*Not* taking statins

[youbet]

Are you aware that the United States and New Zealand are the only two countries that permit direct-to-consumer-drug-advertising? Have you noticed the ramp up of Hepatitis C testing over the past decade promoted by pharma companies for their $60K 12 pill cure?

Thanks for helping make my point Freedom56! I agree, seeing a push for a $60k Hep C cure makes sense. But why would they make a big push for $24/year statin drug?

There seems to be pros and cons to taking statins. But saying that they are being pushed because they are so profitable to drug companies isn't passing the common sense test since statins are cheap generics.

 

[youbet]

Perhaps if you translated it to Romanian first, that would help.

https://www.escardio.org/The-ESC/Member-National-Cardiac-Societies/Romanian-Society-of-Cardiology

Well, here's something similar. The Romanian Society of Cardiology. Maybe that's what he meant. Nice site based on just a quick look. Lots to read after doing a search on "statin."

 

[Freedom56]

Thanks for helping make my point Freedom56! I agree, seeing a push for a $60k Hep C cure makes sense. But why would they make a big push for $24/year statin drug?

There seems to be pros and cons to taking statins. But saying that they are being pushed because they are so profitable to drug companies isn't passing the common sense test since statins are cheap generics.

Statin commercials have ceased since the generic statins came into the market. However, the multi-decade push by the pharma industry had created momentum in the medical community. Doctors have all but given up on treating the root cause of high cholesterol, heart problems, joint problems, and diabetes which all can be traced to obesity and lack of exercise. Instead they are prescribing drugs to treat the side effects of obesity. So when a patient has high cholesterol levels the automatic response is to prescribe statins.

 

[youbet]

Statin commercials have ceased since the generic statins came into the market. However, the multi-decade push by the pharma industry had created momentum in the medical community. Doctors have all but given up on treating the root cause of high cholesterol, heart problems, joint problems, and diabetes which all can be traced to obesity and lack of exercise. Instead they are prescribing drugs to treat the side effects of obesity. So when a patient has high cholesterol levels the automatic response is to prescribe statins.

Why are people, including some comments here, saying that one of the reasons docs are prescribing statins today is because the drug companies are getting rich selling them. I just don't see that......

Also, YOUR doc may have "given up on treating the root cause of high cholesterol, heart problems, joint problems, and diabetes which all can be traced to obesity and lack of exercise," but mine hasn't. You need to take some responsibility, get up out of your chair and find a doc who follows the path you wish to follow. My doc is a DO, is very focused on my overall physical well being and a tenacious pusher of healthy life styles. They're out there. If you don't have one, look in the mirror.

 

[OldShooter]

... Why would pharmaceutical companies push drugs that are cheap and generic? ...

Related question: Why are conspiracy theories so popular?

 

[Buckeye]

DH (71) had the calcium score scan done Tuesday. Still waiting for the results. He made an appointment for his annual Medicare Wellness Exam (free) and got the script. The scan was $100 at OrlandoHealth. I thought that was a great deal.

DH has high LDL, HDL of 60, total cholesterol of 260, normal triglycerides, normal weight, normal glucose, normal BP without meds, has never smoked and has no history of cardio events. He does not want to take a statin. The calcium score seemed to be the way to look under the hood without doing an invasive procedure.

DH's total cholesterol is actually 239, not 260. Trig. 107

 

[Buckeye]

DH's total cholesterol is actually 239, not 260. Trig. 107

Calcium score paperwork came in the mail today. DH's score is 3! A score of 3 in the LAD and nothing else. This is great news!

DH said "See, no reason to bug me about my diet!" I said, "See, all the 'input' about your diet paid off!"

I have attached the report with personal info taken out.

 

[Archman]

If you can't take statins, or need to supplement statins, consider taking NEXLETOL (bempedoic acid) or NEXLIZET (bempedoic acid and ezetimibe) manufactured by Esperion Therapeutics. https://www.esperion.com

They talked about bempedoic acid in the Attia podcast, but I'd never heard of it before. This is a newly approved (2020) drug, no generic available, and it's $350 for 30 (in the US), according to GoodRx. Doesn't appear on "Canadian" drug seller web sites. Not sure how to see the price of it in the EU, Australia, India, etc, but I'm sure it's cheaper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bempedoic_acid

The NEXLETOL & NEXLIZET Co-Pay Card Program can help your eligible patients pay as little as $10 per fill for up to a 3-month supply of their prescription.* Your patients can assess their eligibility and enroll for a Co-Pay Card online at NexCopay.com. They can also call 1-855-699-8814 (8:00AM-8:00PM ET, Monday-Friday, excluding holidays) for questions or to enroll.

