At Odds With Spouse/Covid Social Distancing

[skyking1]

I am grooving on the no colds thing, these masks and enhanced hygiene have other benefits.

 

[Dtail]

We will be eating indoors with 2 other couples this coming Saturday. We are vaccinated and one other couple is too. We won't be wearing masks at the table during conversation.

 

[big-papa]

For us, before vaccinations:
Curbside pickup at grocery
Curbside pickup a handful of times at restaurants
Probably a grand total of 3 visits to restaurants where we ate outside
One visit from friends out on our deck
Working 100% from home
Masks everywhere

After vaccinations:
All close friends are now vaccinated as are their kids. So get-togethers now at each others' homes has restarted
Work mornings in the office then at home in the afternoons
Visiting businesses more frequently but still always with a mask
More frequent restaurant visits (wow, prices really went up!). Masks for entry/exit to restaurant, but not at the table.

 

[Helen]

The daughter of our 99 year old friend called to see if we wanted to pay a visit to her father. All 4 of us have been vaxed. We went to his assisted living home and the four of us sat in his room talking unmasked.

At this point I feel the vaccine works and I'm ready to get back to normal unmasked behavior unless I'm around someone immunocompromised.

 

[audreyh1]

Well the OP hasn’t been back to either clarify nor respond to people’s advice or questions, so I don’t know why we keep answering.

 

[Aerides]

Well the OP hasn’t been back to either clarify nor respond to people’s advice or questions, so I don’t know why we keep answering.

Since when has that ever stopped anyone here

 

[ivinsfan]

Well the OP hasn’t been back to either clarify nor respond to people’s advice or questions, so I don’t know why we keep answering.

We have another thread going like that from earlier in the week, one post from the OP and six pages of us all talking to each other.

 

[Gumby]

We have another thread going like that from earlier in the week, one post from the OP and six pages of us all talking to each other. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Generally perceived as better than talking to ourselves.

 

[pacergal]

Talking to yourself is better than also answering your own questions!

 

[RunningBum]

Talking to yourself is better than also answering your own questions!

Or arguing with one's self!

 

[Sojourner]

There are other variants (I can't remember at the moment..maybe the Brazil one) that the current vaccines only protect ~50% against (if that).
...
And with the Brazil (IIRC) one..it's only about 50/50 at best.

Do you have a reference for that? Not saying you're wrong, but I haven't heard of any variant where the mRNA vaccines (after two shots, full protection) were only ~ 50% effective against symptomatic infection. I believe this would be pretty big news, and Dr. Osterholm would have mentioned it on his podcast, which I listen to regularly.

 

[Aerides]

Do you have a reference for that? Not saying you're wrong, but I haven't heard of any variant where the mRNA vaccines (after two shots, full protection) were only ~ 50% effective against symptomatic infection. I believe this would be pretty big news, and Dr. Osterholm would have mentioned it on his podcast, which I listen to regularly.

I've seen the 50% is floated in the discussions of those who have only had a single dose of Pfizer/Moderna. Full vaccination, two doses, brings the effectiveness up to 88% vs. 95% for the older ones:

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...ta-variant-of-covid-is-on-the-rise-in-the-u-s

 

[tmm99]

This is my fav article of late. Some people say "it's only effective around 50%", but we really need to know what happens to the other 50% of the people who get infected. Are they all going to be hospitalized? Are 90% of the 50% asymptomatic? The key, in my opinion, is to know how many people end up with severe symptoms, because being asymptomatic or being mildly sick (as in common colds) are considered infected and "not protected," but those symptoms (or absence of symptoms) do not disrupt our daily lives much.

This article shows the efficacy of Pfizer after 2 doses (2 weeks in+). It only shows the results for the original strain, UK and S. Africa, but with two doses, the efficacy against getting severely sick (sever/critical/fatal) with newer variants is 100%/97% (with 95% CI). (Look at the table in the middle of the article.) The efficacy against getting a severe/critical/fatal illness once you catch the UK or S. Africa variant with just one dose of Pfizer, however, is shockingly low (0% against the S. Africa variant, 39% against the UK variant).


https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2104974

 

[audreyh1]

Pfizer is 88% effective against the Delta (Indian) variant if you are fully vaccinated. That’s for symptomatic illness.

