Asking about ethnicity?

[Major Tom]

A very close friend of mine is mixed race (one black parent, and one white). She was the subject of a great deal of discrimination from both black and white kids when growing up. Without going into detail, her home situation made matters much worse in that respect. As a result, for much of her life, she struggled with her own feelings of identity. One thing in particular that really sets her off, is when one of the first questions she is asked by anyone pertains to her race or ethnic identity. Some folk, unbelievably, are as indelicate as to flat-out ask, "What are you?" However the question is asked though, she really, really doesn't appreciate it. It makes her feel objectified and belittled.

She told me that, among other things, one thing she noticed about me when we first met, was that I never asked her any questions about her racial or ethnic background. We just liked each other, and started talking about subjects of mutual interest. My response was that the question wasn't even in my head. I noticed several things about her that I liked and was interested in, but her skin color and physical features were nowhere in that list.

In my opinion, asking about accents is nearly always fine but, with someone you have just met, asking questions about appearance is a much more shaky proposition.

 

[joeea]

I know people who are proud of, and interested in talking about their Mexican or African heritage. You make it sound like it is something to be ashamed of? I don't understand.

Okay, you don't understand.

Although I'd agree with most here, I just don't see it as socially acceptable to ask a stranger about their ethnic/racial background just based on their looks, and I wouldn't do it.

Okay, you don't understand but you wouldn't do it anyway.

 

[joeea]

One thing in particular that really sets her off, is when one of the first questions she is asked by anyone pertains to her race or ethnic identity. Some folk, unbelievably, are as indelicate as to flat-out ask, "What are you?"

Sadly, it's not unbelievable - even more so after reading some of the responses here.

 

[Amethyst]

I love to try to figure out where people are from, or have lived, from their accents.

Naturally, I don't ask just anybody, or even most people. If I do, it's because either we're already friendly, or I am able to volunteer a pertinent compliment. I don't think anyone has ever been offended.

I asked somebody on a tour group what part of Michigan they were from before they even mentioned being from Michigan. I swear, it just popped out of my mouth, because the accent was so strong...but they weren't offended at all. They're proud Michiganders (they liked that I knew that word).

When we were in Italy, we had a number of English-speaking tour guides (One told me that English classes are mandatory in Italian public schools due to being in the EU). One spoke absolutely superior English with an almost tone-perfect London accent, so I asked her if she had studied in the UK. It turned out she had obtained a Ph. D. in English and French literature while living in London. That's when I admitted I'd noticed the London accent. She smiled and said, "Yes, but I know I make mistakes." She did have little quirks which revealed (to me) that she wasn't really British, but I wasn't about to mention that.

It was a compliment to her, and a chance to mention her education level, which is higher than mine.

 

[Amethyst]

Gaah. I can't even. She feels belittled because that's what the askers are trying to do.

Some folk, unbelievably, are as indelicate as to flat-out ask, "What are you?" n.

 

[Nemo2]

Perhaps some people are confusing conversation with interrogation?

 

[Amethyst]

I don't particularly like having my body commented on by strangers, even if it's meant as a compliment. They are still setting me 'apart,' and that's uncomfortable. Older women seem particularly prone to this.

If they have come to know me, then these kinds of comments start to be OK. It's because I know the other person well enough to know their intentions toward me.

Unique dress, on the other hand, is a personal choice and can be considered a personal statement, as if spoken aloud. People's remarks, like their clothing choices, are appropriate subjects for comment. That is just my opinion. In either case, one does not want to start out with a challenge: "Why do you wear that weird colander on your head?"

Of course we can see the difference, it's a diverse world. I'm glad we're not all the same shade of grey. It's the differences that make life interesting. Why is it wrong to ask someone about themselves just because they have different skin, are taller, have blue eyes, dress uniquely, or talk with an accent? Doesn't everyone want to be noticed and appreciated?

 

[EastWest Gal]

The word is "different”. See yourself as the one who is different and the world shifts.

 

[pj.mask]

As a quarter white household, I’d be curious how many of the comments saying it is offensive when someone (politely) asks about your background/ethnicity/etc are white Americans?

I have traveled extensively and more than half of the people I spend time with are minorities; never had a bad reaction to asking about where they are from or where their heritage is from. I am more delicate in the last few years since racism seems to be in vogue (and I am light skinned).

I think some people are confusing asking a question with rude behavior. You can do both at the same time or you can do them separately. Rude behavior usually gets a rude response. Asking a question with genuine curiosity (even if ignorant) usually gets information and a learning experience. I have never had a bad reaction on this but it isn’t the first words out of my mouth. I also don’t have conversations with people who are addicted to anger or being offended.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

To me this issue comes down to there isn't a good way to ask this without opening yourself up to some trouble IMO. I can usually tell what ethnicity someone is, at least to my satisfaction. The few times I can't tell I let it go. To me it hardly matters.

Heck, there have been very rare times I couldn't tell the gender of a person. But never in a million years would I ask them. It just doesn't matter. It's none of my business.

