Do your relatives and friends know you are FIRE'd?

[Amethyst]

Inspired by the forum (and the SYSE classes I was taking, which were bringing out my orderly side) I tracked our expenses carefully from 2009-2015. We made several changes in our spending habits due to the trends I could detect in expenses and spending.

In 2016, I fell off the wagon. There was simply too much going on - my circus had too many monkeys, who were behaving like anarchists off their meds. I was tired at the end of every day and had no energy left for filling in little spreadsheet cells. At some point, I realized I dreaded going back to that chore, so I didn't.

I still monitor our spending (check the credit card balances often, mostly to detect fraud) but I don't really track it any more. I can tell groceries cost more than they did the year before, but it doesn't change what we buy.

We never did either until finding this forum, when I tracked spending for a month with tightened purse strings just for grins. We had run calculators and knew what we had and what level of spending it would support (and early on DH said he refused to retire at that point to that low level of spending). Nest egg grew, a buyout offer came, and boom, FIRE happened. I keep close tabs on the nest egg and the bank accounts continue to grow, but we still don’t have a budget or an expense report. Not tracking one’s spending does not equal living above one’s means or spending every penny.

 

[aja8888]

I tracked spending with Quicken since the early life of the software package. Every cent, many categories, etc, etc. Hours spent doing this. One day about 10 years into it, I started looking back into the data and realized that lifestyle changes and other non-predictable issues had made the data useless or not meaningful. So tracking detailed spending ended.

I still periodically look at what is spent, and why, but as long as we are not throwing money down a rabbit hole, all is good.

 

[FUEGO]

A few months ago, I was traveling through Amsterdam on my way back to the US. All the passengers bound to the US were subjected to an interview before boarding their plane. I was asked what I did for a living. I replied that I was retired. It definitely raised the interviewer's eyebrow as I am only 43. He asked how I supported myself. I thought the question was impertinent, but the setting did not lend itself to a flippant answer.

Amsterdam takes their security questioning seriously. Even threw away my wife's 3 oz bottle of sunscreen! They grilled the guy behind me a ton (he was an attorney from the US but looked like he's a part time snowboarding instructor freshly returning from hitting up Amsterdam's finest coffee shops and ladeez of the night establishments).

I remember they asked me and DW a bunch of questions in AMS too. Can't recall what I said about employment but I usually say "consulting" in that kind of situation because I want to fly under the radar and it's not a complete lie. Retired at 37 is a bit weird and might get me pulled into the "more thorough exam area" where the security officers don the rubber gloves (witnessed that happening as I was being questioned).

 

[FUEGO]

We got similar questions coming back from Mexico a few days ago. They would ask pretty simple things (when did you get here?) and then shift it to something like (where did you go on your last vacation?). As I understand it, the line of questioning is designed to catch you off guard and give the interviewer visual cues as to your honesty or lack thereof...the Israeli model, I believe.

Mexico was a weird one. We entered. When asked by the immigration official how long we were staying in Mexico for vacation we said 7 weeks. "Okay! Bienvenidos and enjoy your stay!" Kind of disappointed he didn't ask any more questions but I guess we looked legit enough with our 3 young children in tow.

 

[iloveyoga]

Same here. I have a pretty good idea of what I spend monthly nowadays because as soon as my monthly income comes in I immediately set aside about 30% in my money market accounts . But have I ever really tracked my spending? No, I haven't. I should have, I just never did.

At this point it doesn't look like I ever will track my spending. Also, I have never kept a checking account ledger either, but I know how much I have in it. There's something called online banking and keeping track mentally the amount you have. I guess it would drive some people nuts to operate like this, but it's so easy for me and it works well for me, so I will stick with it.

+1

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Mexico was a weird one. We entered. When asked by the immigration official how long we were staying in Mexico for vacation we said 7 weeks. "Okay! Bienvenidos and enjoy your stay!" Kind of disappointed he didn't ask any more questions but I guess we looked legit enough with our 3 young children in tow.

I think the questions we got when we left were part of the new US questioning requirements of those traveling TO the states. They also placed a decal w/ a signature on the back of the passport that was looked at by security at the boarding gate. When entering Mexico, they asked us a couple of the questions that were already the "declaration page" that we gave them before pushing the "red light/green light" button for the random searches. I have never got the "red light" in over 20 trips to Mexico in the last 10 years or so.

