Documentary "Broken Eggs"

[tmm99]

Sorry, I posted this...bitter much?


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I think it's great you started this thread - it generated tons of great discussions!

 

[robnplunder]

I meant most people here are in the top half of IQs, not necessarily the top half of empathy.

I think people lose 30% of their empathy when they post on-line. Of course, not the folks in here.

Top half of IQs? I am not so sure. People lose brain cells as they get older. Some of the posters here may have started with an IQ of 150 at birth but aging may have taken their tolls ....

 

[tmm99]

The comments above raise a question I have: Have we created a society that is to complex for the average person to understand?

I do think things are more complicated definitely - People used to just save money at a bank in a saving's account. Some people didn't get pensions in the old days too, but they just put money in the bank instead. And they called it their retirement fund. They didn't live as long either and their healthcare cost was low.

What I am perplexed about is something though - these people who were on the documentary are educated people (and I know tons of people just like them) who don't seem to understand simple financial consequences.

I say to my co-workers that they should educate themselves on asset allocations and such (I don't know much, but I know a whole lot more than they do) and their response is usually "I am too busy". One guy had all his money in a stable value fund until about 3 months ago (He put it there AFTER the market tanked in 2009 and forgot about it) and he is saying he has no time to be looking at this stuff, and I was like, really? He takes small part time jobs to make small money...None of these makes sense to me.

 

[Cobra9777]

I enjoyed the film. But then again, I watch a lot of left-leaning and/or conspiracy-theory documentaries. They're way more fun than regular TV programs.

I tend to align with most of the comments here. I do think financial education is critical to avoid a proliferation of these stories. I went to high school in the late 70s, and we were required to take a course called Civics in either the Junior or Senior year. I can't remember if it was a whole year or just one semester. But I distinctly remember that one six-week period was dedicated to "personal finance." It covered such things as how to write a check, open a bank account, get a loan, file a tax return, contracts, insurance, savings, etc. It was pretty basic stuff, and I don't remember if it got into investments or retirement planning beyond, What is a stock? and What is a bond?

But when my oldest started high school and I was looking over the curriculum, I remember asking my wife if Civics was no longer required. She also took Civics in high school. I actually asked the guidance counselor about it and she pointed us to an elective that combined these concepts with an intro to business. She said it's often canceled because very few students sign up.

Needless to say, my kids got most of their financial education from me. I also loan them books and we discuss their 401K, AA, LBYM, etc. I'm quite sure they'll be fine. I got none of this from my parents. They pretty-much lived paycheck to paycheck and had no knowledge of saving or investing. I think people tend to repeat whatever their parents do, so this cycle of financial ignorance gets passed down from generation to generation. I think this is one case where government involvement might be beneficial. At least bring back the Civics class in high school. I don't really know if it made a difference with me or not. But it certainly opened my mind to some terms and concepts that were never discussed around the dinner table.

 

[jkern]

I believe the movie had very little to do with how to save for retirement. It was about unexpected medical bills, divorce and possible disability, long term unemployment and the governments ineptitude with respect to Social Security.

All of these were potential retirement killers for decades upon decades. These are social and political issues that affect retirement, not retirement issues in and of itself.

 

[Birdie Num Nums]

I believe the movie had very little to do with how to save for retirement. It was about unexpected medical bills, divorce and possible disability, long term unemployment and the governments ineptitude with respect to Social Security.

All of these were potential retirement killers for decades upon decades. These are social and political issues that affect retirement, not retirement issues in and of itself.

And, for that one SF area couple in their 60s, that's a lotta house (with a $600/month power bill!). They say they can't get out, but why not?

 

[meierlde]

Re Cobra9777 last post. It begs the question of why home economics was abolished from classes, rather than being extended to boys as well. Personal financial management would fit well there, along with teaching folks at least how to do minor clothes repair, cooking, etc. Essentially it would be a living in modern society course, and makes sense in about the 8th grade (where home ec used to be for girls). Since 20% plus of guys in this generation are never going to marry if current trends continue, guys need to know this stuff as much as girls. Plus you could put in at least basic instruction in how a car works, etc, aimed here at providing knowledge in how to detect when you are being flimflamed by a service provider. Now of course all this stuff is available online, but many will claim they are to busy.

