Thoughts on TESLA

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I’ve avoided buying the Model S because I just don’t need such a big car. I always had big cars while working so that I could take clients out to meals, but now that I’m retired I’d much rather have a smaller car that fits into tight parking spaces better.

Tesla is going to be upgrading the computer chips at some point, likely this year, with V3 autopilot hardware. It’s said to be an order of magnitude more powerful than the current hardware, which should make full self driving more realistic (at least from a technology standpoint). Regulatory approval is another issue.

Regarding ERD50s comments, it sounds like now is not the time for you to buy a Tesla, or any EV. If the technology in the car doesn’t impress you there’s no reason to spend the money.

I do believe that the core group of Tesla loyalists tend to be technology enthusiasts. They are the people that upgrade their phones every year, and buy the latest technology shortly after it comes out. If you are happy with your four year old smart phone, you probably could care less about what Tesla is doing right now.
 
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Regarding ERD50s comments, it sounds like now is not the time for you to buy a Tesla, or any EV. If the technology in the car doesn’t impress you there’s no reason to spend the money.

I do believe that the core group of Tesla loyalists tend to be technology enthusiasts. They are the people that upgrade their phones every year, and buy the latest technology shortly after it comes out. If you are happy with your four year old smart phone, you probably could care less about what Tesla is doing right now.
I don't follow your thinking regarding technology and my decision to buy or not buy an EV. It is probably misplaced.

I am interested in tech, I do all sorts of techy things. But I don't care about "Autopilot", because I personally don't like the idea of a 'sort-of' SDC. As I've mentioned on that thread, if I can't 100% trust it, it would make me more nervous, I'd rather just take control all the time.

That said, I do like the 'assistance' features, like the blind spot detection, collision warnings, lane departure warnings, etc. that I have in my 2017 ICE. To me, that's just another set of eyes, in case you miss something while you are trying to be 100% the driver. And while those have triggered while I drive, they have never triggered on a situation that I wasn't already aware of and prepared for (disregarding a few false alarms like a lane departure while I intentionally and safely move over to avoid some junk on the side of the road, or a pedestrian). But just one warning in a lifetime that might avoid an accident could make them worthwhile.

So if/when I consider an EV to replace DW's car in few years, I'll be looking for that equivalent tech in an EV or ICE or hybrid. To me its a wash between them, I don't see any of that tech as being dependent on the power source.

From a drive-train standpoint, the tech I'm actually the most interested in is hybrid tech. I find it interesting how the ICE and battery/motor can be combined to use the strengths of each. That's an interesting engineering challenge with lots of options for optimization. But I'd be unlikely to to use that as a go-no-go buying decision, just curiosity.

-ERD50
 
I do believe that the core group of Tesla loyalists tend to be technology enthusiasts. They are the people that upgrade their phones every year, and buy the latest technology shortly after it comes out. If you are happy with your four year old smart phone, you probably could care less about what Tesla is doing right now.
Sort of lines up with what Roger Penske thinks of EV’s in the near term. He thinks they’ll won’t be a factor in mainstream cars anytime soon, but they may become a big factor on higher end marques like Cadillac, MB, Audi, BMW and of course Tesla along with Jaguar, Volvo, etc. Historically most auto tech has trickled down from premium marques so it would make sense. He’s a smart guy and a big auto dealer, so he should have a good read...

He also kinda dismissed autonomous as much further away.

https://youtu.be/iddGH1W8AMo

It will be interesting to see how EVs impact the used car market as more and more hit the market.
 
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A while back, I mentioned that a friend of mine bought a Tesla Model S, and I said I'd update the thread when I got a chance to get a ride and get some info from him.

So they picked us up this w/e and we went out to dinner. So only about a 10 minute ride each way, so this is really a mini-mini impression/review. And keep in mind, even though I'm interested in technology, and know a fair amount about cars, I just never got the bug to own a performance car. To me, a car is something to spend the least amount of money on to get me reliably from A to B in reasonable comfort and safety. I don't think of cars as status symbols, I just don't care about that.

