be spending less if you're a homebody and the joint income has been supporting the things she wants to do, and that if a divorce occurs you no longer face the scary scenario of one person in LTC and the other still in the house, and having to fund both.

I also HIGHLY recommend a negotiated settlement. You and your attorneys (or a mediator or all 3) sit down and write up a settlement about the split of property and future obligations, if any, and present it to the court. If it's reasonable, that's what you get. I was able to do that even though the divorce was a nasty one and was profoundly grateful. It wasn't everything I wanted (it never is) but I maintained some control over the big things.
 
I'll throw in a psychologist's perspective on the counseling issue. Good for you for making an appointment with a therapist, so you can get some support. But like others, I strongly recommend couples' therapy. Research shows that it's much more likely that the marriage will survive with couples' therapy, as opposed to individual therapists.

And I would search for someone who specializes in couples. That's not always a guarantee, of course (my ex and I saw a terrible couples' therapist who clearly couldn't or wouldn't tune in to either of us). Seek recommendations. Decide together whether or not you like the therapist.

I don't blame you for worrying over your financial situation! You worked hard and long for financial independence, and divorce certainly has the potential to ruin that. I also say +1 to collaborating as much as possible on settling your financial affairs together, if it should come to that. Divorce lawyers make their living on conflict. (In many states, there are attorneys specializing in collaborative divorce, and divorce mediation. Much better, but better yet if you can do it yourselves.)

Be kind to yourself (and to DW). Try to work something out together. You don't need to be joined at the hip - many relationships are improved by each partner having their own passions and pursuits.
 
Aerides said:
I hardly got that from the OP, rather, it's part of the situation that is more relevant here on the forum.
Click to expand...

Repeating the part I quoted:

Protecting my financial future is my utmost priority.
Click to expand...

It's understandable to ask questions about finances and divorce on this forum, rather than relationship advice. But that line certainly puts things in perspective, and not in a promising way for the marriage.
 
It’s gotta be give and take, financially, emotionally, physically... once one side feels they’re only giving and not receiving things go astray.

If you try to appease her with more “fun” she needs to realize what your giving her
 
Sorry to hear this, FIREd. I wish you the best.

There is a term for this: gray divorce. You might find some helpful tips in googling the subject.

https://www.equitablemediation.com/blog/gray-divorce

Of course, normal divorce advice applies, too.

p.s. I understand your concern about finances. Divorce can be extremely costly. I'd do what I needed, to minimize costs. Fortunately you are (I assume) past the point of having to pay child support and alimony.
 
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One thing I found out in life is that people change over time. Sometimes when you start out going down a path together, years later you end up with different views on the end of the journey. That may seem surprising, but it happens a lot.

I would suggest counseling and maybe you both can find a middle ground that works for both of you.
 
Sorry to hear about your situation FIREd.
I got divorced pre retirement and it did cost me enough dough, so do understand that aspect.
Perhaps it truly is your first and only rough patch. I hope things work out for you one way or the other.
You will always have your ER forum family to support you.
 
RunningBum said:
that line certainly puts things in perspective, and not in a promising way for the marriage.
Click to expand...

I look at it in a different way. I believe that in a successful marriage partnership, both partners will have a complete understanding of what their financial situation would be if the other partner dies, goes into a NH, there is a divorce or legal settlement, etc. When you reach the stage where you both can see that you and any dependent family would be fine even in the event of a death, health issue or divorce, it can ease troubled situations. It's similar to being able to not stress out over a stressful job once you are FI.
 
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Whatever you do, don’t move out. That gives her more control. Protect your assets. Make sure you watch the credit card and checking account. It’s an emotional time and she could have a good ole time with the money you worked hard to save. It’s your money too.

My advice comes from living through a divorce 20 years ago that in the end put me in a much better place. Now it’s about protecting yourself until either things settle down in reconciliation or move forward into a legal divorce. Be careful. I know too many people who got financially screwed in the early stages. You are responsible for her debt too until you are legally separated.
 
Let's choose a different day (or year) to criticize the OP for his financial concerns. He asked for our forbearance and kindness.

Personally, I have found that my mind always runs toward the practical in a crisis. Then I hate myself for "caring more about the money than about my dying sister" or whatever. It's an escape for the mind from the emotional pain. Different people handle emotional pain in different ways.

Maybe we could offer the benefit of the doubt? Just because it's the internet doesn't mean we can't be kind.
 
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