 

[Walt34]

And, for that one SF area couple in their 60s, that's a lotta house (with a $600/month power bill!). They say they can't get out, but why not?

IIRC they were underwater on it.

Re Cobra9777 last post. It begs the question of why home economics was abolished from classes, rather than being extended to boys as well.

For at least a while at my old HS they relabeled Home Ec and called it Bachelor Survival. Good thing to do, don't know if they still offer it. I heard it was a very popular class.

 

[MuirWannabe]

For at least a while at my old HS they relabeled Home Ec and called it Bachelor Survival. Good thing to do, don't know if they still offer it. I heard it was a very popular class.

Good idea. While I understand and agree with the point for home economics, as a young teenage boy I wouldn't have been caught dead in a class named that. I was probably the one making fun of any boy in such a class.

The world is a complicated place. Researching and learning about HVAC systems has been a recent reminder for me of this fact. It probably has always been complicated although perhaps it has grown to be much more complicated in this modern world. While education can help, you can't teach everyone everything. At some point it comes down to basic common sense and intelligence navigating you through all of life's challenges. Not sure how your teach that.

Muir


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[Walt34]

At some point it comes down to basic common sense and intelligence navigating you through all of life's challenges. Not sure how your teach that.

For some, there is inherently no hope:

You just can't fix stupid... - YouTube

 

[jkern]

And, for that one SF area couple in their 60s, that's a lotta house (with a $600/month power bill!). They say they can't get out, but why not?

I recognize the area where the older couples house is located. It is an upscale, very expensive area (Orinda/Moraga). First, the property values there did not drop by 50%. It was much closer to 25% to 35%. Second, by the time this film was done, the property values were almost fully recovered. It gets a little hot in that area and people will run their a/c most of day during the summer. However, if you are trying to cut back, it's not too hot that you cannot find alternatives to a/c. They can probably lower their electric bill to around $100 to $150 per month if they so desired. And my biggest pet peeve, they should not be buying a $1M+ home with 25% or less down when they are 61 and 57 years old.

 

[retire2020]

I just watched it. First thing that jumped out at me was how everybody seemed to have a paper cup of starbuck's coffee. That'd be the first thing to go if I needed to improve my financial situation!

+1 Music Teacher who earns 23K but owned a MacBook(way too expensive than other laptops) besides sipping Starbucks. IMO, Cost of education is way out of control… How does one save for retirement when they need to secure their Kids' college education?

 

[Lancelot]

watching it now. so far there is very little financial info on any of these financial failures.

while i feel bad for them i somehow think they committed their own financial suicide.all well and good that woman loves her cello . but making 23k a year you would think it would occur to her to find a real job with real money.

just once i want to see folks wqho were successful at saving and retiring.

I agree.

She followed her heart and is employed in a profession she seems to love, but is not well paid. Other folks choose/accept work in a factory because it pays better.

We all make our choices and no, we may not have it both ways.

 

[LitGal]

Between SS and other available social services nobody is going to starve. Even here in WV, not known for high incomes and generous social services, that is the case. And if someone didn't plan ahead and can't afford to cruise the world in retirement or keep their mcmansion, well, that's a situation of their own making.

And I see it with other people I know and relatives, as we've all discussed in other threads. They think the solution to every impulsive "I wanna..." is charge it or take out a loan and then "Surprise!" something happens that they can't work anymore or "Surprise!" you're 68 years old and a health issue or out of date skills forces retirement.

What did these people think was going to happen?

+1

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I recognize the area where the older couples house is located. It is an upscale, very expensive area (Orinda/Moraga). First, the property values there did not drop by 50%. It was much closer to 25% to 35%. Second, by the time this film was done, the property values were almost fully recovered. It gets a little hot in that area and people will run their a/c most of day during the summer. However, if you are trying to cut back, it's not too hot that you cannot find alternatives to a/c. They can probably lower their electric bill to around $100 to $150 per month if they so desired. And my biggest pet peeve, they should not be buying a $1M+ home with 25% or less down when they are 61 and 57 years old.

