Retire in your 30s and Get Subsidized Healthcare? I don't get it.

[flintnational]

Note, the following is a lot of opinion. (Okay all opinion )

I don't think ACA subsidies are the real issue. The total cost of health care is the issue. If we can come up with a way to control costs, other issues become more manageable. Cost is the problem businesses face with employee coverage and the problem the government faces with the ACA, Medicaid and Medicare. Many believe none of these delivery systems are sustainable as currently designed.

While it may sound cold (not intended) I think we will need to determine how we will ration care. IMO, we cannot continue to provide unlimited Cadillac care to everyone. We simply cannot afford this noble but costly standard.

The market can allocate care through pricing or the government can do it through price controls and direct rationing. Or the two can be combined for a hybrid system.

I would support a basic robust program (but not unlimited) for everyone. The poor would receive public assistance. The basic plan would be offered by employers, the market and by the government (Medicare and Medicaid). Top hat plans would be sold in the market for those wanting (and able to pay) for unlimited or expanded coverage.

Just my two cents on the broader topic of our unsustainable health care costs.

 

[jimbee]

or perhaps your employer is paying part of the Cobra and the OP is paying 100% of cost...

Yes, the employer could be subsidizing part of the cost. That wasn't clear in the quoted post.

 

[Huston55]

Note, the following is a lot of opinion. (Okay all opinion )

I don't think ACA subsidies are the real issue. The total cost of health care is the issue. If we can come up with a way to control costs, other issues become more manageable. Cost is the problem businesses face with employee coverage and the problem the government faces with the ACA, Medicaid and Medicare. Many believe none of these delivery systems are sustainable as currently designed.

+1

Cost is the issue. Here’s a informative & entertaining clip about it.

 

[flintnational]

+1

Cost is the issue. Here’s a informative & entertaining clip about it.

Thanks. Good video. The presenter is very entertaining!

 

[pb4uski]

Not available where they live .

[-]Huh? I thought that offering catastrophic coverage to people under 30 was required by ACA.... I've read a lot on catastrophic coverage because that is what we have even though we are over 30 and I have never seen any qualification along the lines of "if offered by your state" or anything like that.[/-]

ETA: Strike that. I found this webpage and only 47 states are listed if I counted right... learn something new every day.

https://www.healthcare.gov/catastrophic-plan-information/

 

[ivinsfan]

Most retired Americans are being paid SS. they paid into it when they were working, and as retirees, they get their money paid back to them.

All workers who have SS policies pay into SS regardless of being 'low' income or not.

Right and when you "retire" you don't pay any more FICA...which exactly what I said....retired people pay the same taxes as everyone except for FICA...and they are not getting there money payed "back" to them I'd wager no one gets back the exact amount they payed in..

 

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

Yeah, I have a hard time believing that one too. I think hospitals are required to provide emergency care, but not beyond that, as far as I've ever heard.

To qualify for some parts of their subsidies, these hospitals are all 501[c]3 non-profit charities. And there is some requirement that they can not turn away patients for non-payment.

 

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

Right and when you "retire" you don't pay any more FICA...which exactly what I said....retired people pay the same taxes as everyone except for FICA...and they are not getting there money payed "back" to them I'd wager no one gets back the exact amount they payed in..

How much of your SS funds will get paid back to you, is an on-going topic on many forums.

How long do you plan to live?

 

[scrabbler1]

To qualify for some parts of their subsidies, these hospitals are all 501[c]3 non-profit charities. And there is some requirement that they can not turn away patients for non-payment.

Are you thinking of the 1986 EMTALA law?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

 

[Alan]

How much of your SS funds will get paid back to you, is an on-going topic on many forums.

How long do you plan to live?

If I don’t get back what I paid in I plan to come back and haunt SS offices across the country.

 

[MichaelB]

To qualify for some parts of their subsidies, these hospitals are all 501[c]3 non-profit charities. And there is some requirement that they can not turn away patients for non-payment.