He mentioned that he got the S because he didn't like the Model 3, he said the interior looked like something out of a Dodge Neon (his words, not mine). As we got in the car, his wife warned us that she had got her hand caught in the door handle a couple times, be careful. I didn't really know what that was about, but thought it was kinda weird.

He showed off some of the novelty gimmicks, which I thought were pretty cheesy (fart sounds for turn signal, 'Santa' mode' with sleigh bells for turn signals - oh well, whatever floats your boat). He was consuming ~ 425 wh/mile on our little trip.

He said the regen braking had only 2 settings (3 with 'off'?) and he really wanted something in the middle. Maybe a future SW upgrade? He talked about how you end up doing 'one pedal' driving, as you feather the accel pedal to control braking, and only apply brakes near the end of a stop. We discussed whether this might create a problem in an emergency - if you are thinking about using your right foot as active braking on the accel pedal, in an emergency, might you just stomp on the accel instead of moving to the brake pedal? After all, your brain is already thinking "I'm braking". He thought it might be a problem. And considering you'd be at 60 mph in a few seconds, that could be a big problem very fast! (if it were to happen).

As far as the quietness of an EV, there were only two times I noticed it. Not at road speeds, I expect a $70,000+ car to be pretty quiet, and we heard road and wind noise. I can't say it was noticeable quieter than any decently quiet car with an ICE. Even my lower end car does not produce much engine noise while cruising.

So of course, we had to experience the accel. This surprised me - he hit it, and my reaction was, literally - "is that all there is"? Yes, I was pushed back in my seat, and I know it accel faster than any car I'd ever been in, but w/o engine noise, it just did not seem exciting. A personal thing I guess, some will miss it, others will think it's cool to accel w/o the "rrrrrooooaarrrrr". But again, I don't understand why anyone wants sub 4 second 0-60 times in a street vehicle anyhow, I'm just not the target audience for that.

The only other time I was aware of 'quiet' was when they dropped us off, and there was no idling engine sound. Again, to me, kind of a pro/con thing, it makes a bystander sort of unaware that there is an active car nearby. I recall discussions about having EVs make some artificial noise to keep pedestrians aware of their presence, have not heard about that lately.

He did a short example of Auto-pilot. He and his wife (it is actually her car) were sort of not thrilled with it. They said it keeps you right in the middle of the lane and that felt awkward to them, I guess with no oncoming traffic, we tend to move a bit to the middle to avoid stuff on the side of the road? Not quite sure about their issue with that, but they seemed to not want to trust it much. Maybe they need more time with it.

His wife actually prefers her GMC truck. That's not a knock against a Model S, they are just different vehicles, and she likes sitting up high. But maybe it's telling that the Tesla didn't impress her so much that she fell in love with it?

My wife also likes higher vehicles, we both thought it was a little hard to get in/out of the S. But that's compared to our crossover style cars.

He has had it glitch out on him about 3x a week, radio stuck, heat full on, indicates it is in Park but it is in Reverse, lots of odd things that required the extended "Control-Alt-Delete" procedure to clear up. The latest when he was backing into the garage. He almost hit the wall before he realized the sensors had glitched out, and were not giving him the warning that he was near the back wall. He seems to think this will 'clear up', as he heard that was the case with someone else he knows with a Tesla, but I told him he's got the SW updates that they probably got at the time, so there is something wrong.

His wife mentioned that her boss also has a Tesla, and he had to unexpectedly leave it parked in the lot at work for a few days in the cold. Battery was so low, he needed some sort of service to come and get it going for him before he could get it to a charger.

He will be taking it on a longer trip soon, where he needs to rely on a Supercharger. We'll see how that goes.

He didn't seem to think there any fit-finish issues like we've heard about with recent Model 3s. And he seems to like it, said if he gets another it will have Ludicrous mode. So he's really into the performance end of it, not sure anything else really matters much to him. He has another Cobra kit car, no heater, no radio, etc - just an engine, shell, seats and wheels. Different strokes, and all.

