Shut off valve (plumbing question)

[freedomatlast]

I just realized, there’s a sharkbite cap. If all goes wrong, I can just cap it off until summer. It would be no problem to cut that pipe an cap it off. That is now officially plan B.

Sharkbite also makes a ball valve with a drain that you could use to replace the existing valve if for some reason the washer replacement isn't successful.

The SKU is 22304-0000LF.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-Brass-1-2-in-Push-to-Connect-Ball-Valve/1000680101?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-rpe-_-google-_-pla-_-142-_-sospipeandfittings-_-1000680101-_-0&cm_mmc=src-_-c-_-prd-_-rpe-_-google-_-rough_plumbing_and_electrical-_-PLA%20_RPE_Rough%20Plumbing%20and%20Electrical_Low%20Priority-_--_-0-_-0&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8P66rYrx5QIVlZOzCh31mwj_EAQYBCABEgLW-_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


If it's easier, the Sharkbite valve with drain could be added between the outside spigot and the existing valve, instead of replacing the existing valve.

Using this idea, no heat would be required. All you would need to do is make two cuts with a tubing cutter and push the ends of the pipe into the new Sharkbite valve.

If this valve would ever need to be replaced in the future, you can use the Sharkbite tool to simply disengage the pipe from each end of the valve and install the new valve in its place.

 

[HadEnuff]

In my previous home I had a very similar situation. The valve to my outdoor spigot would not close all the way. It looked like this valve. Also, there were a few valves that opened or closed flow to other areas of the house, that hadn't been budged in years (more likely, decades).
I opted to call my favorite plumber and while he was there, I had him replace them all with ball valves. It didn't seem so expensive to me to have him do all of them in one visit.

Best of luck!

 

[samclem]

Ball valves are nice in many ways. One downside of them is that they can't be repaired. If they leak (usually due to a scratch in the seat due to grit, rust, etc) then the whole valve needs to be replaced. With the globe valves, the things that wear (the washer and the packing) can be replaced many times. But, they typically do need attention more often than ball valves.

Jerry, it might not be a bad idea to let the penetrating oil work all day today, with more on Monday. I wouldn't be surprised if you do need some heat on it, but you can't use very much. And you'll also want to have some packing thread on hand for that stem.
It's not leaking now, but there's a good chance it will after all this jostling.

Good luck! Keep your profane words nearby, these jobs use a lot of them.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I would change it to a Ball Valve myself. I would also do it myself. This is how I would do it. Plumbing is not difficult as long as you have patience (as a home owner).

Also if it we me I would put a union not only on top but on the bottom of the valve too. Then you could build most of it on the workbench and just screw it in.

1) Go buy a canister of MAP gas and a Gas Torch attachment. (Home Depot or Lowes)

2) Turn off main water and drain the system near the valve as much as possible.

3) Unscrew the TOP union that is already there.

4) Heat up the VALVE where it is sweated (Soldered to the "T") NOT the TEE fitting and remove the valve, it should leave the joining copper pipe, still connected to the TEE. Only heat the lower VALVE flange.

5) Buy another Union and sweat it onto the joining pipe above that is still soldered to the Tee.

6) With a new Ball Valve, make up the new insert on the bench. This will consist of The Valve, and 2 corresponding Unions compatible with the ones already there (Male or Female etc.) Make sure you measure the length to fit into the existing space.

7) Bolt the new valve assembly into the space and you are done.

8) Take the whopping amount of money you saved by not hiring a plumber and go
"Blow That Dough"

If ANY of the above scares you. Hire the crack to do it.

 

[ERD50]

Lot's of good tips, and I may have missed this, but always try the simple things first.

Have you tried fully opening the outdoor spigots and then try opening and closing the shutoff valve several times? It's possible that something has lodged in there and is keeping the seat open enough to leak. Flushing it in this way just might loosen it.

OK, maybe a 1 in a 1,000 chance, but it is easy.

I was able to fix a leaky valve in my water softener by simply reversing the sealing face of the valve (it was symmetrical). And in fact, the first thing in the troubleshooting guide for my water softener is to manually flip those valves several times to dislodge any gunk that might hold them open.

Good luck!

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

FYI, here's a good description and pro/con of ball valve vs gate vs globe. I was familiar with the terms, but not the details:

https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2012/11/08/whats-the-difference-shutoff-valves-ball-gate-and-globe

BALL:

GATE:

GLOBE:

-ERD50

 

[ShokWaveRider]

^^^^^ Good Post, if you can get it apart without breaking anything, and replace the Rubber Washer, that will fix it.

 

[Jerry1]

You guys are great. I really appreciate the help I have received from the members of this board on many topics.

For today, as Samclem indicated, I have put penetrating oil on it and we'll see if it comes loose tomorrow. If it does, then I'll shut off the water and let the fun begin. Still hoping for a washer repair but I also have a few good options if it doesn't.

Thanks.

 

[Jerry1]

Couldn't wait any longer. Good news, it broke free with no problem. It was tight and having it held with my Channel Lock's was necessary, but it turned free with no issues. Then I just snugged it back up for the night. I'll be draining water and looking at it tomorrow - when the plumbing store is open.

 

[samclem]

Couldn't wait any longer. Good news, it broke free with no problem. It was tight and having it held with my Channel Lock's was necessary, but it turned free with no issues. Then I just snugged it back up for the night. I'll be draining water and looking at it tomorrow - when the plumbing store is open.