 

[braumeister]

FWIW, the vax rate in the area where I live is around 40% (of everyone). That's not great, but certainly good. And the health department says that the ONLY people being hospitalized for it are the unvaccinated. That says quite a lot IMHO.

 

[donheff]

I just attended a wedding in Chicago for a newly minted doctor, which was attended by quite a few of his doc peers. All invitees were vaccinated and no one wore masks (except facility staff who were required to by their employer). The crowd were partying like 1999. I'm sure a lot of these long cooped up kids were immensely gratified to finally be able to bust loose a bit. DW and I felt completely at ease and danced with the crowds. The reality for now is that the unvaccinated remain at risk and the vaccinated are safe (for all practical purposes). We are also back to having dinner parties at home and going to restaurants. Travel is still a PITA - no fun getting to the wedding.

 

[24601NoMore]

The reality for now is that the unvaccinated remain at risk and the vaccinated are safe (for all practical purposes)

I think it's important we don't overstate things. The vaccinated are "mostly" safe but I continue to read stories almost daily about people who are vaccinated and either hospitalized and/or deceased from COVID. (ETA - here's one from just the other day..https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/06/07/fully-vaccinated-napa-woman-dies-covid/)

The reality is that the vaccines do not provide 100% protection even against the original strain (more like 90-95%) - and even less (~20+% less, or even more) against the variants.

I realize everyone wants to "party like it's 1999" after being cooped up for over a year, but if we're going to get through this thing and put it behind us once and for all, it'd be good for everyone to realize that this pandemic is FAR from over. Vaccinated or not - you can still catch COVID, although the odds are certainly MUCH lower (albeit, not zero or even close to zero) if you are vaccinated. And you can die from it if you do. (I probably read at least one or two stories a day of this happening, which the Anti-Vaccine crowd jumps on to say "see? Those 'poisonous' vaccines don't actually protect you at all!" It actually gets kinda tiring after a while..) That's why I personally still wear a KN95 everytime I'm inside a business. And why I still don't go to restaurants, get on an airplane or go to a large gathering. And won't do any of those things until we TRULY put this pandemic behind us.

 

[ivinsfan]

What kind of world are we living in where anybody remotely sane expects 100% from a vaccine?


90-95% is a resounding success in anyone's book....the odds aren't zero that you won't get killed in a car accident either, but I don't see people refusing to use cars.

 

[stephenson]

24601,

While it would be great, you may be a bit unrealistic wrt C-19.

 

[Dtail]

I think it's important we don't overstate things. The vaccinated are "mostly" safe but I continue to read stories almost daily about people who are vaccinated and either hospitalized and/or deceased from COVID. (ETA - here's one from just the other day..https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/06/07/fully-vaccinated-napa-woman-dies-covid/)

The reality is that the vaccines do not provide 100% protection even against the original strain (more like 90-95%) - and even less (~20+% less, or even more) against the variants.

I realize everyone wants to "party like it's 1999" after being cooped up for over a year, but if we're going to get through this thing and put it behind us once and for all, it'd be good for everyone to realize that this pandemic is FAR from over. Vaccinated or not - you can still catch COVID, although the odds are certainly MUCH lower (albeit, not zero or even close to zero) if you are vaccinated. And you can die from it if you do. (I probably read at least one or two stories a day of this happening, which the Anti-Vaccine crowd jumps on to say "see? Those 'poisonous' vaccines don't actually protect you at all!" It actually gets kinda tiring after a while..) That's why I personally still wear a KN95 everytime I'm inside a business. And why I still don't go to restaurants, get on an airplane or go to a large gathering. And won't do any of those things until we TRULY put this pandemic behind us.

So what is your definition of when the pandemic is TRULY behind us?