 

[Chuckanut]

Thanks for helping make my point Freedom56! I agree, seeing a push for a $60k Hep C cure makes sense. But why would they make a big push for $24/year statin drug?

There seems to be pros and cons to taking statins. But saying that they are being pushed because they are so profitable to drug companies isn't passing the common sense test since statins are cheap generics.

Having basically healthy people take a drug daily for the rest of their lives sounds like a very nice consistent source of income to me.

 

[Freedom56]

Why are people, including some comments here, saying that one of the reasons docs are prescribing statins today is because the drug companies are getting rich selling them. I just don't see that......

Also, YOUR doc may have "given up on treating the root cause of high cholesterol, heart problems, joint problems, and diabetes which all can be traced to obesity and lack of exercise," but mine hasn't. You need to take some responsibility, get up out of your chair and find a doc who follows the path you wish to follow. My doc is a DO, is very focused on my overall physical well being and a tenacious pusher of healthy life styles. They're out there. If you don't have one, look in the mirror.

Drugs where there are generic alternatives are no longer the big money makers. However, the margins are still pretty good even for statins where it costs fractions of a penny for each pill to produce.

As for my doctor, he has consistently been voted by his peers as one of the best doctors in America. He has been on national TV several times for his free medical clinics for the uninsured. I have been seeing him for over 20 years and he is a great doctor for sports medicine. He has kept me on a healthy track for decades. The sad reality is that 85% of men over 24 years old don't see a doctor on a regular basis. Many see a doctor when they have serious health issues. I can confirm this as I worked with many that had this attitude and they became religious about visiting doctors after they recovered from a serious health crisis. I know a few close friends who's first visit to the doctor in over 30 years was in an ambulance after suffering a stroke or heart attack. So what can a doctor do for these people that don't take personal responsibility for their health and avoid doctors?

 

[hanginthere]

I'm a pharmacist and I've seen too many folks have to discontinue them because of the side effects. Some of the milder one like Pravachol are ok, but most MD's want to put you on Crestor or Lipitor which are far worse for side effects. For milder hypercholesterolemia, there are some natural products that are helpful. Mine is a little high and no I don't do them.

 

[youbet]

As for my doctor, he has consistently been voted by his peers as one of the best doctors in America.

It’s strange that you would belittle him in your earlier post.

 

[hanginthere]

Statins do seem to have some benefit for post MI patients, but I have a friend who had a heart attack and had to get off of them because of the severe rabdo. Sometimes you have to choose between the MI risk or being able to walk.

 

[6miths]

My mother and my brothers never got chicken pox. My brothers and my mother all tested negative for the VZV. The shingles vaccine is only for those who had chickenpox in the past. In rare cases the the shingles vaccine can cause a rash and even shingles. My rationale is why take a vaccine for something that I never had?

There is a long thread on varicella vaccines but whether you have been exposed to VZV or not, the recommendation is to vaccinate. If one has truly never had it the recommendation is to get the full schedule vaccination asap, especially in high risk populations. Again, if you grew up in the US it is unlikely that you have not been exposed but either way, antibody testing is not recommended. Just because one tests negative for antibodies does not mean that one has not been exposed. Primary VZV can be very serious or fatal at any any age. If one has been exposed then a different formulation of the vaccine is recommended to prevent or reduce the severity of shingles.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/varicella/public/index.html

 

[youbet]

Having basically healthy people take a drug daily for the rest of their lives sounds like a very nice consistent source of income to me.

Income to whom? I can’t get my head around the concept that my GP is somehow “on the take” because I’m taking $24/year of Atorvastatin (generic for Lipitor). Perhaps I don’t need it. Perhaps there are negative side-effects I’m unaware of. Or whatever.......... But $$$ to the individual docs being the motivator to prescribe doesn’t seem likely.

Now, the $5k+ of Xarelto I take annually because of AFIB does make me wonder about my cardiologist (and the many thousands of other cardiologists who prescribe blood thinners to lower stroke risk for AFIB patients.)

 

[Freedom56]

It’s strange that you would belittle him in your earlier post.

In my earlier post I stated:

"Doctors have all but given up on treating the root cause of high cholesterol, heart problems, joint problems, and diabetes which all can be traced to obesity and lack of exercise. Instead they are prescribing drugs to treat the side effects of obesity. So when a patient has high cholesterol levels the automatic response is to prescribe statins."

This was not a reference to my doctor but doctors in general. If my statement was incorrect, why do we have so many overweight people in this country? Overweight and obesity is being normalized which is extremely dangerous. Take a look back at photos of people from the 60's and 70's. Do they even resemble people today? Medical professionals in general have all but given up treating this epidemic and this is a fact. My wife and I are both active and in very good shape and we both have doctors that specialize in sports medicine and are happy with our doctors.

