Plight of older people

[NW-Bound]

It is really easy to imagine yourself being 90 years old, sitting comfortably in your chair with the cat on your lap, enjoying a nice sip of tea, looking around and seeing everything is fine.

But it typically doesn't work that way. You get macular degeneration and go blind. You can't drive. You forget how to handle finances. You get obsessed with cats and decide 100 is better than 1, and you are a cat hoarder and don't realize it. Etc...

From what I have seen with elderly relatives, you may have problems with aging that no amount of money can help.

If you are broke, you are in very deep doo-doo, but above a certain point, having more money does not help much. You cannot hire someone to suffer the ache and bodily misery for you.

As Khan famously said recently here on this forum: "Getting old sucks moose balls."

 

[Teacher Terry]

Joe, it’s people like you that make the world a better place. When we went to the Caribbean we saw some horrific poverty. We have done a lot of volunteering and also helping friends and family. We quit volunteering and now just help friends. I have known a lot of elderly people that remain sharp until the end. My best friends mom at 85 lives in a home, drives and is sharp. Her husband just died so I am helping her complete all the paperwork and there’s a ton because he was retired military. We are going to meet with a lawyer to do a new will and my friend and I are both on her bank account so her bills keep getting paid in case this is needed. My aunt still lives alone at 94 in her own apartment.

 

[youbet]

I happened across blogs of some people who were not old, only in their 50s, and they made such dumb financial decisions that it was like watching a train wreck.

And when they got destitute, their problems kept compounding by their poor decisions. It's like a gambler who keeps doubling up his bet after a loss, trying to recover.

I know this is strictly anecdotal, but literally all the impoverished seniors I'm personally familiar with got there over a long period of time and involved a series of non-optimum decisions and/or attempts to live a life style not supported by their earning abilitites/willingness to work. No doubt, many indigent seniors have health, divorce or other family problems, addictions or profoundly bad luck as the root cause. That's just not the case with the folks in my life.

Sometimes it's a struggle to help those who I perceive as having brought the situation upon themselves equally with those who clearly are victims of our system, circumstances or just bad luck. I try.

 

[dtbach]

I think the original post was a bit of a troll. There is a resurgence of vilifying the poor. It used to be mainly against people of color not it has moved on to the elderly poor.

No, I didn't start this as a troll. Actually I'm quite concerned about this subject as I'm active in our local Senior Center where I serve food on a weekly basis and do Meals on Wheels. I am also on the board which approves temporary (but usually permanent loans) to folks who are on hard times. I just don't what society can do to eliminate this situation on an equitable basis. Start a new government program in addition to SS and Medicare?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

No, I didn't start this as a troll. Actually I'm quite concerned about this subject as I'm active in our local Senior Center where I serve food on a weekly basis and do Meals on Wheels. I am also on the board which approves temporary (but usually permanent loans) to folks who are on hard times. I just don't what society can do to eliminate this situation on an equitable basis. Start a new government program in addition to SS and Medicare?

I think the government is doing about as much as they can. On a very real level, many private organizations (and people) do more to help those disadvantaged than the government does and I think that is how it should be. I also think that there is already adequate "coverage" (govt and private) for these folks but the problem is more of getting these folks linked to these available services. That is a problem that I don't think is very easy to solve.

 

[marko]

I know this is strictly anecdotal, but literally all the impoverished seniors I'm personally familiar with got there over a long period of time and involved a series of non-optimum decisions

+1
FWIW, I see this with my own mom, age 90. While sharp as a tack and physically able, she's grown increasingly cranky, stubborn and inflexible as she's aged. So many times I see her flushing money down the toilet on just stupid purchases, attitudes and decisions; she's also a sap for 101 small charities which she sends checks to every week and a very heavy tipper at restaurants.

Fortunately she is extremely well resourced and can buy her way out of such poor decisions but others obviously can't. She'll never live long enough to even put a tiny dent in it but I see it first-hand.

My attitude is that I stay hands-off until she were to go really off the spending rails. It's her money and it makes her happy but again, others don't have that luxury...(or supervision)

 

[JoeWras]

I just don't what society can do to eliminate this situation on an equitable basis. Start a new government program in addition to SS and Medicare?

I think the government is doing about as much as they can. On a very real level, many private organizations (and people) do more to help those disadvantaged than the government does and I think that is how it should be. I also think that there is already adequate "coverage" (govt and private) for these folks but the problem is more of getting these folks linked to these available services. That is a problem that I don't think is very easy to solve.