When we got out of the restaurant, I asked him to 'summon' the car. He said he didn't think it would work more than ~ 50 feet away? Or maybe he just didn't trust it? I kidded him that I can 'summon' my car too, as long as I can walk up to it. :LOL:

I'll be curious what he thinks after he has more time with it. Like I said, I'm just not interested in spending that much for a car, so it doesn't mean much to me.

But I will still be watching future EV developments. I know some here think I'm anti-EV, but I'm not. I just don't like to let questionable information/claims go unchallenged, regardless the subject. We will probably replace DWs car in a few years - maybe a lower priced EV on the market by then would fit our needs? I've always felt that there are many things that are attractive about EVs, and when the cost comes down to our range, they will be in consideration. But I still hesitate over things like depreciation (if newer models come down in price as much as the fans expect), and battery life on lower cost models (I know Telsa batteries have held up well). And even though we don't drive much, and rarely take longer trips, the whole range thing still bugs me. Maybe I'm being pig-headed about that, but apples-to-apples with an ICE/hybrid, I just hate having this limitation, because you just never know when you might need it, and may not have the time to plan for it. It has happened to me before, just gas up and go.

So there you go, FWIW.

-ERD50

You can listen to the fellow who pretty much daily badmouths EV's, and insults those that think differently than him.

Or you can believe the actual Tesla owners: Christine, Ready, Euroscott, ClifP, and myself. Who actually know what we are talking about. Who all say how amazing their Tesla's are.

The above review reads like an amazon review, where its clear they want everyone not to purchase the product (because they are a competitor).
 
You can listen to the fellow who pretty much daily badmouths EV's, and insults those that think differently than him.

Or you can believe the actual Tesla owners: Christine, Ready, Euroscott, ClifP, and myself. Who actually know what we are talking about. Who all say how amazing their Tesla's are.

The above review reads like an amazon review, where its clear they want everyone not to purchase the product (because they are a competitor).

You are simply wrong. I don't care if anyone buys or doesn't buy a Tesla. I did not try to talk my friend out of it. Show me a post where I "badmouth" EVs. I do talk about the facts and figures about them, I don't believe I've ever "badmouthed" them. Maybe you think my facts are "badmouthing"? Well, I can't help that. Facts are facts. I posted what we discussed and observed during our drive. That's all.

Insults? That twice you've accused me of that now (also in the other thread). Show me. Or please apologize.

At any rate, today I remembered something else the Tesla owner said. She commutes about 20-30 minutes each way to work. She said she became aware of how often she unconsciously would look at the gas gauge of her GMC. But since her Tesla tops off at home each night, and her commute is well within the car's range, she doesn't think about it (until she finds herself looking for a 'gas gauge' in the Tesla! ;) ).

Maybe a small thing, but it is nice.

-ERD50
 
You can listen to the fellow who pretty much daily badmouths EV's, and insults those that think differently than him.

Or you can believe the actual Tesla owners: Christine, Ready, Euroscott, ClifP, and myself. Who actually know what we are talking about. Who all say how amazing their Tesla's are.

The above review reads like an amazon review, where its clear they want everyone not to purchase the product (because they are a competitor).
+1. Why would someone who clearly has zero interest *** in owning anything remotely like a Tesla Model S think others would be interested in a lengthy review of the car, especially after a 20 minute ride in one? Couldn't find a single good feature of any substance.

*** 'I just never got the bug to own a performance car. To me, a car is something to spend the least amount of money on to get me reliably from A to B in reasonable comfort and safety. I don't think of cars as status symbols, I just don't care about that.'
 
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I’ve seen a lot more Teslas in my Arizona locale than in my Illinois locale. Probably more Teslas in North Scottsdale than Chevys. I like the looks of the model S, not so much the model X. I don’t know if I’ve seen a Model 3.

