Nice Cars... is it a vice?

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

0-60 in 2.9 is awesome, and on paper, it beats my Jeep by 1/10th sec. I wonder how many 0-60 and 1/4 mile passes it can make before needing a lengthy recharge? I know my gas mileage drops well into the single digits when I'm pushing it hard like that.

It will be able to do repeated runs (more than anyone would actually want to do) without slowing down. Hell, it will have a 500+ mile range! I have a Performance Model 3 and, while I haven't had it to the track, lots of owners have and they report the over-heating that would cause power to dial back to 60-75% is completely fixed. I can do repeated 0-60 mph runs between 3.0 and 3.1 seconds without any heat soak (thanks to track mode cooling that overdrives the cooling compressor).

Regarding their bullet proofing claim, I recently tested a 7.62x39 against a 1/4" (~6 mm) steel plate. At 10 feet, the very first shot went straight through it which kinda surprised me. I will look for a small plate of 3mm 301 stainless steel and will test it with various 9mm rounds. Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't think you will be able to source what Tesla and SpaceX use. It's proprietary. But you can probably get close using regular 301 (just make sure it's been cold-rolled under extreme pressure). It's the work hardening that makes it resist penetration. However, the military round you tested will likely go right through it, especially if you use one of the metal jacketed rounds or with a steel core. The Cybertruck will only be able to resist common handgun rounds made of 100% lead. Still impressive as these rounds penetrate existing pickup truck cabs without issue.

 

[MRG]

0-60 in 2.9 is awesome, and on paper, it beats my Jeep by 1/10th sec. I wonder how many 0-60 and 1/4 mile passes it can make before needing a lengthy recharge? I know my gas mileage drops well into the single digits when I'm pushing it hard like that. But I can stop and refill in less than 5 mins and I'm good to go again.

Regarding their bullet proofing claim, I recently tested a 7.62x39 against a 1/4" (~6 mm) steel plate. At 10 feet, the very first shot went straight through it which kinda surprised me. I will look for a small plate of 3mm 301 stainless steel and will test it with various 9mm rounds. Inquiring minds want to know.

A 7.62×39 appears to generate about 1600 pounds of energy a 9mm is more like 400.

 

[eytonxav]

A 7.62×39 appears to generate about 1600 pounds of energy a 9mm is more like 400.

I am not sure how important this bullet proof capability is, maybe more so nowadays, but I remember what happened in the reveal video when someone light tossed a ball bearing at the window. Perhaps that failure is resolved in the production models.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

I am not sure how important this bullet proof capability is, maybe more so nowadays, but I remember what happened in the reveal video when someone light tossed a ball bearing at the window. Perhaps that failure is resolved in the production models.

I agree, the bullet proof feature is something I hope I never need to use.

But if I had a choice of two trucks, equal in every respect (including price) except one was bulletproof with bulletproof glass and the other was not bulletproof and only had regular automotive glass, I would want the bulletproof one!

 

[braumeister]

But if I had a choice of two trucks, equal in every respect (including price) except one was bulletproof

FWIW, I have experience with regular vehicles that have been made bulletproof. There are only a few places that do this, and it's quite an operation. The biggest difference is that the process adds an enormous amount of weight to the vehicle, which necessitates even more modifications to handle it, etc., etc.

My experience was 30 years ago, and I'm sure techniques have improved since then, but the point is that that bulletproofing a car is far from a simple mod.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

FWIW, I have experience with regular vehicles that have been made bulletproof. There are only a few places that do this, and it's quite an operation. The biggest difference is that the process adds an enormous amount of weight to the vehicle, which necessitates even more modifications to handle it, etc., etc.

My experience was 30 years ago, and I'm sure techniques have improved since then, but the point is that that bulletproofing a car is far from a simple mod.

In a former life, I got to fly Presidential support missions which included moving the POTUS limos. You want to talk about HEAVY!?!? Holy freakin' cow! The numbers are classified, but the first time I saw it on a weight and balance calculation, I thought that NO WAY it was that heavy. Of course, they are big cars and have a lot of really cool "extras" installed, so that increased the weight, too.

 

[Car-Guy]

A 7.62×39 appears to generate about 1600 pounds of energy a 9mm is more like 400.

I have no doubts about the AK round penetrating a 3mm stainless steel plate. My comment were just an example of what I had recently tested. (See pic) As I said I will test the penetration of various 9mm rounds assuming I can find some 3mm 301 stainless steel plates. Oh, and don't try this at home sports fans unless you really know what you are doing and can do so as safely as possible. Shooting at any steel plates can be extremely dangerous. BTW, the other 3 dents you see were made by the same type of ammo but after going through various layers of sand.

 

[GravitySucks]

Things have gotten weird these last few months but I'm not ready to base a car purchase on bulletproofness!

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Things have gotten weird these last few months but I'm not ready to base a car purchase on bulletproofness!

