Interesting Times in Wisconsin..........

[FinanceDude]

Maybe Rahm Emmanuel can take them off our hands.............

 

[ziggy29]

Wisconsin can do the same but these legislators have supposedly crossed state lines and are holing up in Chicago. Illinois isn't going to extradite in this matter although I wish they would.

I don't know Wisconsin's rules for such a thing, but I know politicians changing parties occurs from time to time. Is there something preventing one Republican from temporarily switching parties and showing up for the vote?

 

[FinanceDude]

I don't know Wisconsin's rules for such a thing, but I know politicians changing parties occurs from time to time. Is there something preventing one Republican from temporarily switching parties and showing up for the vote?

Don't know, but I don't think Walker wants any theatrics, there's enough staging going on to put Broadway to shame..........

 

[youbet]

I don't know Wisconsin's rules for such a thing, but I know politicians changing parties occurs from time to time. Is there something preventing one Republican from temporarily switching parties and showing up for the vote?

That isn't the problem Zig..... They don't have the necessary number of legislators in attendance in aggregate to conduct business.

 

[REWahoo]

Wisconsin can do the same but these legislators have supposedly crossed state lines and are holing up in Chicago. Illinois isn't going to extradite in this matter although I wish they would.

Maybe they've pulled the same trick a group of Democrat TX state Senators (AKA "the Killer Bees") did in 1979 when they fled rather than vote on a bill:

The senators then revealed that the hiding place that had flummoxed the police was right in Austin, just three miles from the red granite state capitol—as the bee flies.

Nation: Flight of the Killer Bees - TIME

 

[youbet]

Maybe Rahm Emmanuel can take them off our hands.............

No thanks!

BTW, did you notice in the Chicago mayoral election results that there was no Republican candidate? No Independent? Only Democrats.

When the media announced Emanuel's victory Wednesday morning, they announced in a tone implying he had won out over the "bad guys." Of course, those "bad guys" were Dems. But wait, Rahm is a Dem....... WTF!

At least we Independents benefit in one way from this. When things go to hell, there is no finger pointing about which party is to blame. There is only one party in Chicago. If you like the way something is going, give the Dems credit! If you see something that sucks, blame the Dems! It's their city.

Still, you can have your AWOL legislators back. We have our own problems.

 

[ERD50]

I guess the alternative is to lay off teachers. Is it better to get laid off or make concessions on collective bargaining, which brought us to this point in the first place?

In our district, the Union decided that teacher layoffs were better than simply agreeing to sit down and consider a pay freeze for a few years. The teachers already had several years of automatic 5% (or 4%, I forget offhand) raises, and the District didn't have money to fund the salary increases for the next year. The District said either we freeze pay or we cut 5% of the classes (to lay off a teacher, they needed to cut the classes - hurting the kids).

Union wouldn't even consider it. And we were talking a few year freeze, not giving up collective bargaining, no pay cuts, no additional payments or anything. And the kids suffered because classes they want to take are cut. And some teachers suffered. Actions like this do nothing to improve the image of Unions in the eyes of the parents who often had to accept pay cuts and/or layoffs in their lives, or in the eyes of students who had a class cut that they wanted to take, or saw their favorite teacher cut. New teachers probably were not very happy either.

-ERD50

 

[youbet]

ERD50....

Couldn't they simply raise your real estate taxes? You know, so those rich home owners could "pay their fair share" and not be the cause of the kids getting an inferior education?

 

[ERD50]

ERD50....

Couldn't they simply raise your real estate taxes? You know, so those rich home owners could "pay their fair share" and not be the cause of the kids getting an inferior education?

Heh-heh, I guess they could - well, they do raise my Prop Tax almost every year (typically ~ 5%). To be honest, I don't even know exactly how they set my Prop tax rates. In IL, a high % of school funding is local, so the vast majority of the bill (>80%?) is the school district. I'd have to look, obviously they can't just pass on any expense or there wouldn't be a shortage. I know there are referendums for capital expenditures, operating expenditures might be by referendum also, but there must be some variable element to that.

In the tax thread, there was some discussion about Property Taxes being a flat rate. It is interesting that Property taxes and our IL State tax are flat rates (once you get above the standard deductions). Not sure why these are not also modestly progressive.

Bottom line, would I vote to increase my taxes to provide for automatic salary increases for the teachers in our District? No. If I had the opportunity, I'd vote to make the salaries more open market, so we could pay more (if needed) to get teachers with the qualifications that we might need in certain subject areas, and to save money in areas where supply/demand would allow.

-ERD50

 

[youbet]

ERD50.....

Actually a "progressive" real estate tax structure has been discussed in Illinois. Brackets would be set up so that expensive homes would pay a larger percentage of their value in annual real estate taxes than more modest homes. I think it was dropped, for now, because of the recession and housing bust and the lack of a reliable system for estimating home values for taxation purposes on a state wide level.

