Need advice for son re: air force

[stephenson]

I wanted to join to be a fighter pilot because it's sexy and I was stupid.
I was refused as I wore glasses... Lucky for me as there are no civilian jobs as a fighter pilot.

But there are shortages of airline and transport pilots (many of which are former military pilots of all types of aircraft) - most in the majors make LOTS of money after the first couple of years - way more stable than it used to be.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

There is a lot of good info here, so I don't have too much to add. As a qualifier, I joined the AF in 1993 as a HS drop out. It was just happenstance that I was able to join as a dropout...long story. Nonetheless, I intended to do 4 years and punch out...but...

22 years later (end of 2014) I retired with a great pension, excellent and reasonably priced healthcare (through Tricare but could use the VA "for free" if I wish). I also came away with 3 AAS degrees, a BS degree and an MA degree. I didn't use my GI Bill until after I retired. With that, I went to law school and didn't pay a red cent...as a matter of fact, with the tax free housing stipend, I was PAID about $20K to go to law school. The education benefit alone in monetary terms FAR exceeds $100,000.

It was a 22 year career that I wouldn't trade for the world. If I had to do it again, I would do it in a HEART BEAT. Was it all roses? Of course not...is anything? I got to do some very cool things that most people only read about or see in the movies. I have travelled the world...I am not sure how many countries I have been too, it would take a long time to figure it out. I was paid a very fair wage...all in all, it was a solid 8 out of 10.

That said, it IS the military. The days of the Air Force not deploying and only staying in 5 star hotels has been over for a long time. I know pilots who were deployed and were subsequently used as convoy commanders in the middle east...part of the "joint operations" that are so pervasive these days. So, take any thoughts you have of not being in a theater that is deadly and throw those out the window. While I felt that what I was doing was relatively safe, there were two occasions that I knew (and should have) died but lucked out. One was mission related, the other was weather related. So, the risk is there...and it can be significant.

I can also say that all the vets that I know went on doing pretty good things some are making some ridiculous money. The guys/gals that did 20 years all said they would do it again and a LOT of folks I know that did less than 20 wish they stuck around. Nice thing (sort of) is the days of 20 years or nothing (retirement) are also over. I don't know a lot of the specifics of the new retirement system, but I do know that you can "retire" with pretty good benefits without doing a full 20 years.

Last thing here. Recruiters aren't "paid to lie", yes they will re-direct you and will make things rosier than what you might expect. I didn't get to see what basic training would be like because "the VCR is broken". BUT...they go through the best training in the world on being salespeople and they are VERY good at what they do. So, as others mentioned, do your absolute best getting a guaranteed job; not just "open" (which can be wide and varied such as "Open-Aviation-Mechanical"). Recruiters do have a quota and it is easier to fill by plugging these "general" jobs, but stick to your guns and seek out a guaranteed job. There are also opportunities to cross train into another career field at different points in career. Some of these opportunities can come with very lucrative re-enlistment bonuses. There is also the option of moving over the guard/reserves which is what many pilots do. About mid way through my career, I was offered a full-time pilot position in a reserve unit I was attached to (I was an active duty liaison) but didn't see myself doing it for so many more years. BUT...the opportunity was available to me. Remember, I joined as a high school dropout.

Whew...OK, I think that's enough of my .10 opinion.

I differ with Dash Man: Aircraft mechanics in the private sector do not earn much. Don't choose that career path.

That is WAY over generalized and simply not accurate. I have lots of vet buddies that did 10 years (or less) and got very good jobs in the aviation maintenance field.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I was married to a aviation mechanic that was trained in the military and was also a career counselor and it pays well as of 9 years ago when I retired.

 

[38Chevy454]

I am not a military vet, but my work career I spent a lot of time with military people. Almost all officer level, O-3 and O-4 mostly, but also from O-1 to O-6 and even Generals on occasion. My advice would be that life is a lot better in officer ranks based on my observations. Doesn't mean you can't have a great career and training to become high level enlisted E-7 to E-9. Just consider that if your son enters and can get a college degree to become officer level it will be improvement in pay and work conditions.


Your son will travel the world, or have opportunity to do so. Also will be able to have almost any training he qualifies for and AF has a need in that area. The retirement pension and benefits are hard to beat. Just remember that once you are in the military, it is not like civilian life. Does not mean it is bad, it is just different. A lot more chain of command and rules. Add in bureaucracy and administrative BS, after all it is gov't.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

I wanted to fly planes, and tried to go into the Air Force. The recruiter said they had already met their quota for navigators (my vision was less than 20/20), and he tried to sell me on OTS and some other career path. I promptly gave him the finger and talked to the Navy about their flight officer program. No regrets.

Point here is that you are allowed to talk to other recruiters. Even other recruiters within the same service.

 

[natetheb]

2. The [...] The USAF also has a large Civil Engineer (CE) career field as well...these are the HVAC techs, carpenters, masons, etc. who deploy to garden spots to build/repair infrastructure needed to conduct the USAF mission. If he enjoys his current work, he can probably get into CE, but doesn't need to.

This! CE is awesome! Almost all career paths within CE is nearly 100% transferable to the civilian world. Also, the comradery can be awesome within a good CE Squadron.

who deploy to garden spots to build/repair infrastructure needed to conduct the USAF mission. If he enjoys his current work, he can probably get into CE, but doesn't need to.

This is not fully correct. I am in the National Guard, and my squadron regularly deployed to Afghanistan and I got back from an Iraq deployment last year. For the last 15 years or so the only places we have deployed to was the middle east, so not exactly a "garden spot."

 

[schenbew]

This! CE is awesome! Almost all career paths within CE is nearly 100% transferable to the civilian world. Also, the comradery can be awesome within a good CE Squadron.