 

[Shanky]

I much prefer folks think I am unemployed and cannot find suitable work. No one asks for $$$ or says I am too young to retire. My wife does know, but she “retired” when we had our second child 28 years ago.

 

[DawgMan]

Fascinating discussion. I would think friends/family/acquaintances mainly would fall into two categories...

1) Those who understand how FIRE works
2) Those who do not

Group #1 would benefit from discussions about the topic. They'd be able to grasp and appreciate the planning and execution of it. This is a good group to talk to about your situation

Group #2 would be the majority of people, who are quite the opposite. They wouldn't appreciate and understand how a large sum of money can turn into freedom. Mainly due to a life of different kind of brain wiring, their life long interaction with money. People who don't plan ahead, or think like we do on this forum. To them... $1,000,000 is freedom, but their definition of freedom is not for the rest of their lives... it's focused on now. They compare their money to others based on what they have... which is why they are very confused about how you aren't working when you're seemingly living similar to them (off of a similar income range). We see $1M as $35,000-40,000 a year... they see it as getting that car, house, etc... These people might even think "hey, if you gave me half of that... we'd both be rich!" when really that's not true. Envy grows.... through lack of understanding. They simply wouldn't have the same plan you do with that kind of a sum of money.

Group #2 is best to avoid any discussion about FIRE... not necessarily hide from them but realize they will envy your situation rather than appreciate it.... when you don't want to loan them money, or give them gifts. Because in their "strategy" life is about spending what you have. It's gotten them to this point... so far.

Apples vs. Oranges.

Both groups contain plenty of awesome people, as well as rotten people. It's not necessarily a good thing to block #2 people from your life... but might me smart to obfuscate your methods for managing a situation where you don't work... so as to avoid the messy situation of shining a light onto the apples and oranges

This caught my attention. Part of the reason I like this site is it generally feels like a safe and somewhat anonymous way for like minds to share ideas with limited judgement and typically support. Whether you are looking for a RE income of $30K or $300K it feels like there are many shared and similar principles being applied, regardless of whether you are working with $1M or $10M.

Like many, I shy away from discussions regarding RE, net worth, income with most people unless I vet them out as “safe”. Like most on this site, I live significantly below my means and while certain vices may be a somewhat of a “tell” to certain friends, I avoid any grandstanding. My bet is the 80/20 rule is in effect for most of us in that 80% of our neighbors/friends are living over their head to keep up. I have seen friends of mine who like to talk about their “wealth” or lack there of continue to make what I would call stupid repetive mistakes over and over just to keep up appearances... as I am assuming most of you have. I find human nature regarding all of this interesting. I think your real friends will congratulate your success and your pretend friends will show their real colors if your real financial picture is exposed. That being said, people’s perception of your wealth, how you spend it and how they THINK you should spend it can have a funny affect on relationships.

 

[marko]

We see $1M as $35,000-40,000 a year... they see it as getting that car, house, etc...

This HAS to be the quote of the year! Bravo.

 

[Winemaker]

A couple of observations here.

I think a lot of people resent someone in their neighborhood has who has FIRED or won a lot of money IF THEY KNOW ABOUT IT. Like a lot of groups who make up society today, I don't wear my identity group on my sleeve and wave it under everybody's nose. So I fly under the radar, and people thought we were living paycheck to paycheck just like they are.


Powerball Jackpot: Why Lottery Winner Neighbors Go Bankrupt | Money


Some of my older-than-me "knowing" neighbors go out to dinner every night in their brand new cars, run around like Banshees cutting their grass on Thursdays so they can take their weekend trips to wherever. DW and I saved over 25% of our incomes over our working years because we expected everyone to screw us. So far, both employer's dropped health care coverage for retirees, just before we retired. I expect our pensions and SS will let us down as well.

 

[2017ish]

We haven't hid it at all and haven't experienced any issues. All of our close relatives and our admittedly narrow group of friends knew for a long time that we were intending to retire relatively young to make up for the time demands we gladly put up with in our jobs. They also saw the way we [didn't] spend money in our working lives--and could guess that we made healthy incomes given the type of jobs we had. (FWIW, all of my relatives are in blue collar fields and work hard; yet, I've never felt any undue envy.)