 

[24601NoMore]

What kind of world are we living in where anybody remotely sane expects 100% from a vaccine?


90-95% is a resounding success in anyone's book....the odds aren't zero that you won't get killed in a car accident either, but I don't see people refusing to use cars.

I think you're missing my point, and I certainly never expected a 100% vaccine. I actually think the 90-95% vaccine efficacy is pretty darn amazing.

That said..the odds of contracting a variant of COVID, even for those fully vaccinated is still >= 12%. Some of those people are still dying. As are those in "breakthrough" cases.

There's "minimum" or "near zero" (odds), and then there's ONE IN EIGHT odds of catching COVID even if you're vaccinated but are exposed to someone with something like the "Delta" (India) variant - which could become severe up to the point of death. And since roughly 30-40% of the country refuses to get vaccinated..there's a lot of potentially infectious people out there. Then, add in the kids - most ALL who are not vaccinated. That's a pretty big potential pool of infectious people that any of us can come into contact with.

One in eight odds of catching COVID even IF you are vaccinated and exposed to something like Delta is what I'd call pretty darn significant. And the more people that wander around without masks or social distancing, "partying like it's 1999" (as was said earlier), the more we're gonna prolong this thing. Because it's (like all global pandemics) gonna continue to spread and mutate.

Not trying to be the voice of doom or anything here, but I'm pretty surprised at the "it's over, it's ALL. OVER!!!!" reactions out there (although I certainly understand the desire for that to be the case)..because it is, as I said earlier, FAR from over. And unless we can continue to pitch in and try to beat this back..we're going to be dealing with it for a long, long time.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think you're missing my point, and I certainly never expected a 100% vaccine. I actually think the 90-95% vaccine efficacy is pretty darn amazing.

That said..the odds of contracting a variant of COVID, even for those fully vaccinated is still >= 12%. Some of those people are still dying. As are those in "breakthrough" cases.

There's "near zero" (odds), and then there's ONE IN EIGHT odds of catching COVID if you're exposed to someone with it - which could become severe up to the point of death. And since roughly 30-40% of the country refuses to get vaccinated..there's a lot of potentially infectious people out there. Then, add in the kids - most ALL who are not vaccinated. That's a pretty big potential pool of infectious people that any of us can come into contact with.

One in eight odds is what I'd call pretty darn significant. And the more people that wander around without masks or social distancing, "partying like it's 1999" (as was said earlier), the more we're gonna prolong this thing. Because it's (like all global pandemics) gonna continue to spread and mutate.

Not trying to be the voice of doom or anything here, but I'm pretty surprised at the "it's over, it's ALL. OVER!!!!" reactions out there..because it is, as I said earlier, FAR from over. And unless we can continue to pitch in and try to beat this back..we're going to be dealing with it for a long, long time.

No you are missing my point but never mind...I never actually saw anybody here screaming it all over..I'm moving on now.

 

[stephenson]

12% even after being vaccinated?

Really?

 

[24601NoMore]

12% even after being vaccinated?

Really?

Yes, really. That's the efficacy (~88%) of Pfizer (and I believe Moderna is similar) against the Delta variant, that's ravaged India and the UK and is already in the US.

I don't remember which other variant is even less than that..P.1 maybe? But there are indeed variants that the vaccines protect even less than 88% against..

 

[teetee]

12% even after being vaccinated?



Really?

Not surprised. Vaccines make your body to remember the virus signature.

You will still get infected if you get in contact with a variant that doesn't get recognized if the signature doesn't match.

Even with the original strain, there is a slight chance some viruses get to replicate themselves in your body of they don't get killed in time, and a few will still get out of your body to infect others. But the transmission will be a lot less than those who are not immune.

I prefer to mask up and keep distance indoors. As long as I am not in/near a crowd outdoors, I tend to think the chance for me to get in contact with covid virus is slim to none.

Vaccines won't creat a force field around you to block the virus from enter into your body, if that is what you are thinking. If that is the case, then people can comfortably say they will not be infected after getting jabbed so no longer need to observe the pandemic guidelines.