 

[Aerides]

Like most things it's all in context and nuance. And location, who is doing the asking, who is being asked, etc., are all factors.

A couple of examples:

I have a rarely-noticed physical genetic mutation. Every now and then a complete stranger I have just met will point it out - usually quite stupidly - "DID YOU KNOW YOU HAVE....!!!"
I know it's a totally innocent question and reaction, but It freezes me whenever it happens as, it's pretty rare someone notices, and when they do it feels almost piercing. When a friend finally notices (and many never do), it's no big deal and I laugh and say what took you so long.

I used to have an accent. I learned very quickly that a small but noticeable number of people would not listen to what I was saying, but simply how I was speaking. They'd respond with some dazed over smile and, ignoring what I'd said or asked, go "where are you from?" then I'd get "no, what part?", "oh where's that?", "I've been to london, is it near that?", "do you watch Dr. Who?" - and seriously no this gets annoying. And this would be at work, so I really learned to speak as american as I could.

I know both are examples of people just being curious and no ill intent, but both make me feel singled out, and are usually a distraction or an interruption, or an embarrassment. I'm not embarrassed by my accent or my mutation, I'd just rather not have a big deal made when I'm out minding my own business.

When it comes to asking about accents or skin or background, I love this video:

 

[mountainsoft]

"Are you black?"
"Are you Mexican?"
You think everyone wants that?
You think that shows appreciation?

Obviously that was my example of what NOT to ask, but it's funny how some have latched onto that as if I would actually speak to people that way. Or that I'm singling out people because of their race. Ironic that a question meant to find out how to politely discuss someone's heritage ended up being offensive.

Clearly the answer is to keep my curiosity and comments to myself. That's sad.

I've been teased most of my life for being different. First as the Kindergartner who was raised by his grandparents and dressed like an old man at 5 years old. Then as the new white kid at the mostly black grade school. When we moved to Washington I was teased for my southern accent. In high school kids called me Disco Kid because my mom bought me satin shirts and gym shorts (and no, I didn't dance). In college I was teased as "the boy" since I skipped senior year of high school and went straight to college. As a young father I put up with the stink eye for being one of the first Mr Mom's before that was common (long before there were changing tables in men's restrooms). And I've never fit into the usual social norm of talking about sports or work.

Having experienced it myself, I would never tease or harass someone for being different. I genuinely take an interest in what makes a person unique and special. I live by the old rule "do unto others", and would never ask something of someone I would be uncomfortable answering myself.

Let's see, I can't ask anything personal, can't talk about religion or politics, don't know anything about sports, so I guess I'm left with "nice weather we're having". It's no wonder people walk around with their nose in their phones not talking to one another.

 

[DFDubb]

Obviously that was my example of what NOT to ask, but it's funny how some have latched onto that as if I would actually speak to people that way. Or that I'm singling out people because of their race. Ironic that a question meant to find out how to politely discuss someone's heritage ended up being offensive.

Clearly the answer is to keep my curiosity and comments to myself. That's sad.

I've been teased most of my life for being different. First as the Kindergartner who was raised by his grandparents and dressed like an old man at 5 years old. Then as the new white kid at the mostly black grade school. When we moved to Washington I was teased for my southern accent. In high school kids called me Disco Kid because my mom bought me satin shirts and gym shorts (and no, I didn't dance). In college I was teased as "the boy" since I skipped senior year of high school and went straight to college. As a young father I put up with the stink eye for being one of the first Mr Mom's before that was common (long before there were changing tables in men's restrooms). And I've never fit into the usual social norm of talking about sports or work.

Having experienced it myself, I would never tease or harass someone for being different. I genuinely take an interest in what makes a person unique and special. I live by the old rule "do unto others", and would never ask something of someone I would be uncomfortable answering myself.

Let's see, I can't ask anything personal, can't talk about religion or politics, don't know anything about sports, so I guess I'm left with "nice weather we're having". It's no wonder people walk around with their nose in their phones not talking to one another.

Did you enjoy being teased about the way you were dressed? About being a minority (I too was a rare white boy at a predominately black middle school)? About your weird accent? I imagine you weren't a big fan of people bringing it up, but that's just a guess.

If only there were something we could do as a society to try and change this behavior in our kids.

 

[Gumby]

If only there were something we could do to prevent people from becoming self appointed arbiters of what is and is not considered offensive by groups of people who are not them.

 

[mountainsoft]

Did you enjoy being teased about the way you were dressed? About being a minority (I too was a rare white boy at a predominately black middle school)? About your weird accent? I imagine you weren't a big fan of people bringing it up, but that's just a guess.

There's a big difference between making fun of someone "Haay Y'all Dern Tootin", and asking if I grew up in the south. And no, I didn't mind if people were genuinely curious.

 

[Chuckanut]

Many years ago my parents were friends with a couple whose parents migrated from Spain to the USA. Their last name was Martinez. The man worked for a MegaCorp in the 80's and the company was trying to prove it hired lots of people from various ethnic groups.

When filling out newly required information card for HR, the HR rep looked at the husband and said "So you are Mexican-American. Great!". His reply, said with pride and perhaps a touch of arrogance, was priceless, "No. I am Castillian".