Ya, you can always wear a flak jacket

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

FWIW, I have experience with regular vehicles that have been made bulletproof. There are only a few places that do this, and it's quite an operation. The biggest difference is that the process adds an enormous amount of weight to the vehicle, which necessitates even more modifications to handle it, etc., etc.

My experience was 30 years ago, and I'm sure techniques have improved since then, but the point is that that bulletproofing a car is far from a simple mod.

The point being, the Cybertruck will not be "bullet proof" per say, it will just be naturally made out of materials that happen to be resistant to penetration. It's not really a marketing differentiator, it's just a fact. There will be no "mods" to make it bullet proof - it will just be naturally bullet resistant.

The real advantage will be it's natural toughness, for example, when taking branches while off-roading or shopping carts in a parking lot (they will bounce right off, no damage). Of course, if you happened to be in a neighborhood where a drive-by shooting was in progress it would be quite a comfort to be in a Cybertruck that would deflect the rounds.

Not an everyday experience for sure, but it's a capability that comes with no real downside. Tesla chose those materials for their structural integrity in the exoskeleton so they could make a lighter truck with superior towing capacity (and hauling capacity). It's a monster of a truck in terms of strength and rigidity for it's weight. It makes traditional trucks look heavy, sluggish and weak/flexible and soft to impact threats. It's very easy to damage the body of existing trucks - it doesn't take much to dent the soft metal, crack the paint and then the orange rust starts if you don't get it repaired. The Cybertruck is much more resistant to abuse and damage.

 

[Dtail]

Things have gotten weird these last few months but I'm not ready to base a car purchase on bulletproofness!

The car can wear a mask too.

 

[MRG]

The point being, the Cybertruck will not be "bullet proof" per say, it will just be naturally made out of materials that happen to be resistant to penetration. It's not really a marketing differentiator, it's just a fact. There will be no "mods" to make it bullet proof - it will just be naturally bullet resistant.

The real advantage will be it's natural toughness, for example, when taking branches while off-roading or shopping carts in a parking lot (they will bounce right off, no damage). Of course, if you happened to be in a neighborhood where a drive-by shooting was in progress it would be quite a comfort to be in a Cybertruck that would deflect the rounds.

Not an everyday experience for sure, but it's a capability that comes with no real downside. Tesla chose those materials for their structural integrity in the exoskeleton so they could make a lighter truck with superior towing capacity (and hauling capacity). It's a monster of a truck in terms of strength and rigidity for it's weight. It makes traditional trucks look heavy, sluggish and weak/flexible and soft to impact threats. It's very easy to damage the body of existing trucks - it doesn't take much to dent the soft metal, crack the paint and then the orange rust starts if you don't get it repaired. The Cybertruck is much more resistant to abuse and damage.

+1

I got rid of my 2014 GMC pickup, the doors were a pitted mess from other people's doors hitting it in parking lots. That truck was purchased post retirement so it wasn't in the smaller garage parking places in downtown KCMO.

 

[GravitySucks]

HEPA N95 cabin filters!

The car can wear a mask too.

 

[GravitySucks]

How about cars as investments?
Between the sales tax and the registration fees I've never profited.
I am kicking myself for not buying a Packard Caribbean in 2015, looks like they've almost doubled in price.
Anyone make out close to even buying and selling the hobby cars?

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

How about cars as investments?

I've lost money on every car I've ever bought/sold once I accounted for expenses and time. The good thing is I don't think of cars as investments in anything other than my personal transportation or (in a couple of cases) recreation. Not to make money.

On the other hand, I did buy 300 shares of Tesla stock (TSLA) in June for $55,000 that is now worth $413,400 in just over a year. So that's a pretty good return! I also bought 200 more shares this March for $72,200 that are now worth $275,600 4 months later!

The funny thing is, I think the best gains are yet to be had over the next 3-5 years.

 

[eytonxav]

Regarding the Tesla trucks SS body and bullet proof glass, one thing that could make this very appealing to those who live in hail prone states, like Texas, would be if the body/windshield will repel large hailstones without damage. I would consider it just for that reason alone.

 

[MRG]

Regarding the Tesla trucks SS body and bullet proof glass, one thing that could make this very appealing to those who live in hail prone states, like Texas, would be if the body/windshield will repel large hailstones without damage. I would consider it just for that reason alone.

I spent 38 years in the KC area, hail is a big selling point. When you see a few dealerships that have been flattened it makes it real.

We were at home one year during one, vehicles were in the garage, in came some hail. The neighbors horses were standing outside in the storm with softball size hail pummeling them.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

I spent 38 years in the KC area, hail is a big selling point. When you see a few dealerships that have been flattened it makes it real.

We were at home one year during one, vehicles were in the garage, in came some hail. The neighbors horses were standing outside in the storm with softball size hail pummeling them.