 

[travelover]

......... Take a look back at photos of people from the 60's and 70's. Do they even resemble people today? ......

Good point.

 

[USGrant1962]

Interesting new study finds a high "nocebo effect" with statins. Nocebo is when you report the side effects yet are on the placebo in a study.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/202...ll-in-your-head-study-suggests/5121605832204/

 

[youbet]

In my earlier post I stated:

"Doctors have all but given up on treating the root cause of high cholesterol, heart problems, joint problems, and diabetes which all can be traced to obesity and lack of exercise. Instead they are prescribing drugs to treat the side effects of obesity. So when a patient has high cholesterol levels the automatic response is to prescribe statins."

This was not a reference to my doctor but doctors in general. If my statement was incorrect, why do we have so many overweight people in this country? Overweight and obesity is being normalized which is extremely dangerous. Take a look back at photos of people from the 60's and 70's. Do they even resemble people today? Medical professionals in general have all but given up treating this epidemic and this is a fact. My wife and I are both active and in very good shape and we both have doctors that specialize in sports medicine and are happy with our doctors.

It’s a shame your doc, as you point out that docs in general do, prescribes statins in lieu of working with patients to improve their overall health and fitness.

Perhaps you paint with too broad a brush?

 

[razztazz]

"A psychosomatic illness is a disease that mostly just afflicts doctors."

Told to me by an old country doctor when I told him I didn't want to seem like a hypochondriac or anything. If he insists it's all in your head, it's all in his head. That's when all the statin intrigue I was experiencing with my regular doctor started to come together.


Nobody cares about side affects anyway. They usually go away with use. It's adverse reactions that are at the heart of any discussion of statins. Well, that and NNT. Side effects are not adverse reactions.

 

[kitesurfer2]

so...i read through 5 of the 8 pages of responses. at 67 now, my dr told me in my 30's that i would die of a massive heart attack! he also said i would have next to perfect health until the day that i drop dead, but if i did not, that i would most probably die with prostate cancer, if not because of it. at that time, i was running over 50 miles a week with normal daily runs of 4.5, 12 to 15 miles long run on the weekend. my total chol was 207 this past may. i can no longer run at all, but i do walk daily 3 miles before i do anything else. walking is all that is left of my active lifestyle. only now have i started to discuss arthritis with my dr, as my cartaledge is gone in my thumb.

 

[braumeister]

Overweight and obesity is being normalized which is extremely dangerous. Take a look back at photos of people from the 60's and 70's. Do they even resemble people today?

I don't disagree, but I think these things tend to go in cycles. At one time extreme corpulence was considered healthy and a sign of prosperity.

But even today it's being learned that once you get to your 70s, being slightly overweight and having higher cholesterol are protective and tend to lead to a longer lifespan.

 

[Nemo2]

i can no longer run at all, but i do walk daily 3 miles before i do anything else. walking is all that is left of my active lifestyle

DW reminded me this a.m. that only 5 years ago age 73, I'd often during the summer get up at 04:00 a.m. walk over to the outside stairs and do a couple/few thousand risers before breakfast.

I still use the elliptical, and perhaps, following hip replacement, I can add to that.

I know that old age is (sometimes) better than the alternative, but, given my druthers....

Looking out at the road rushing under my wheels
Looking back at the years gone by like so many summer fields
In sixty-five I was seventeen and running up one-on-one
I don't know where I'm running now, I'm just running on
Running on (running on empty)
Running on (running blind)
Running on (running into the sun)
But I'm running behind

Jackson Browne.

 

[donheff]

I don't disagree, but I think these things tend to go in cycles. At one time extreme corpulence was considered healthy and a sign of prosperity.

But even today it's being learned that once you get to your 70s, being slightly overweight and having higher cholesterol are protective and tend to lead to a longer lifespan.

Are those studies of the protective effect of excess weight in the elderly adequately corrected to remove the old folks who lose weight due to illness? What matters is whether keeping weight down thru diet and lifestyle confers a benefit, not whether it is better to be overweight than to have a wasting illness.

 

[sengsational]

The NEXLETOL & NEXLIZET Co-Pay Card Program can help your eligible patients pay as little as $10 per fill for up to a 3-month supply of their prescription.* Your patients can assess their eligibility .

Pretty much all of the expensive new drugs have these programs, and pretty much nobody qualifies. These programs are set up so the sellers have something "good" to say when someone notices they are price gouging.

This drug will almost certainly cost people who read this forum more than $4,000 per year, either directly (thinking HDHI) or indirectly (through higher premiums). In fact, all of us who pay HI premiums are paying for drugs like this through HI premiums.