The only must-care requirements on hospitals is emergency care. When patients are eligible for some type of public assistance, hospitals charges are also regulated. There is no requirement on hospitals to provide non-emergency care for anyone that cannot pay, NFP status notwithstanding, nor is there any obligation to care for "medical tourists" as indicated in your earlier post.

 

[Huston55]

There are always generational ‘inequalities.’ You described one of those inequalities occurring today, and millennials are taking the hit. Several decades ago, in the early days of SS, a different generation was taking the hit. I don’t think such inequalities are always avoidable, and I’m not sure “unfairness” is the term I’d use to describe them.

I remembered some charts illustrating this but, it took me a while to find them. This illustrates the point I was trying to make. I think this is a pretty informative article. (Side note: I’ve used this information several times during “discussions” with my Dad about inter-generational fiscal responsibility. )

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...re-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/

 

[ivinsfan]

How much of your SS funds will get paid back to you, is an on-going topic on many forums.

How long do you plan to live?

My comment was very few people if any get back the exact amount they paid in therefore it's not really a return of your own money....I don't get the direction you want to take this. My comment that retired people do not pay anymore money into FICA was pretty self-explanatory.

 

[Hermit]

Many corporations pay zero taxes, ...

Broad statement. Any facts to back it up?

Back to the subject at hand: There are several people in my local area up here in the mountain back country who have managed to purchase a bare chunk of property and live quite nicely on government handouts and anyone else they can talk out of a few bucks. One is an alcoholic who works sporadically, a couple are on disability, one is a bit slow mentally, but mainly just does not like working (he mooches off his parents and gets a small government check). Another used to work pretty hard while staying unemployed. I think they all are on Medicaid. Most of them are pretty nice people. I like to think of this trend as the economy getting to the point where work is optional. I think it will get there some day.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Broad statement. Any facts to back it up?

Yes, all the links to articles I posted previously in this thread. But here is one more for good measure:

1 in 5 big U.S. Companies Pay No Federal Income Tax
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/20-percent-of-profitable-u-s-companies-pay-no-federal-income-tax/

 

[Smitty700]

or perhaps your employer is paying part of the Cobra and the OP is paying 100% of cost...

Nope, I'm paying 102% of the cost (the normal 100% of the cost plus 2% admin fee).

 

[Hermit]

Yes, all the links to articles I posted previously in this thread. But here is one more for good measure:

1 in 5 big U.S. Companies Pay No Federal Income Tax
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/20-percent-of-profitable-u-s-companies-pay-no-federal-income-tax/

According to that article you would have to add "in any one year" to your statement.

 

[pb4uski]

Right and when you "retire" you don't pay any more FICA...which exactly what I said....retired people pay the same taxes as everyone except for FICA...and they are not getting there money payed "back" to them I'd wager no one gets back the exact amount they payed in..

How much of your SS funds will get paid back to you, is an on-going topic on many forums.

How long do you plan to live?

If I don’t get back what I paid in I plan to come back and haunt SS offices across the country.

Here is an interesting exercise.

A. Go to opensocialsecurity.com and plug in your information as if you were a single and using the advanced options checkbox, set the discount rate to zero. Then at the bottom, set the month/year for an alternative claiming strategy to your FRA and click on submit. The result is the undiscounted expected value of your retirement benefits if you claim at your FRA (the sumproduct for each year of your scheduled benefits times the probability that you will be alive to collect them using the selected mortality table).

B. Now go to your SSA statement and take the sum of the amounts that you and your employer paid into SS in the middle of page 3 and multiply that result by 85% (the 15% difference assumes that 15% paid relates to survivor and DI coverage).

C. Divide A by B. What do you get? I get 2.32 meaning that on an expected value basis that I am getting 2.32 times what both my employer and I paid in.... if I do the same calculation for just what I paid in I get 5.59 times.

FWIW, a couple years ago I did a year by year calculation to solve for the accretion rate where my and my employer contributions grew sufficient to buy a COLAed life annuity commensurate with my SS retirement benefit at my FRA (but using 80% rather than 85%) and the "rate of return" was about 6.5%.