I broke down and entered some random email address to watch. Here is the house -

17 Benthill Ct, Lafayette, CA 94549 - Zillow

Two couples we know that ERed sold their paid off houses in the Bay Area and moved somewhere less expensive. These guys pretty much did it backwards - waited until thy were retirement age then took out a big mortgage to upsize (3300 sq feet) to an affluent suburb of one of the most expensive cities in the U.S.

This house even has a guest house. They could have moved to that and rented out the main house. Or rented out both the house and guest house and they could have rented a studio apartment out in Oakley. The whole story was a bit bizarre.

 

[Gumby]

It begs the question of why home economics was abolished from classes, rather than being extended to boys as well.

For at least a while at my old HS they relabeled Home Ec and called it Bachelor Survival. Good thing to do, don't know if they still offer it. I heard it was a very popular class.

Good idea. While I understand and agree with the point for home economics, as a young teenage boy I wouldn't have been caught dead in a class named that. I was probably the one making fun of any boy in such a class.

In 1976, when I moved to Missouri for my senior year of high school, they explained to me that I would have to take a shop class in order to graduate. Upon further discussion with the school, I learned that the requirement was not shop specifically, but shop or home ec/child care. I asked them why I couldn't take home ec with the girls, and they couldn't think of a good reason other than that had never been done before. So I happily spent one class period a day with all the girls in the home ec/child care class. My social life was greatly enhanced by the experience. I don't know why other boys were unable to figure out that if you want to meet girls, you need to go where they are. And, as for being mocked by the other lads, I was ready, willing and able to send them home to tell their parents that a guy in a frilly pink apron had just kicked their ass. (Back in the day, I lettered in 3 sports and could accomplish that feat. Now I'm just an old crème puff)

 

[marko]

And, as for being mocked by the other lads, I was ready, willing and able to send them home to tell their parents that a guy in a frilly pink apron had just kicked their ass.

Yeah, but nowadays, you'd be labeled a bully, expelled, perhaps arrested, and required to take sensitivity classes.

 

[MuirWannabe]

In 1976, when I moved to Missouri for my senior year of high school, they explained to me that I would have to take a shop class in order to graduate. Upon further discussion with the school, I learned that the requirement was not shop specifically, but shop or home ec/child care. I asked them why I couldn't take home ec with the girls, and they couldn't think of a good reason other than that had never been done before. So I happily spent one class period a day with all the girls in the home ec/child care class. My social life was greatly enhanced by the experience. I don't know why other boys were unable to figure out that if you want to meet girls, you need to go where they are. And, as for being mocked by the other lads, I was ready, willing and able to send them home to tell their parents that a guy in a frilly pink apron had just kicked their ass. (Back in the day, I lettered in 3 sports and could accomplish that feat. Now I'm just an old crème puff)

Yep, nobody would have accused me of being brilliant back in my HS days. You had a good idea there hanging where the chicks were. And you wouldn't have been the first one to whip me. I've had my ass kicked a few times almost always for good reason. That can serve as a good learning experience. But only later, never at the actual time it occurs.

Muir


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[Badger]

In 1976, when I moved to Missouri for my senior year of high school, they explained to me that I would have to take a shop class in order to graduate. Upon further discussion with the school, I learned that the requirement was not shop specifically, but shop or home ec/child care. I asked them why I couldn't take home ec with the girls, and they couldn't think of a good reason other than that had never been done before. So I happily spent one class period a day with all the girls in the home ec/child care class. My social life was greatly enhanced by the experience. I don't know why other boys were unable to figure out that if you want to meet girls, you need to go where they are. And, as for being mocked by the other lads, I was ready, willing and able to send them home to tell their parents that a guy in a frilly pink apron had just kicked their ass. (Back in the day, I lettered in 3 sports and could accomplish that feat. Now I'm just an old crème puff)

I had a similar plan in undergraduate school when I signed up for Human Anatomy/Physiology in an all women's college just a couple of miles from the men's college I was attending. Best semester ever. I did well enough that I started tutoring the girls in the next semester. After that I started signing up for the Psychology classes there.

Cheers!