It is difficult. The org I work with has both paid and volunteers trying to work with people equitably. Working the cases takes a lot of time, research and compassion. There are a lot of government resources available, but for various reasons (fear of suits, losing job, etc.) it can languish. The org manages to unleash a lot of the resources, both in money and material. There is also quite a bit of private money available.

I don't think more government will help.

 

[NW-Bound]

The topic is about poor elderly people, but even people with some means face some serious problems too.

Not everyone has some trustworthy relatives or friends to act as their PoA in their final years. If you don't have one, I guess the state will step in to be your guardian, but who is going to be the one on the daily watch to make sure you are given the proper care and not taken advantage of?

More than being a decent person, the PoA should have personal concerns about your welfare. I am talking about love, compassion, and devotion.

Do your problems go away if you can afford your own Anna Nicole?

 

[targatom2019]

unless you have a mental problem, some long term illness or physically handicap no body in the great country should be homeless or poor.

I immigrated to this country in my early adult life with just a shirt on my back, not knowing one word of English(still learning ), very poor growing up, worked two jobs while going to HS and college but now retired at 50. No country in the world will give a person as much opportunities as this great country to succeed in life.

 

[Which Roger]

Some people face a tough choice between bettering themselves or taking care of a loved one who would otherwise be neglected. Lyrics from Tracy Chapman's "Fast Car":

You see my old man's got a problem
He live with the bottle that's the way it is
He says his body's too old for working
His body's too young to look like his
My mama went off and left him
She wanted more from life than he could give
I said somebody's got to take care of him
So I quit school and that's what I did

I had a family member in the same situation. In that case it was taking care of younger siblings because there was nobody else who could do it. He spent the rest of his life catching up. We need to show more compassion for admirable people like this rather than blaming them for their plight.

 

[razztazz]

unless you have a mental problem, some long term illness or physically handicap no body in the great country should be homeless or poor.

I immigrated to this country in my early adult life with just a shirt on my back, not knowing one word of English(still learning ), very poor growing up, worked two jobs while going to HS and college but now retired at 50. No country in the world will give a person as much opportunities as this great country to succeed in life.

Did it work out for you?

 

[Which Roger]

Another thing to keep in mind is that almost all of us on this forum are at the upper end of the bell curve in terms of being able to navigate the system, preventing things from going awry, and fixing them when they do. Intelligence, education, money, and having a network of people to rely on are crucial for being able to navigate the system. We use these tools to avoid getting ripped off financially, and in the event that we do, we have the skills, financial resources, and contacts (such as friends who are lawyers) to usually set things right. We are very fortunate in this regard, but many others aren't so fortunate and find themselves lost in the system.

 

[foxfirev5]

+1
FWIW, I see this with my own mom, age 90. While sharp as a tack and physically able, she's grown increasingly cranky, stubborn and inflexible as she's aged. So many times I see her flushing money down the toilet on just stupid purchases, attitudes and decisions; she's also a sap for 101 small charities which she sends checks to every week and a very heavy tipper at restaurants.

Fortunately she is extremely well resourced and can buy her way out of such poor decisions but others obviously can't. She'll never live long enough to even put a tiny dent in it but I see it first-hand.

My attitude is that I stay hands-off until she were to go really off the spending rails. It's her money and it makes her happy but again, others don't have that luxury...(or supervision)

I see similar traits with my own DM near 90 years old. We now have all her mail coming to our home and the requests for donations are mind boggling. Fortunately she does realize the situation and has turned all her finances over to me. A mixed blessing for sure. All she wants is a safe 6% return and she'll be happy. Thanks for nothin.

 

[dirtbiker]

unless you have a mental problem, some long term illness or physically handicap no body in the great country should be homeless or poor.

What about those who are simply unintelligent, but not intellectually disabled? Without strong role models showing them the correct way to plan for retirement, most of these people stand very little chance of figuring it out on their own.

I do think that public education needs to do a better job of teaching financial skills, with an emphasis on saving for retirement. I also wouldn't be opposed to the government making 401Ks opt-out programs with a set 15% contribution, rather than an opt-in option for those companies that offer it. I think this would vastly increase the number of people contributing significant amounts to their 401Ks.

 

[Nemo2]

I do think that public education needs to do a better job of teaching financial skills

Teach practical things? That's a tad subversive isn't it?

 

[Retch The Grate]

We leave the site with smiles and laughter, and pray that more laughter fills the house in the future. That's my place in this society.

That was inspirational and my eyes just teared up. I'm not one for faith based anything, but you just gave me something to think about for a post-work activity for sure.

 

[Chuckanut]

Teach practical things? That's a tad subversive isn't it?

