60 Year Change in Personality?

[I was misinformed]

A study just published tries to assess the stability of personality traits from adolescence to old age. Specifically the investigators tracked down participants in a study of children born in Scotland in 1936. The students had their IQs tested in 1947 and then their teachers assessed their personality traits in 1950 (age 13-14). The investigators found 174 of these folks still alive and willing to participate in a follow up study in 2013 (now age 76-77). The participants were given a quiz to rate themselves on the same personality traits and they were asked to find someone they know to also provide a rating.

The headline result of the study is a remarkable lack of correlation in the personality traits in 1950 vs 2013. This seems to be getting some attention in the British media with stories you can easily google. A more nuanced discussion with some serous caveats is at

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/02/0...-between-measures-taken-at-age-14-and-age-77/

The full study is published in an open source journal and can be seen here

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5144810/#!po=39.5833

Particularly striking is Table 3 which shows no correlation at all between the 1950 and 2013 assessments.

These results seem counter-intuitive to me, but we have lots of members here at ER-org with full lifetimes of experience and I wonder what folks might think about this.

 

[ER Eddie]

A few comments off the top of my head:

1. The were only able to get about 10% of the original sample.

2. They measured 6 factors, all of which boiled down to a "dependability" (conscientiousness) factor. Personality research generally supports 5 overall factors (Big 5), of which conscientiousness is just 1. I only read the abstract, but it looks as if they are just examining a slice of personality, 1 of the 5 main factors, not the whole gamut.

3. It isn't too surprising to me that there is not much correlation in "dependability" (conscientiousness) between a 13 year old and a 77 year old. A lot of what happens between those years has to do with developing self-discipline, responsibility, conscience, etc. -- things that go in to make up "dependability."

4. There is a lot of research showing that personality traits are generally stable throughout adulthood. They're starting from age 13, though, at a time when personality is undergoing major changes.

 

[NW-Bound]

I do not remember how I was at age 13, and still have some years to go till 77. But as far as I can tell, I have always been introverted and of a gloomy nature.

 

[kcowan]

I was game for anything at 13. Now not so much. I have too much too lose, including freedom from pain. Since i have had so many life experiences, I don't need to repeat them unless they are pleasurable.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I have always been extroverted and very social so that is the same. When young I did not stand up for myself and that has changed a lot)

 

[imoldernu]

The articles, with their correlations and summaries were certainly over my head... that from psych major who specialized in this kind of statistical analysis.

In plain talk, from one who was also born in 1936, looking for personality changes (or persistent characteristics) is not meaningful for me. The one change for me (which classification wasn't at all clear in the articles), was that of IQ. Certainly a change for whatever reason. measured @ 141 to 145 back in the 1950's, revisiting the on-line test equivalent today shows an embarrassing decline in the abstract reasoning processes.

Overall, my empirical assessment of personality change from the 1950's to today came between 1952 and 1958, when wimpy me became more self confident, and outgoing, with the adulation that came from national success in sports.

Assessing the rest of the characteristics delineated in the articles would be an iffy proposition.

 

[harley]

I remember how I was at 13. Horny! There wasn't room for any other personality traits. Now, at 61, I can sometimes go for whole minutes at a time without thinking about sex. Of course there's no correlation between my personality then and now.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

I do not remember how I was at age 13, and still have some years to go till 77. But as far as I can tell, I have always been introverted and of a gloomy nature.

For some reason, this just makes me chuckle.

 

[ER Eddie]

I do not remember how I was at age 13, and still have some years to go till 77. But as far as I can tell, I have always been introverted and of a gloomy nature.

Unless I misunderstood, they didn't measure those two factors (Introvert/Extrovert and Neuroticism) nor the other two, Agreeableness and Openness to Experience.

At 13, I was pathologically shy and near-suicidally depressed. I've gotten better. Now I'm just melancholy and socially awkward, lol.

 

[GrayHare]

4. There is a lot of research showing that personality traits are generally stable throughout adulthood. They're starting from age 13, though, at a time when personality is undergoing major changes.

+1 Thirteen is too young. Maybe there would be some correlation at age 16, and more likely 18 or 21.

Recently I found a few letters I'd written to my parents when I was 18. I was surprised by how similar to now my thought processes and expressions of them were then.

 

[Amethyst]

I have some I wrote to my parents and SO, when out on my own for the first time in my early 20's (I lived at home while attending college).

My penmanship used to be beautiful. Now I can barely write "penmanship."

Also, it would seem a lot of things about the world and the people in it did not make sense to me. The phrases "This doesn't make any sense" and "I don't understand why anybody would do that" appear throughout. Nowadays, I know better than to look for sense.

Other than that, I sound just like me

+1 Thirteen is too young. Maybe there would be some correlation at age 16, and more likely 18 or 21.

Recently I found a few letters I'd written to my parents when I was 18. I was surprised by how similar to now my thought processes and expressions of them were then.

 

[misshathaway]

There is a series of documentaries called "7Up" that follows kids from I think the forties when they were 7, at 7 year intervals. The last one I saw was when they were 56.

I presume it was heavily edited. Some of the participants cited their portrayal as the reason they dropped out. But you could see many of the traits, good and bad, from age 7.

 

[ls99]

13 year olds have humongous advantages over adults. They are not hampered by reason.