 

[Nemo2]

If only there were something we could do to prevent people from becoming self appointed arbiters of what is and is not considered offensive by groups of people who are not them.

Naah, there are too many careers at stake riding this particular pony.

 

[Chuckanut]

I learned a long time ago that all Asians are not the same. I remember a Korean man telling me that many older South Koreans would not mind if a North Korean missile flew over South Korean territory on its way to Tokyo. They remember the brutal occupation of their country prior to WW2.

As an Italian-American, if I dress appropriately, and don't carry a camera, tour book and other such tourist items, I am routinely assumed to be a native born Italian when in Italy. Alas, my response must be "Mi dispiace. Sono Americano. Non parlo l'italiano molto bene".

I grieve that modern diversity and multiculturalism seems focused on emphasizing our differences, and dividing us into warring groups. When my mother made 'Spanish Rice' (aka. paella) our friends with Spanish heritage did not scream about cultural appropriation. Instead, they ate it with great gusto.

 

[pj.mask]

I remember a Korean man telling me that many older South Koreans would not mind if a North Korean missile flew over South Korean territory on its way to Tokyo. They remember the brutal occupation of their country prior to WW2.

...

I grieve that modern diversity and multiculturalism seems focused on emphasizing our differences, and dividing us into warring groups.

Some people focus on negatives and talk about other countries/ethnicities/people that way. Others are curious. It is easy to tell the difference.

 

[candrew]

If only there were something we could do to prevent people from becoming self appointed arbiters of what is and is not considered offensive by groups of people who are not them.

Agreed.

And if only there were something that we could do to help people understand that their racially ambigous/ethnic/"other" curiosities should never come at the expense of another individual's right to disclose/discuss that information on their terms absent the unsolicited and sometimes awkward prying of others. Regardless of how innocent or well intentioned those inquiries may be.

A previous poster mentioned that he feels the only fair game left is talking about the weather. Yep, that's a great place to start. DW and I are perpetual travelers. Asking another person's opinion about our current locale is another good place to start. We'll ask about places to eat, sites to visit. Who knows, those discussions may end up satisfying your curiosity anyway without having to ask loaded questions or making inquiries that are couched in compliments about skin tone, hair, accent, etc. And if that person doesn't go there, then let it be!

It bears repeating - just because "I" have no problem with you or anyone else for that matter asking me about my origins/ethnicity/religion/skin color/whatever, (and I don't) that does not automatically mean that everyone else is fair game, as well. If I don't want to answer, then I won't. Other folks may not feel empowered to do the same and should not be put in a position of having to explain themselves out of a desire on their part to ameliorate an otherwise avoidably awkward encounter on my part.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Mountain, there was nothing wrong with the question you asked. Obviously when you mentioned skin color versus accent it was evident that was your example of what not to do.

 

[Gumby]

Agreed.

And if only there were something that we could do to help people understand that their racially ambigous/ethnic/"other" curiosities should never come at the expense of another individual's right to disclose/discuss that information on their terms absent the unsolicited and sometimes awkward prying of others. Regardless of how innocent or well intentioned those inquiries may be.

A previous poster mentioned that he feels the only fair game left is talking about the weather. Yep, that's a great place to start. DW and I are perpetual travelers. Asking another person's opinion about our current locale is another good place to start. We'll ask about places to eat, sites to visit. Who knows, those discussions may end up satisfying your curiosity anyway without having to ask loaded questions or making inquiries that are couched in compliments about skin tone, hair, accent, etc. And if that person doesn't go there, then let it be!

It bears repeating - just because "I" have no problem with you or anyone else for that matter asking me about my origins/ethnicity/religion/skin color/whatever, (and I don't) that does not automatically mean that everyone else is fair game, as well. If I don't want to answer, then I won't. Other folks may not feel empowered to do the same and should not be put in a position of having to explain themselves out of a desire on their part to ameliorate an otherwise avoidably awkward encounter on my part.

The essence of good manners and gracious behavior is not making other people uncomfortable. I personally would never ask about or comment on another person's physical appearance because it risks doing just that. For the same reason, I would never directly ask them about the way they speak. But, in my view, it is officious and wrong to chide someone for the very fact of being curious, as at least one poster here has done. As I mentioned in my very first post on this thread, people are curious the world over.

 

[Ronstar]

I have never asked the ethnicity of anyone. And I won’t because it could make someone uncomfortable.

 

[braumeister]

I've always had a very good ear for accents. Growing up in NYC I could usually tell which of the five boroughs a person was from after listening to them for a few minutes.

And being well traveled, I can generally identify where a person grew up from their accent, sometimes even which part of a country.

Since I rarely have the opportunity to ask directly, I'll often try to find out someone's origin obliquely, and I get a big kick out of it when I find that I'm right. If I find that I was wrong, that just adds another data point to my internal database of accents. It's a lot of fun.

 

[Dtail]

Naah, there are too many careers at stake riding this particular pony.

Slipped that one in.
Very good.