There was also discussion about our state income tax converting to "progressive." Yet when the gigantic increase was recently put in place, it was just a 67% increase in the existing flat tax. I think the issue there involved trying to determine where the brackets should be. That would have been way, way too complicated for out legislature in Springfield. They only understand simple concepts like graft, patronage, payola, boondoggles, vote tampering and sending non-Machine supporters to sleep with the fish......

 

[youbet]

Maybe Rahm Emmanuel can take them off our hands.............

You know, thinking about it, Dem vs Dem fights in Illinois are vicious. They're a lot like Family vs Family wars within the Mafia. For example, look at how the Dems attacked fellow Dem Gov Blagojevich.

Perhaps your Dems came down here seeking protection from our Dems and maybe our Dems didn't like them very much since they're cheeseheads and all that. Maybe your Dems won't be coming home, ever. Maybe they're getting some well deserved eternal rest......

 

[Texas Proud]

There's a lot of truth to that GregLee. It's analogous to when a company becomes so successul in business that they force all competition out and then enjoy a monopoly. The gov't is forced to step in and enforce anti-monopoly legislation which is definitely not good for the monopolistic company but does help the public.

Sometimes the reward for being "too good" is getting your legs cut off at the knee. And that's whether you're an extremely successful business that gains a monopolistic situation or an extremely successful union that forces pay and benefits the payers cannot afford.

Actually... that is wrong... if a company is too good and becomes a monopoly... the gvmt will not step in unless they use those monopoly powers to keep someone else from getting in....

It is hard for the ones who are big from not trying to squash the competition... so in reality most are gone after by the gvmt... but Microsoft is pretty much a monopoly and has remained so for many years... they usually get a slap on the wrist now and then, but nothing like the AT&T breakup is happening...

 

[youbet]

Actually... that is wrong... if a company is too good and becomes a monopoly... the gvmt will not step in unless they use those monopoly powers to keep someone else from getting in....

It is hard for the ones who are big from not trying to squash the competition... so in reality most are gone after by the gvmt... but Microsoft is pretty much a monopoly and has remained so for many years... they usually get a slap on the wrist now and then, but nothing like the AT&T breakup is happening...

Once a company becomes the dominant player easily setting prices and controlling suppliers and distribution chains, the remaining competition frequently cries foul to the gov't on an ongoing basis. As you point out, it's happening to Microsoft right now and requires their attention.

The Wis public employee unions have been very successful. They've done an A+ job of leveraging the negotiation advantage caused by their members' public sector employment status. Finally they're drawing attention from both tax payers and law makers and it will be interesting to see where this goes.

 

[samclem]

It looks like the wheels are in motion for a recall election against some of the runaway legislators in Wisconsin.

Journal Sentinel Story

The clock is now running for groups trying to collect enough signatures to trigger recall elections against seven Democratic senators, state officials said today.
Reid Magney, spokesman for the Government Accountability Board, said local groups have officially registered recall committees with his agency to try to recall Sen. Bob Wirch of Kenosha and Jim Holperin of Eagle River.


In addition, a Utah group, American Recall Coalition, has registered electronically to set up recall committees against Wirch and five other Senate Democrats - Lena Taylor of Milwaukee, Mark Miller of Monona, Julie Lassa of Stevens Point, Fred Risser of Madison and Dave Hansen of Green Bay.



Magney said his office is still waiting to receive paper registrations from American Recall Coalition but that the out-of-state group may begin collecting signatures for the recall elections in those districts.



"We thought we were going to have a quiet time after the election," Magney said. "Apparently not."
. . .

Democrats and labor unions are also weighing whether to recall up to six Senate Republicans for supporting Walker's plan. Among those being targeted is Sen. Alberta Darling of River Hills.

The campaign that never ends has come to Wisconsin.

 

[FinanceDude]

The Assembly passed Walkers bill in full context last night, after more than 60 hours of debates, fillibustering, speeches, amendment discussions, etc. The vote was 51-17 in favor of the bill. There is a viral video of the vote, Democrats screaming at the top of their lungs at the Republican members of the Assembly. Wonder if my son's social studies class is still going to the Capitol for a tour in two weeks, to see democracy in action............

 

[Westernskies]

The Assembly passed Walkers bill in full context last night, after more than 60 hours of debates, fillibustering, speeches, amendment discussions, etc. The vote was 51-17 in favor of the bill. There is a viral video of the vote, Democrats screaming at the top of their lungs at the Republican members of the Assembly. Wonder if my son's social studies class is still going to the Capitol for a tour in two weeks, to see democracy in action............

They'd be screaming at the budget cuts if the bill hadn't passed...no concept of fiscal responsibility.

Ahhh, Wisconsin Democracy in action...you should take your kids (offer to chaperone the whole class!) to see how their teachers and legislators are acting; nothing like seeing their role models practicing high-drama hysterics and running away from home. Too bad it isn't Taiwan or Korea, where they settle their legislative differences by throwing fists, shoes, crockery and food...the kiddies might really enjoy that spectacle.

 

[MasterBlaster]

The Wisconsin Senate still has to weigh in on this one

This story will go on and on.