 

[rodi]

In 1976, when I moved to Missouri for my senior year of high school, they explained to me that I would have to take a shop class in order to graduate. Upon further discussion with the school, I learned that the requirement was not shop specifically, but shop or home ec/child care. I asked them why I couldn't take home ec with the girls, and they couldn't think of a good reason other than that had never been done before. So I happily spent one class period a day with all the girls in the home ec/child care class. My social life was greatly enhanced by the experience. I don't know why other boys were unable to figure out that if you want to meet girls, you need to go where they are. And, as for being mocked by the other lads, I was ready, willing and able to send them home to tell their parents that a guy in a frilly pink apron had just kicked their ass. (Back in the day, I lettered in 3 sports and could accomplish that feat. Now I'm just an old crème puff)

A friend up the street was a total gear head from an early age - but also did gymnastics. He figured out if he switched his gymnastics skills to ballet - he'd get to hold and lift girls wearing nothing but a leotard as he lifted them. He had a *very* active social life with the dancers. He totally did it to meet and date the girls.

 

[RenoJay]

I just watched the whole thing. It featured some hard-on-their-luck families who'd had health issues, job losses, etc. (of course they all seemed financially illiterate and had enormous underwater homes.). The movie did a good job of conveying that entitlements are going bankrupt. It also did a good job of advocating for Millenials who are on the "get-screwed" tail of the looming social security crisis. Overall I think the film could do a nice job of getting people who never think about the future to start thinking about it. I like that it had a multigenerational aspect and not just a "save our seniors" vibe.


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[growing_older]

And, for that one SF area couple in their 60s, that's a lotta house (with a $600/month power bill!).

What do they do in the summer in SF to need that much power? Air condition to keep the place at 55 degrees? This number seems considerably off.

Many of these people are simply not saving or simply not thinking about anything that they need to do to provide for themselves in the future.

There are some demographic issues with SS, but the film makers have mixed a few legitimate issues with lots of spin, so half truths and political positions are treated as facts and the whole message comes off as disingenuous. Many of these people had some issues in their lives that made their finances somewhat more challenging. But most everyone has issues like divorce, layoffs, health issues, Real Estate or market fluctuation. Some of that cannot be controlled but how you respond to that can be. The film seems like an extended request for some kind of government safety net to double or triple SS payouts without requiring any contributions from irresponsible people.

I'm also confused by the helpless attitude of many of the people in the film. In tight times, I cut (big cut) expenses and lived just fine. If required I know I could downsize to inexpensive or even shared housing options that I could afford. Not wanting to do that is an important part of why I save. I have lived on a strict budget of a few dollars a day for food. It can be done, but again I want to provide for myself so I do not have to live like that in my old age. My grandparents spent many years in a hard scrabble lifestyle that seems hard to understand in modern plenty, but to me it's a real possibility that motivates me to never need to do that. Most of the people in the film do not seem to have any notion that without proving for themselves that might mean no one else will provide for them either.

 

[Walt34]

So I happily spent one class period a day with all the girls in the home ec/child care class.

That was one of the major reasons I took a typing class. I was one of two or three guys in the class. The other reason was that I knew they couldn't make me buy a typewriter and therefor there would be no homework for that class.

 

[purplesky]

I believe the movie had very little to do with how to save for retirement. It was about unexpected medical bills, divorce and possible disability, long term unemployment and the governments ineptitude with respect to Social Security.

All of these were potential retirement killers for decades upon decades. These are social and political issues that affect retirement, not retirement issues in and of itself.

Technology and globalization are probably contributing to retirement issues also.

So about a 3 decade window for those newer issues.

Divorce and medical costs are huge retirement killers.

 

[Birdie Num Nums]

... Here is the house -

17 Benthill Ct, Lafayette, CA 94549 - Zillow

Two couples we know that ERed sold their paid off houses in the Bay Area and moved somewhere less expensive. These guys pretty much did it backwards - waited until thy were retirement age then took out a big mortgage to upsize (3300 sq feet) to an affluent suburb of one of the most expensive cities in the U.S.

This house even has a guest house. They could have moved to that and rented out the main house. Or rented out both the house and guest house and they could have rented a studio apartment out in Oakley. The whole story was a bit bizarre.

Looks like they sold it a few months ago for ~$1.5m after paying what? $1.25m in June 2005? What's that $340k sale a month later? And ~$17k/year property taxes! Yowser!