I’ve been following Casey Neistat on YouTube for a while. He recently bought a Tesla S. Now he’s reviewed the model 3. https://youtu.be/1gTBZyGJyQc
 
One of my favorite features of our Model 3 (and all Teslas) is the ability to log into the car through an IPhone app and see exactly where the car is, what direction it’s traveling, and at what speed. I never have to ask DH what time he will be home for dinner anymore. I just peak at the app and I know exactly where he is.

Do any other cars have this feature? It seems like it would be relatively simple to implement.
 
^Supershuttle vans have that feature. When I make reservations for a trip to the airport, I get a text in advance of the pickup showing a map with the van’s location. Same thing at the airport. I check in via text. I get a text back showing a map with my location and the location of the van. I do not get the van’s speed though.
 
One of my favorite features of our Model 3 (and all Teslas) is the ability to log into the car through an IPhone app and see exactly where the car is, what direction it’s traveling, and at what speed. I never have to ask DH what time he will be home for dinner anymore. I just peak at the app and I know exactly where he is.



Do any other cars have this feature? It seems like it would be relatively simple to implement.
The Waze app has similar feature, I can send my ETA to friends and they can see where I'm at. So basically any car can have that feature.
 
The point I was trying to make is that the feature is built into the car, not the phone. So if somebody steals my Tesla I can log into the car and see where it’s at and what direction it’s headed. Smartphones can of course share their location if you choose to do so, but with the Tesla I can see where the car is located, not where the driver’s smartphone is located.
 
+1. Why would someone who clearly has zero interest *** in owning anything remotely like a Tesla Model S think others would be interested in a lengthy review of the car, especially after a 20 minute ride in one? Couldn't find a single good feature of any substance.

*** 'I just never got the bug to own a performance car. To me, a car is something to spend the least amount of money on to get me reliably from A to B in reasonable comfort and safety. I don't think of cars as status symbols, I just don't care about that.'

There's really no mystery here. Just because I am not going to buy something, doesn't mean I don't have an interest in it. I've gone to car museums and spent hours viewing dozens of cars I would never buy, but I went online and studied a lot about them, watched videos about them, discussed them with others, shared our thoughts, etc. I watched that guy parachute from the edge of space, interesting, but I ain't gonna do that either.

I am interested in the car, and discussing it with the owner, so I gave my impressions, and some things the owner shared with me.

... Couldn't find a single good feature of any substance. ...

Really?

"and I know it accel faster than any car I'd ever been in,"


" but w/o engine noise, it just did not seem exciting. A personal thing I guess, some will miss it, others will think it's cool to accel w/o the "rrrrrooooaarrrrr"."


"there was no idling engine sound. Again, to me, kind of a pro/con thing,"


"He didn't seem to think there any fit-finish issues like we've heard about with recent Model 3s"


" And he seems to like it, said if he gets another it will have Ludicrous mode"


"I've always felt that there are many things that are attractive about EVs"


"I know Telsa batteries have held up well"


Any of the negative stuff came up as we had our ride or discussed it at dinner. So are you saying I shouldn't share those comments as well? Only fan comments allowed?

-ERD50
 
The point I was trying to make is that the feature is built into the car, not the phone. So if somebody steals my Tesla I can log into the car and see where it’s at and what direction it’s headed. Smartphones can of course share their location if you choose to do so, but with the Tesla I can see where the car is located, not where the driver’s smartphone is located.

Does your Tesla have a fingerprint reader to authorize you to start it? My phone has one.

Also, does the car have to be "active" (on) for you to log in to see where it is? If not, someone can load it on a trailer to steal it for stripping and selling the parts.
 
+1. Why would someone who clearly has zero interest *** in owning anything remotely like a Tesla Model S think others would be interested in a lengthy review of the car, especially after a 20 minute ride in one? Couldn't find a single good feature of any substance.

*** 'I just never got the bug to own a performance car. To me, a car is something to spend the least amount of money on to get me reliably from A to B in reasonable comfort and safety. I don't think of cars as status symbols, I just don't care about that.'