 

[NW-Bound]

I read a blog by a Canadian who got seriously sick while in the US, and required urgent care.

After getting stabilized, he contacted his provincial government, and they decided to fly him back on a chartered plane with an accompanying medic, compared to letting him getting treated by the US hospital where he was admitted. The reason: it cost less to fly him back for treatment, as they would have to reimburse the US hospital for the cost.

PS: It's not that I am fond of the Canadian system, but since when did Canadians get free treatments in the US?

There are always generational ‘inequalities.’ You described one of those inequalities occurring today, and millennials are taking the hit. Several decades ago, in the early days of SS, a different generation was taking the hit. I don’t think such inequalities are always avoidable, and I’m not sure “unfairness” is the term I’d use to describe them.

As George Orwell explained in his "Animal Farm" story, all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

But seriously...

My comment was very few people if any get back the exact amount they paid in therefore it's not really a return of your own money...

SS is a tax. It's not like your 401k and IRA. If you die before 62, you get nothing. If you live long, you make out well.

Rightly or wrongly, that's the way it is. US Supreme Court back in 1960 in the case of Flemming v. Nestor already said that Congress could change the benefit however it wanted. If they said "tough luck you got nothing" like they did with Nestor, then you had absolutely no recourse.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

According to that article you would have to add "in any one year" to your statement.

Meet the 18 profitable companies that paid no taxes over 8 years:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-18-companies-that-paid-no-taxes-over-8-years/
"These companies have a lot of tax avoidance strategies at their disposal.”

I share Fuego's sentiments about using all the tax avoidance strategies I legally qualify for with no qualms.

 

[RunningBum]

Meet the 18 profitable companies that paid no taxes over 8 years:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-18-companies-that-paid-no-taxes-over-8-years/
"These companies have a lot of tax avoidance strategies at their disposal.”

I share Fuego's sentiments about using all the tax avoidance strategies I legally qualify for with no qualms.

Different media sources that report the same ITEP study is not the same as reporting multiple sources.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Different media sources that report the same ITEP study is not the same as reporting multiple sources.

If you are truly interested, I believe this Google search would exclude the ITEP mentioned articles:

big corporations paid no income tax -itep -"institute on taxation and economic policies"

 

[Smitty700]

My opinion is that the corporate tax rate should be zero. In spite of what many think, corporations are people. When those people (owners) get the capital gains or income from the corporation, tax that as heavily as desired. In the meantime, our corporations would be the most competitive in the world, and the world would want to invest here.

 

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

Here is an interesting exercise.

A. Go to opensocialsecurity.com and plug in your information as if you were a single and using the advanced options checkbox, set the discount rate to zero. Then at the bottom, set the month/year for an alternative claiming strategy to your FRA and click on submit. The result is the undiscounted expected value of your retirement benefits if you claim at your FRA (the sumproduct for each year of your scheduled benefits times the probability that you will be alive to collect them using the selected mortality table).

B. Now go to your SSA statement and take the sum of the amounts that you and your employer paid into SS in the middle of page 3 and multiply that result by 85% (the 15% difference assumes that 15% paid relates to survivor and DI coverage).

C. Divide A by B. What do you get? I get 2.32 meaning that on an expected value basis that I am getting 2.32 times what both my employer and I paid in.... if I do the same calculation for just what I paid in I get 5.59 times.

FWIW, a couple years ago I did a year by year calculation to solve for the accretion rate where my and my employer contributions grew sufficient to buy a COLAed life annuity commensurate with my SS retirement benefit at my FRA (but using 80% rather than 85%) and the "rate of return" was about 6.5%.

I thought it all depends on your life expectancy.

 

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

...
SS is a tax. It's not like your 401k and IRA. If you die before 62, you get nothing. If you live long, you make out well.

No, it is a plan. That maybe you signed up for, or maybe you did not sign up for.

If you have an SS policy then either you or your parents signed you up for a policy.