Although there are many adults in the same boat.

 

[Lsbcal]

I'm unclear as to how this information could help me at 68. I tend to like the phrase "I like you just the way you are".

 

[CaptTom]

I'm unclear as to how this information could help me at 68. I tend to like the phrase "I like you just the way you are".

To me, it was helpful to hear of a similar study, which demonstrated that people generally acknowledge that they're very different than they were, but then assume they'll always be as they are now, into the future.

Knowing that your wants, needs and maybe even personality will change allows you to plan better.

One example is the way many of us spent our younger years accumulating "stuff," and when we reached a certain age, we started divesting ourselves of a lot of it.

Another is the assumption that you'll always need your current income, and housing arrangements. Personally, I suspect my world will shrink with age, as I am less able and willing to go as far afield. Likewise, at some point I'll lose interest in doing constant house maintenance, and much smaller arrangements will suffice.

 

[I was misinformed]

To me, it was helpful to hear of a similar study, which demonstrated that people generally acknowledge that they're very different than they were, but then assume they'll always be as they are now, into the future.

Knowing that your wants, needs and maybe even personality will change allows you to plan better.

One example is the way many of us spent our younger years accumulating "stuff," and when we reached a certain age, we started divesting ourselves of a lot of it.

Another is the assumption that you'll always need your current income, and housing arrangements. Personally, I suspect my world will shrink with age, as I am less able and willing to go as far afield. Likewise, at some point I'll lose interest in doing constant house maintenance, and much smaller arrangements will suffice.

Interesting. I think I may be a bit unusual in that I never had much attraction to owning stuff. Even at a young age any acquisition always seemed to be as much of a burden as a joy. If anything as I get older I am may be slightly more attached to my modest creature comforts.

Your larger point is no doubt correct - most folks have a hard time imagining that their personalities (or even just tastes) may change drastically over the long term. Presumably this explains some of the distressing tendency for young people to rush into irreversible (or nearly irreversible) decisions like getting extensive tattoos or getting married......

 

[CaptTom]

Presumably this explains some of the distressing tendency for young people to rush into irreversible (or nearly irreversible) decisions like getting extensive tattoos or getting married......

Right. A bad tattoo can be undone far more easily...

 

[Pellice]

For me, financial independence will make a big difference in my personality. I can see it happening already as I approach that goal. I am smiling more. I shrug off work anxieties much more easily. I care less and less and less about the opinions of others at work. I recently tried to get a Good Idea going at work. I met with no encouragement. I dropped the Good Idea. End of issue. That's the kind of thing I used to pursue.

A few years ago I wondered how FIRE would affect my anxiety-prone nature. Now I can answer that question: anxieties are going to play less and less a role in my personality. I can even stand back and observe it happening.

What WOULD happen, I wonder, if all people were financially independent?

 

[Nemo2]

What WOULD happen, I wonder, if all people were financially independent?

Prices would rise in order to maintain equilibrium, (of sorts).

 

[ER Eddie]

For me, financial independence will make a big difference in my personality. I can see it happening already as I approach that goal. I am smiling more. I shrug off work anxieties much more easily. I care less and less and less about the opinions of others at work. I recently tried to get a Good Idea going at work. I met with no encouragement. I dropped the Good Idea. End of issue. That's the kind of thing I used to pursue.

A few years ago I wondered how FIRE would affect my anxiety-prone nature. Now I can answer that question: anxieties are going to play less and less a role in my personality. I can even stand back and observe it happening.

Amen. I've noticed the same change. Prior to FI, I was much more concerned about what others at work (particularly my bosses) thought of me. After FI, I just don't care that much. It's a very noticeable change. It feels like I have a lot more freedom of movement. I can be myself in a way I couldn't before. I can take more risks (and so have more fun), without worrying about the consequences.

 

[GrayHare]

What WOULD happen, I wonder, if all people were financially independent?

Presumably no one would work very hard, including those in the food industry, starting with farmers. We'd all have to grow our own or go hungry. Hey, national obesity would be solved too!

 

[HFWR]

Presumably no one would work very hard, including those in the food industry, starting with farmers. We'd all have to grow our own or go hungry. Hey, national obesity would be solved too!

Where are those robots?

 

[sengsational]

I'm unclear as to how this information could help me at 68. I tend to like the phrase "I like you just the way you are".

The valuable take away for me, whenever these kinds of things come up is that it's a good reminder that I will not be the same person tomorrow that I am today. I think the tendency is to presume that you will be you, you going forward. I think it's healthier to realize that we change, and that the changes tend to be imperceptible. Then something bigger happens and we chide ourselves to the tune of "what was I thinking!"

Where are those robots?

Still hanging out with the flying cars.

 

[Lsbcal]

I guess my comment might be misleading. I'm always trying to make myself (and unfortunately some others) better. It's OK to strive for betterment. But that "I like you the way you are" means basically to me that "I'm OK, your OK".

Maybe I was off topic? Would not be the first time.

I am fine with change whether that be personality or anything else in the universe. I cannot think of anything in our physical universe that remains unchanged. Mountains erode, galaxies evolve, and yes even I morph.

 

[sengsational]

Here's a link to a personality change thread. The bottom line is that we all think our personality is done changing, but it's probably not.