And a lengthy review where he falls all over himself trying to be negative at every opportunity.
 
Does your Tesla have a fingerprint reader to authorize you to start it? My phone has one.

Also, does the car have to be "active" (on) for you to log in to see where it is? If not, someone can load it on a trailer to steal it for stripping and selling the parts.

Tesla has the highest recovery rate of stolen vehicles. You can look it up.

To match the Model 3 being the safest vehicle tested in the last 7 years by NHSTA.

Along with highest consumer satisfaction per Consumer Reports.
 
Tesla has the highest recovery rate of stolen vehicles. You can look it up.

To match the Model 3 being the safest vehicle tested in the last 7 years by NHSTA.

Along with highest consumer satisfaction per Consumer Reports.

I was wondering if it has a fingerprint reader to authenticate and start the car? Or is there a key?

I really don't know what the starting procedure is for the Tesla's.

Good to hear they are easily recoverable and not quickly stripped for parts. That's a big business in south Texas as parts go south to Mexico and South America quickly.
 
The point I was trying to make is that the feature is built into the car, not the phone. So if somebody steals my Tesla I can log into the car and see where it’s at and what direction it’s headed. Smartphones can of course share their location if you choose to do so, but with the Tesla I can see where the car is located, not where the driver’s smartphone is located.
So then to your point, it's not a revolutionary feature, my Lincoln MKC app will show where my vehicle is. That said, never found a need to use that feature. If somebody steals my car, I hope they totally strip it down for parts or drive it into the ocean and fully submerge it as I've seen how a car that's been stolen can be returned.
 
... He has had it glitch out on him about 3x a week, radio stuck, heat full on, indicates it is in Park but it is in Reverse, lots of odd things that required the extended "Control-Alt-Delete" procedure to clear up. The latest when he was backing into the garage. He almost hit the wall before he realized the sensors had glitched out, and were not giving him the warning that he was near the back wall. He seems to think this will 'clear up', as he heard that was the case with someone else he knows with a Tesla, but I told him he's got the SW updates that they probably got at the time, so there is something wrong...

Not good! I have enough problems with "Windoz", I don't need a buggy car to add to the aggravation. Can that really be the norm with Tesla cars?

"Windoz" lately has not caused problems 3x a week, else I would break the laptop over my knee.

If the simpler operational software is so buggy, how do people trust the "autopilot"?
 
I was wondering if it has a fingerprint reader to authenticate and start the car? Or is there a key?

I really don't know what the starting procedure is for the Tesla's.

Good to hear they are easily recoverable and not quickly stripped for parts. That's a big business in south Texas as parts go south to Mexico and South America quickly.

No fingerprint reader in the Tesla. I think I read somewhere that another auto manufacturer is adding that feature to their cars as an alternative to a key.

The Tesla uses your smartphone as a key. As long as your phone is in your pocket it will unlock the doors and let you drive. They do also provide a card that looks like a credit card and acts as a key if your phone is not available or the battery dies.

There is no requirement for the car to be on for my IPhone to communicate with it and identify its location. As for whether a good thief could disable the onboard computer system to prevent location tracking, I have no idea but I would guess there’s a way to do so if you try hard enough.

My comments pertain primarily to the Model 3, although any of the late model Teslas have these features. Cars that were built a few years ago do not have all of the technology in the current models.
 
Not good! I have enough problems with "Windoz", I don't need a buggy car to add to the aggravation. Can that really be the norm with Tesla cars?

"Windoz" lately has not caused problems 3x a week, else I would break the laptop over my knee.

If the simpler operational software is so buggy, how do people trust the "autopilot"?

I did not say it was the norm (don't get me in any more trouble with the fans!).

But it is what he experienced. However, when he called Tesla support, they walked him through this extended 'Control-Alt-Delete' procedure, and when he asked "what if it does it again?", they casually said "well, now you know the procedure". So that makes it sound as if it isn't totally uncommon.

I also understand that this is separate from the other car systems, so I don't think it affects other things. But not indicating the correct state of Park-Forward-Reverse is pretty serious in my book.