 

[Texas Proud]

The Wisconsin Senate still has to weigh in on this one

This story will go on and on.

Naaa... it will be settled in the near future one way or the other... to much pressure for the stalemate to continue... once workers start to get pink slips I am sure the dems will be back to vote....

 

[Traeger]

I heard that federal employees don't have collective bargaining rights, is that true?

True in the sense of salary and retirement, although they can negotiate about some fairly petty rules such as compressed work schedules.

As a point of reference all new fed employees since the mid 1980's get 1% per year of service (high 3, partially indexed for inflation) in a defined benefit for which they pay 1% of their salary and up to 5% match on their 401K. Social security is also paid.

At the time it was considered a cheap retirement plan, now it appears to the the benchmark for state employees.

 

[Mulligan]

They'd be screaming at the budget cuts if the bill hadn't passed...no concept of fiscal responsibility.

Ahhh, Wisconsin Democracy in action...you should take your kids (offer to chaperone the whole class!) to see how their teachers and legislators are acting; nothing like seeing their role models practicing high-drama hysterics and running away from home. Too bad it isn't Taiwan or Korea, where they settle their legislative differences by throwing fists, shoes, crockery and food...the kiddies might really enjoy that spectacle.

The ironic part of all of this, is that these issues should have been aurgued about 2 years ago instead of now. The states mostly just plugged the gaps in their budgets the past 2 years with the federal stimulus money sticking their heads in the sand delaying the inevitable.

 

[FinanceDude]

The ironic part of all of this, is that these issues should have been aurgued about 2 years ago instead of now. The states mostly just plugged the gaps in their budgets the past 2 years with the federal stimulus money sticking their heads in the sand delaying the inevitable.

+1 Could not agree more. So, did the stimulus actually "stimulate" any economic activity? Not really..........

There was another story in the news. 150 teachers are going to be laid off regardless of the dealing in Madison, because they were hired with stimulus dollars, and those dollars are gone..........

 

[samclem]

VP Biden was very clear in stating that the stimuls was targeted to provide union jobs.

Here's a story from a construction trade magazine.
In part:

"We're going to make sure that in every policy, every decision, we don't lose sight of the folks that brought us to the dance," he [Biden] said -- a reference to organized labor's support of the Obama-Biden ticket. "And toward that end, we have to make sure that the jobs we're creating come with fair wages and decent benefits."

Biden focused on the stimulus package, noting it will send taxpayer money through the pipeline to union jobs and specifically those in the building trades unions. "The focus of this administration the first month has been to rebuild American roads, bridges, waterways -- jobs for the building trades union," he said.

He said he and President Barack Obama will uphold the National Labor Relations Act designed to "encourage collective bargaining, encourage unions." He said it's not enough for corporations and government to "tolerate" workers forming unions -- "after using every trick in the book" to block them.

In addition to championing construction jobs, Biden described teachers, police officers, firefighters, hospital workers and factory workers as the "nation's heart and soul."

"Investing and getting more people access to broadband -- communication workers. Creating clean energy economy -- jobs that require electrical workers to modernize the grid, steel workers to go out and build the wind turbines, laborers to install the solar panels. Making our communities safer, jobs that require getting cops on the beat and keeping firefighters in firehouses. That's what we're trying to do," he said.

Maybe it's part of the whole "Green Jobs" thing--taking my green tax dollars and recycling them into union dues and donations to elect politicians favored by "the machine."

It stinks. Like Chicago ward politics, but expanded to a national scale.

 

[Mulligan]

+1 Could not agree more. So, did the stimulus actually "stimulate" any economic activity? Not really..........

There was another story in the news. 150 teachers are going to be laid off regardless of the dealing in Madison, because they were hired with stimulus dollars, and those dollars are gone..........

Since they were essentially fired when they were hired, probably should have used the money instead to work on the infrastructure. At least there would be something from it!

 

[rescueme]

+1 Could not agree more. So, did the stimulus actually "stimulate" any economic activity? Not really..........

Agree. It was just another political ploy (regardless of party) to show that they were concerned with "the people"...

 

[Texas Proud]

The ironic part of all of this, is that these issues should have been aurgued about 2 years ago instead of now. The states mostly just plugged the gaps in their budgets the past 2 years with the federal stimulus money sticking their heads in the sand delaying the inevitable.

I will actually disagree with this statement only because of history...

Most of the time when a recession has hit... and there was money from the Feds to keep state and local gvmts going... the economy turned around in time for their tax income to increase and allow them to kick the can down the road more...

This time the recession was very deep... and the recovery slow... so revenue has not yet come back and we are not willing to support another trillion dollars to kick the can down the road....

So, looking at history, they did what most all politicians have been taught... wait until the last minute and hope to get bailed out... the white knight just did not come...



To me, one of the things a good politician or manager should do is get rid of something that is not needed in good times or bad... don't wait only for the bad times to do what is necessay... that means cutting dated or no longer needed programs even if you are running a surplus...