You are a thrillseeker. If I touch a pipe with a wrench when the stores are closed it results in an instant deluge.
I wonder if there's any goop you should put on the threads of the valve so it will come apart easily next time. Teflon tape or paste probably wouldn't hurt.
Congrats! Go buy a lottery ticket while fate is smiling on you.

 

[ncbill]

^^^^^ Good Post, if you can get it apart without breaking anything, and replace the Rubber Washer, that will fix it.

Hopefully the part is readily available.

I had an outside frost-free sillcock (don't know why they bothered this far south) where the plastic washer failed...even calling the company (Watts Regulator) directly they told me it was too old for them to stock replacement parts.

I ended up cutting a hole into the sheetrock inside to replace the entire sillcock.

 

[mountainsoft]

Hopefully the part is readily available.

I had an outside frost-free sillcock (don't know why they bothered this far south) where the plastic washer failed...even calling the company (Watts Regulator) directly they told me it was too old for them to stock replacement parts.

I usually hit up the small mom and pop hardware stores for items like that. It's amazing how much oddball stuff they carry that you can't find at the large home centers. Many parts are common items, even if the manufacturer stops carrying them.

Of course, sometimes parts just aren't available anymore and replacing the fixture is the best option. Depending on the location of the hole you had to cut in the wall, it's sometimes wise to install an access panel in case you need to get at it again in the future.

 

[Chuckanut]

I ran into one problem when I called a plumber for the same problem you have....

My city says that only they can shut off the water at the main in front of my house. If anybody else does it and there's a problem, then I am on the hook for repairs. If they do it, they get to pay. I did not know that.

The plumber offered to shut off the water at the main and told me that while he has never had a problem with the main in over 20 years of work, I had to take responsibility if he did. I had no problem, thankfully and the new 1/4 turn valve is much nicer.

I watched the guy replace the valve and I am glad I did not try it myself.

 

[Jerry1]

Job is done.

Everything went well. Shut off the water and unscrewed the stem and it was clearly a washer problem. The seat inside the valve looked fine. The washer was some sort of fiber washer. Guessing it was pretty old. It had turned tattered and was coming apart. Went to the plumbing store. They confirmed that there is no way to replace the entire stem. Nothing is standard. So, I bought a washer and some packing rope and rebuilt the valve. No problems.

I have the water back on and will see if there's any water leaking to the spigots. I'll give it a couple days before I'm convinced it worked, but there's no reason it shouldn't have. Just need to make sure before temps turn bitterly cold.

Plumbing store person was helpful, but kept trying to convince me to just get a new valve. I'm sure I could do the job, but as I said, I'm just not comfortable sweating pipe and while I agree that a ball valve would be better, for the $5 I spent along with about an hour of my time, I just can't see replacing the valve as long as it's working. If it were a critical part and/or I was having trouble with the valve, I would replace it in a minute, but if it's good to go for $5, then it's good to go.

Again, I really appreciate everyone's input. It was all worth considering and helpful to have my duck in a row before starting. Now I'll go drain my utility tub as it doesn't look like I'll be needing any emergency flush water.

I think now I'll take my shower and a nap. That counts as a work day in the land of retirement.

 

[GravitySucks]

I love this forum, but dang we enjoy giving advice!
38 posts about changing a washer. ��

I think now I'll take my shower and a nap. That counts as a work day in the land of retirement.

Come in, that's the whole weeks worth of work Jerry!

 

[samclem]

Great news. Yep, there's no sense in replacing this valve that gets cycled once per year. If the new washer seats 20 times, you've bought yourself 2 more decades.

 

[travelover]

Darn, that was way too easy. Now what will we worry about?

 

[Jerry1]

I love this forum, but dang we enjoy giving advice!
38 posts about changing a washer. ��


Come in, that's the whole weeks worth of work Jerry!

We’re up to 85 posts on resetting a GFI outlet.

I liken this to lunch at work when friends would sit around and solve all sorts of problems like this. That’s a good thing.

 

[mcbraemer]

Keep it Simple

My humble advice is to call a plumber and have a brand new valve installed. The price to have a pro fix your old valve may be equal to or more than doing the right thing in this case.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Saw the title of this post and thought it might be another prostate trouble post.

 

[travelover]

My humble advice is to call a plumber and have a brand new valve installed. The price to have a pro fix your old valve may be equal to or more than doing the right thing in this case.

My humble advice is to read post #39.

 

[Winemaker]

Just remember to tighten up the drain cap on the side of the valve. A dear friend opened it in the fall to allow air to enter, while the outside valve drained. When his wife turned the valve on in the spring, water ran for days, under their flooring and created a big mess.

 

[NateW]

That valve looks like it has a replaceable valve seat

Go ahead and disassemble the valve and swap out its washer and see if then it shuts off the water. When you have the stem assembly out, look into the valve body at what the rubber washer seals against. That is the valve seat. If it's smooth where the washer seals, it's probably ok. If rough or pitted, it should be replaced if it's replaceable. Is there a hex recessed into it (a six-sided hole in it's center)? If so, it's removable and you need a valve seat wrench to remove it. One of the big box stores will have a seat wrench and they are inexpensive. You can then remove the valve seat and take it to the hardware store to find a replacement.

Also available are inexpensive valve seat resurfacing tools and that may be an option too.

 

[Bamaman]

My washing machine cold water ball valve is leaking. It's designed to either be sweated or screwed into a shark bite fitting. And it's behind sheet rock. I'll get around to it in a few more days--since we've moved elsewhere.

 

[ERD50]

My humble advice is to read post #39.

Shhhhh! Let's see how long people will keep trying to fix this.

-ERD50