Then again, we retired not-that-young at 57/56. Maybe different experience if we hadn't had me stay home with the kids for so long and gotten out earlier....

 

[brett]

People have very vivid imaginations.

When we retired, downsized/sold our house, traveled and then came back and rented some people actually thought that we had spent our home equity. In eight months?

After moving to a rental condo close to downtown that had access to good public transportation we got rid of one of our vehicles. Some people that that we were on a tight budget and could no longer afford two vehicles.

After four plus years of renting we decided to buy. Some people thought that we must have won the lottery or rec'd a windfall inheritance.

The thing is you cannot control other people's thoughts and imaginations because it is often based on their own experiences/beliefs. So we just go on doing what we want to do. We don't mask it in any way because the bottom line is that our friends, relatives, etc. will think what they are going to think. We can't change that.

 

[Scuba]

People have very vivid imaginations.

When we retired, downsized/sold our house, traveled and then came back and rented some people actually thought that we had spent our home equity. In eight months?

After moving to a rental condo close to downtown that had access to good public transportation we got rid of one of our vehicles. Some people that that we were on a tight budget and could no longer afford two vehicles.

After four plus years of renting we decided to buy. Some people thought that we must have won the lottery or rec'd a windfall inheritance.

The thing is you cannot control other people's thoughts and imaginations because it is often based on their own experiences/beliefs. So we just go on doing what we want to do. We don't mask it in any way because the bottom line is that our friends, relatives, etc. will think what they are going to think. We can't change that.

Agreed. One of our friends told us that a mutual acquaintance remarked that we were lucky to have inherited a lot of money. In fact, we've inherited very little, maybe 4% of our total portfolio and certainly not enough to be a game changer. Whatever they want to think is fine with us.

 

[marko]

People have very vivid imaginations.

When we retired, downsized/sold our house, traveled and then came back and rented some people actually thought that we had spent our home equity. In eight months?

After moving to a rental condo close to downtown that had access to good public transportation we got rid of one of our vehicles. Some people that that we were on a tight budget and could no longer afford two vehicles.
.

Same thing happened to my uncle. He had always driven big, 'long hooded' luxury cars. He decided to go to a Mercedes two seater. (~$100K in today's money).

Some acquaintances stopped him: "Oh, we never thought we'd see you downsize to some tiny little car...but at some point we all have to economize, right?"

 

[LastOfTheBoomers]

When you sell a car and only have one car people think you are half way to the poor house!

 

[Amethyst]

Or they say they would get divorced, if they had to share a car. I think some people must be perpetually on the verge of divorce.

When you sell a car and only have one car people think you are half way to the poor house!

 

[Winemaker]

People have very vivid imaginations.

When we retired, downsized/sold our house, traveled and then came back and rented some people actually thought that we had spent our home equity. In eight months?

After moving to a rental condo close to downtown that had access to good public transportation we got rid of one of our vehicles. Some people that that we were on a tight budget and could no longer afford two vehicles.

After four plus years of renting we decided to buy. Some people thought that we must have won the lottery or rec'd a windfall inheritance.

The thing is you cannot control other people's thoughts and imaginations because it is often based on their own experiences/beliefs. So we just go on doing what we want to do. We don't mask it in any way because the bottom line is that our friends, relatives, etc. will think what they are going to think. We can't change that.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and it's usually the darker side.

During the Great Recession, DW and I decided to build a detached garage and had to have a public hearing about a variance on boundary setbacks. There was a public notice posted on the front lawn for 60 days prior to the hearing. More than two nefarious residents in our neighborhood chided us about our "foreclosure" and asked if we considered a short sale.

 

[CoolRich59]

The thing is you cannot control other people's thoughts and imaginations because it is often based on their own experiences/beliefs. So we just go on doing what we want to do. We don't mask it in any way because the bottom line is that our friends, relatives, etc. will think what they are going to think. We can't change that.

Great point of view. If I recall, the term for this is 'projection'. People generally process things according to their beliefs and experiences.