Hail totaling cars and trucks is a big problem and pushes insurance rates up in hail prone areas. The Cybertruck will likely survive most hailstorms that take out all the other cars around it but I'm sure Mother Nature is capable of delivering a hailstorm that was powerful enough to damage even the tough exterior of a Cybertruck.

When Elon Musk was asked on Twitter whether the Cybertruck would be hail proof, something storm chasers might find valuable, he responded "pretty much":

https://twitter.com/x/status/1264266391252799489

It will also be awesome at fording flood waters. If a Tesla Model X can do this:

then imagine what the Cybertruck with 16" of ground clearance can do! Just put the air suspension in "high" mode.

 

[jw72]

How about the 2021 Ford Bronco, It looks amazing. I am not a Ford person or a 4x4 person but I am now.

 

[Sojourner]

I've lost money on every car I've ever bought/sold once I accounted for expenses and time. The good thing is I don't think of cars as investments in anything other than my personal transportation or (in a couple of cases) recreation. Not to make money.

+1

I'd guess most of us around here buy lightly used cars and drive them until they're (nearly) falling apart, so very few would ever come close to breaking even on car purchases and sales. I'm probably down a good $50k overall on all the cars I've bought and sold (or traded in) over the years. That's fine, since I see it purely as a cost of living that enables me to have extreme flexibility and comfort for my personal transportation.

As to the question posed in the thread title, my opinion is that nice cars aren't a vice.... merely an expensive hobby. The word "vice" implies something immoral, shameful, or bad, so it can only be a vice if you're stealing those nice cars or using them to run over small animals or children.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

+1

I'd guess most of us around here buy lightly used cars and drive them until they're (nearly) falling apart, so very few would ever come close to breaking even on car purchases and sales. I'm probably down a good $50k overall on all the cars I've bought and sold (or traded in) over the years. That's fine, since I see it purely as a cost of living that enables me to have extreme flexibility and comfort for my personal transportation.

As to the question posed in the thread title, my opinion is that nice cars aren't a vice.... merely an expensive hobby. The word "vice" implies something immoral, shameful, or bad, so it can only be a vice if you're stealing those nice cars or using them to run over small animals or children.

That's funny! Running over small animals or children!

But it begs the question, what do you have against large animals and children?

Seriously though, I agree, if you can afford a new car then don't let the words your mother programmed into your brain hold you back! Life is meant to be enjoyed and I must say, our last four new cars we purchased brought lasting enjoyment, especially the most recent two.

Sure, it seems decadent but new cars smell better and simplify your life with fewer repairs and service appointments, especially if they are powered by electricity. Just don't put them before a quality diet! It would be terrible to have a new car but have to live on rice and beans!

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

How about the 2021 Ford Bronco, It looks amazing. I am not a Ford person or a 4x4 person but I am now.

I think it's going to be basically unobtainable, at least for a reasonable price and in reasonable volumes until at least 2024 if not later. Ford doesn't really seem serious about gutting their gasoline engine sales. If their Bronco was any good and had a reasonable price point they couldn't make enough of them to satisfy demand. And yet it would Osborne their ICE sales.

This is a real problem for all manufacturers who depend upon internal combustion engine sales. The next "cool" electric Ford is always "just around the corner". The electric F-150 was revealed over 10 years ago at SEMA 2008 and they have delayed it yet again this year (using Coronavirus as the excuse). Don't let their PR fool you, watch and see. It's not for lack of demand of an electric F-150, it's that it would Osborne their more profitable ICE F-150 sales.

I wouldn't hold out any hope of seeing an electrified Ford Bronco anytime soon. It's just a teaser.

 

[eytonxav]

One of my friends posted that he ordered the new Tesla truck, and it sounded like the wait to delivery is going to pretty long, something like 2 years.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

One of my friends posted that he ordered the new Tesla truck, and it sounded like the wait to delivery is going to pretty long, something like 2 years.

Yes, my wife waited 2 1/3 years from order to delivery of her Model 3. That's the price of getting one of the first ones. But I'm glad she reserved early because people who didn't couldn't get one nearly as quickly.

I have a new Cybertruck on order and I have to temper the excitement because it will be almost two years. But that's pretty short in automotive years because it takes about 6-7 years for the big OEM's to design and deliver a new model. Tesla still has to break ground on their new USA factory (either in Austin, TX or Tulsa, OK) before they can put it into production.

However, I've never been a spontaneous new vehicle purchaser so I'm accustomed to planning and waiting, even why buying existing models I tend to order them from the factory configured exactly how I want it. The advantage to doing it this way is I get the latest production improvements (rather than buying a vehicle that has been sitting out in the weather for 6 months). This means the tires, battery and paint are all fresher with less aging. In the case of the Cybertruck with it's unique styling, it also means I'll be the first person in my area to be driving the most rad truck around.

I think people are going to flip when they see it in person.

 

[Car-Guy]

One of my friends posted that he ordered the new Tesla truck, and it sounded like the wait to delivery is going to pretty long, something like 2 years.

Needs to be charged up..