Your state’s elected leaders and the Feds dictate what is taught. If you don’t like it, let them know.

As a math teacher I was told to teach the curriculum I was given. And I was judged based upon how well the students tested on that curriculum.

So, again let your state and Federal leaders know what you think. Most kids do not go to college and need pre-calculus. But most will need to understand compound interest and the Rile of 72.

 

[friar1610]

I read these stories and a phrase always comes to mind:
"there but for the grace of God go I"

If I had taken that right turn at critical point in life instead of a left turn, or had I not got a break or just made a poor decision that was not recoverable- I might be living a very different life.

Yes the life you live is decided by the choices you make, but often being fortunate has a greater impact on how things turn out.

+1

And oftentimes the family you are born into is a big part of being fortunate. I don't necessarily mean being born into a wealthy family but one with money sense, regardless of their means. Having a good example set for you at an early age is worth an awful lot.

 

[street]

+1

And oftentimes the family you are born into is a big part of being fortunate. I don't necessarily mean being born into a wealthy family but one with money sense, regardless of their means. Having a good example set for you at an early age is worth an awful lot.

True! My parents taught me the value of a dollar and how to save, even though they had little. It always seemed to me we were well off but that was not the case. We had just what we needed and nothing more but always felt rich some how. LOL

 

[trumpeting_angel]

What about those who are simply unintelligent, but not intellectually disabled? Without strong role models showing them the correct way to plan for retirement, most of these people stand very little chance of figuring it out on their own.

I do think that public education needs to do a better job of teaching financial skills, with an emphasis on saving for retirement. I also wouldn't be opposed to the government making 401Ks opt-out programs with a set 15% contribution, rather than an opt-in option for those companies that offer it. I think this would vastly increase the number of people contributing significant amounts to their 401Ks.

One of my clients, a disabled former retail and factory worker, was married to a guy who worked in the factory. He was in constant pain and hated the work. He drank heavily. He bought whatever his credit card allowed him to. He had inherited a house, but from the sound of it hoarded all sorts of things, rendering much of it too full to use. The basement had flooded several times but the wet stuff never removed.

He retired at 62, started SS, and arranged his small pension for a larger payout today but nothing for her after he dies.

He is ignorant and bull-headed, always advising her through his “wisdom” against the advice of her doctors. He thinks he has a good handle on their finances.

What to do with this couple? She is brighter than him but hopelessly bound to him. As badly as he treats her, it’s familiar (her family was just as awful) and there’s a roof over her head.

As a psychologist one gets a glimpse into lives much different from one’s own. And there are so many of these folks out there, who cover it up, buy lottery tickets, and hope for the best. What was that quote, about “lives of quiet desperation?”

 

[Teacher Terry]

The spouse has to sign off on the pension and she should have refused. He probably bullied her. It’s sad.

 

[travelover]

The spouse has to sign off on the pension and she should have refused. He probably bullied her. It’s sad.

It is probably common - happened with DW's grandfather to grandmother's shock when he died.

 

[targatom2019]

Did it work out for you?

Yes sir, just retired 3 months ago. I am not smart but my first investment bight bulb in my head clicked on 25 years a go when I had to pay $1,300 mortgage and only $85 was deducted out of my loan. I was debt free 5 years later and invested every penny in the equity market and real state.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Travel, years ago people didn’t have to sign off on pensions. I worked in that department in the 70’s and dealt with plenty of hysterical women that had never worked. Now a spouse has to sign off and can refuse.

 

[GravitySucks]

I'm tracking my mother's spending and while it's not much I see where she's financing some of her grand children's lives at a higher rate.

I'm going to keep a closer watch and freeze her credit after BILs experience.
At 91 his mother seemed sharp as a rack. At 91.5 she sent a scam artist $500,000 in 6 weeks. Now that he has control of what little is left he found her trying to borrow $100,000 to finish collecting her sweepstake award.
When it goes it can go fast.

+1
FWIW, I see this with my own mom, age 90. While sharp as a tack and physically able, she's grown increasingly cranky, stubborn and inflexible as she's aged. So many times I see her flushing money down the toilet on just stupid purchases, attitudes and decisions; she's also a sap for 101 small charities which she sends checks to every week and a very heavy tipper at restaurants.

Fortunately she is extremely well resourced and can buy her way out of such poor decisions but others obviously can't. She'll never live long enough to even put a tiny dent in it but I see it first-hand.

My attitude is that I stay hands-off until she were to go really off the spending rails. It's her money and it makes her happy but again, others don't have that luxury...(or supervision)