For too many folks, the only reason they'd downsize their home, or move from a fancy new car to a practical used car, would be they'd suffered some kind of financial setback. They can't fathom any other reason - like wanting to reduce expenses and save more $$ for retirement.

 

[Souschef]

When you sell a car and only have one car people think you are half way to the poor house!

We had just the opposite.
DW's 20 year old Cadillac died, and our grandson needed a car. I gave him my 2003 Hyundai.
A week later we have a new Mazda CX-5 and Hyundai that are both paid for. I can imagine what our neighbors were saying.
As Rhett Butler said,...........

 

[Amethyst]

"Certainly not. Have you considered brushing up on your reading skills?"

During the Great Recession, DW and I decided to build a detached garage and had to have a public hearing about a variance on boundary setbacks. There was a public notice posted on the front lawn for 60 days prior to the hearing. More than two nefarious residents in our neighborhood chided us about our "foreclosure" and asked if we considered a short sale.

 

[Major Tom]

I'm afraid I haven't been following this thread closely, so apologies if my comments are not tracking the general direction of conversation and seem disjointed. It's just that two points in EvrClrx311's post stood out and called me by my name. (PS - I had the pleasure of meeting Art Alexakis once, if your username means what I think it does. No 311 stories though.)

I would think friends/family/acquaintances mainly would fall into two categories...

1) Those who understand how FIRE works
2) Those who do not

Yep, and that difference is far greater than the differences between us all in this forum. In some cases, we may not have other things in common, but we all "get" how FIRE works. That's why I, although living on a lower income than many on this board - and vastly less than a few, still feel quite a lot in common with my fellow forum members. We all "get" the basic principles of FIRE.

We see $1M as $35,000-40,000 a year... they see it as getting that car, house, etc...

Bingo - and that's why there are very, very few in my real life to whom I would ever mention my NW. My protestations of, "But you don't get it. My actual income is less than yours" wouldn't be viewed kindly. They'd just think of that big pot of money and feel envious. Quite honestly, I can't blame them. Even though I'm living on just $18K/yr in a high COL area (a sum which represents 2% of my portfolio), I cannot deny the fact that there is a big difference between my situation and that of someone who has little or no savings and lives paycheck to paycheck from an $18K/yr job.

Actually, I see $1M as more like $25,000 - $30,000 a year, but that's the subject of another longwinded thread

 

[gayl]

Some of my friends know I'm FIREd, kids know, other relatives think I'm freelancing. Frowned upon in my extended family

Also somewhat HCOL area (Diablo Valley thru a tunnel from SF East Bay) but with a pension & COLA

 

[Amethyst]

My first cash-paid car was the second car I ever owned. I was 28. I seriously doubt anyone suspected I had no car payment. As I recall, the dealership tried hard to interest me in leasing, and when I said I wanted to pay up front, they insisted on a cashier's check. I knew I'd get the same treatment anywhere else (being a single woman, in a cultural backwater, in the 1980's) so I went along with it.

We had just the opposite.
DW's 20 year old Cadillac died, and our grandson needed a car. I gave him my 2003 Hyundai.
A week later we have a new Mazda CX-5 and Hyundai that are both paid for. I can imagine what our neighbors were saying.
As Rhett Butler said,...........

 

[HGTVfan]

When I retired at 55, most people knew I had saved and had the money to retire. But I also did not want some people of modest means like our company receptionist (a wonderful woman), my hairdresser, a hard-working but poorly educated cousin and a few others to know that I would not have to work again. For them, I thought it would be bragging.

I was lucky to be in a profession, journalism, where I could say I was freelancing. Did I freelance? No, but they didn’t know that.

I’m now 63 and it is a non-issue because most of those people think that I retired and took SS at 62. (Really I’m waiting for 70.) So OP I totally understand your question.

 

[marko]

The thing is you cannot control other people's thoughts and imaginations because it is often based on their own experiences/beliefs.

We were out to dinner with some neighbors. A well-known local contractor walked in and I said to DW "Oh crap...Johnnie just walked in"

Our neighbor said: "Oh, do you owe him money?" (pretty insulting IMO)

We said: "No. He's been stalking DW...not good" That ended the conversation.