I urged him to push for a fix, and not just wait for it 'work itself out'.

-ERD50
 
I’ve had the same problems with my Model 3. The screen has locked up once or twice and required a reboot. And a few times the software just didn’t do what it was supposed to do...again fixed by a reboot. DH was getting very frustrated with the car during the first week because of these issues.

Unfortunately there is no way to experience all of this additional technology in a car without experiencing a few bugs. I’m comfortable with the fact that the car is upgradeable through software and that eventually Tesla will fix all of these bugs.

I still remember buying my 2007 Lexus LS460 and paying for the self parking feature. It was supposed to be able to parallel park by itself. It was a complete joke. I might have gotten it to work once in the three years I leased the car. But because Lexus chose not to make their software upgradeable, I was permanently stuck with a non-working feature that I paid for. Tesla figured out how to use upgradeable software rather than “firmware” that is fixed in functionality for the life of the vehicle. That’s why they have been so successful with their customers in spite of the initial bugs.

When Consumer Reports first tested the Model 3 they rated it unacceptable because the braking distance was too long. Elon tweeted that a software update to fix it would be out shortly, and within a few days they sent an update out that fixed the problem. Consumer Reports then retested the car and confirmed the brakes were now working fine. What other car company could have done this? Any other manufacturer would have needed to initiate a major recall, which would have cost millions of dollars and wasted everyone’s time with additional service visits. That is what makes Tesla so impressive.
 
Im curious. Is there any actual tesla owners that wouldnt buy another? You Tesla owners know what im talking about. I own two and cant see myself not buying another. These people who once rode in one or know someone who has one has no idea.

My model s now has 90,000 miles and i have put nothing into this car other than a set of tires

Who owns one and is going back to a gas car??
 
I’ve had the same problems with my Model 3. The screen has locked up once or twice and required a reboot. And a few times the software just didn’t do what it was supposed to do...again fixed by a reboot. DH was getting very frustrated with the car during the first week because of these issues.

Unfortunately there is no way to experience all of this additional technology in a car without experiencing a few bugs. I’m comfortable with the fact that the car is upgradeable through software and that eventually Tesla will fix all of these bugs.

I still remember buying my 2007 Lexus LS460 and paying for the self parking feature. It was supposed to be able to parallel park by itself. It was a complete joke. I might have gotten it to work once in the three years I leased the car. But because Lexus chose not to make their software upgradeable, I was permanently stuck with a non-working feature that I paid for. Tesla figured out how to use upgradeable software rather than “firmware” that is fixed in functionality for the life of the vehicle. That’s why they have been so successful with their customers in spite of the initial bugs...

It is sad that software industry has set a bad precedent, and conditioned customers to accept buggy products as a fact of life. It does not have to be that way.

In the case of Lexus, I wonder why there has not been a class action lawsuit against the selling of a non-working feature.

It is most likely the firmware in your Lexus could be upgraded, although it would have to be done at the dealer, and not wirelessly via the Internet. But in this case, Lexus decided to orphan the feature and not continue the development.
 
...As for whether a good thief could disable the onboard computer system to prevent location tracking, I have no idea but I would guess there’s a way to do so if you try hard enough...
FYI, I believe there are a couple of options related to a user entering a PIN now that came via Over-The-Air/OTA. An additional PIN input requirement is something akin to 2FA (secondary factor auth).

a) Pin to drive in case you are worried about your FOB or it (electronic code) being compromised

b) Pin to disable remote access within car menus -- ie. theif gets your car and tries to disable remote access/watching.
 
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About firmware update over the Internet, for a long time now, firmware in electronic products is stored in rewritable non-volatile memory and can be reprogrammed. All it takes is for the product to have access to the Internet.

Home WiFi routers have been updateable like this for more than a decade. In recent years, smart TVs and DVD/Blu-Ray players with Internet access have been updated the same way. Car makers are behind the curve, except for Tesla of course.
 
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