This is not fully correct. I am in the National Guard, and my squadron regularly deployed to Afghanistan and I got back from an Iraq deployment last year. For the last 15 years or so the only places we have deployed to was the middle east, so not exactly a "garden spot."

My use of the term "garden spot" was intended to capture this exact thought...I might need to sharpen my sense of sarcasm and make it more obvious....

 

[Midpack]

Air Force vet here. My primary advice is similar to what Gumby said...have your son review the available career fields and pick a few that look interesting, but also that easily translate to the civilian world. Skills like air traffic control, computer programming, etc. are relatively easy to convert into well-paying jobs when he gets out of the Air Force. Once he's got some fields narrowed down, he needs to make sure he's going in with a guaranteed career field of his choice--don't let the recruiter talk him into going in "open general" and hoping he doesn't end up slinging eggs at the chow hall.

I’d think he should think seriously about where he wants his career to go? Joining up with no idea what you want to do might work out, but it could be a waste of some prime career building years without some plan. I’m was not in the service, but grew up in a military family as my Dad was career Army Medical. It was a great life then at least, I got to see the world growing up! Best of luck.

 

[friar1610]

My use of the term "garden spot" was intended to capture this exact thought...I might need to sharpen my sense of sarcasm and make it more obvious....

I’m retired Navy and even I could feel the sarcasm in the use of the term!.

ETA: I think the advice being offered in this thread is spot-on. BZ (well done) to those who provided the young man such great counsel.

 

[stephenson]

Hmmm - wanted to give this some more thought.

I know your son is aware that he is well along in years, but hasn't locked down a clear direction, yet. He is probably also aware most of his cohort, assuming he joins the USAF will be substantially younger than him - meaning they will be half-retired by the time they get to be his age.

So, given this, perhaps enlisting in the Air Force is the wrong thing to do. If he has two years of college, why not complete the remainder (don't forget things like CLEP tests).

Another thought - combining enlisting and wanting to go to college at the same time is sort of the hardest way to do both. Is there a lack of funding related to completing college?

Finally, if he really wants to serve in the military, my final answer? Finish two years of college, then compete for an officer program.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I am not a military vet, but my work career I spent a lot of time with military people. Almost all officer level, O-3 and O-4 mostly, but also from O-1 to O-6 and even Generals on occasion. My advice would be that life is a lot better in officer ranks based on my observations. Doesn't mean you can't have a great career and training to become high level enlisted E-7 to E-9. Just consider that if your son enters and can get a college degree to become officer level it will be improvement in pay and work conditions.


Your son will travel the world, or have opportunity to do so. Also will be able to have almost any training he qualifies for and AF has a need in that area. The retirement pension and benefits are hard to beat. Just remember that once you are in the military, it is not like civilian life. Does not mean it is bad, it is just different. A lot more chain of command and rules. Add in bureaucracy and administrative BS, after all it is gov't.

Again, this is a very generalized statement . I can assure you there were/are a LOT of enlisted folks that have jobs that have FAR better working conditions than a lot of officers. The officer's pay might be better, but most folks in the military (enlisted and officer) don't do it for the money. My opinion is much stronger than I have written here but I don't want to detract from the OP's thread.

Also, the "travel the world" is also a misnomer. I know a lot of vets who never left the US and a couple that were stationed in only one place over 15 years.

 

[friar1610]

Hmmm - wanted to give this some more thought.

I know your son is aware that he is well along in years, but hasn't locked down a clear direction, yet. He is probably also aware most of his cohort, assuming he joins the USAF will be substantially younger than him - meaning they will be half-retired by the time they get to be his age.

So, given this, perhaps enlisting in the Air Force is the wrong thing to do. If he has two years of college, why not complete the remainder (don't forget things like CLEP tests).

Another thought - combining enlisting and wanting to go to college at the same time is sort of the hardest way to do both. Is there a lack of funding related to completing college?

Finally, if he really wants to serve in the military, my final answer? Finish two years of college, then compete for an officer program.

I ran across a number of people who enlisted “late in life” (relative to the typical recent HS grad). Although there were exceptions, my experience was:
- they were more mature
- they took things more seriously and therefore tended to be better performers
- they were often assigned more critical/responsible jobs
- because of the above they got promoted at a good rate

I also saw guys who, being older, thought they knew it all and underperformed or were more lax about about rules, procedures, etc. They tended to underperform.

More older recruits fell in the first group than the second. Just one guy’s observations.

 

[stephenson]

friar,

Absolutely. My comments were more related to timing, and a preference to use the two years of college - while balancing against lifetime earnings, stability, flow, etc.

If this was my son, I would assist in college restart, including lots of discussion and focus on desired type of work following. I am assuming the young man is not a hard core science, math, engineerng, etc, type otherwise he would have moved into HVAC, plumbing, electrical or electronics repair work by now.

Again, if my son, I would be very clear about the realities - where he is, how he got there, what decision points were evaluated accurately previously, which decision points are in the near future - ya know, the whole flow it out approach.

 

[rrs26ja]

I am an Air Force vet and was an Aircraft Mechanic. You cannot transition to an Aircraft Mechanic on the outside without a license. In the Air Force you specialize in a certain part like fuel systems, hydraulics, Crew chief, electronics, etc. I would recommend he look into something like computer programming, medical tech, air traffic controller. If I had it to do again, I would go to college first, get a four year degree, go in as an officer, and make a career out of it. He would get a pension for life, free medical for life after 20 years of service.

 

[2k6_TX_Dad]

Many good points made.

Army Vet here, specific goal for joining was for maturity and money to return to college. Drove a truck for a "short" three year enlistment, got the GI Bill and the Army College fund. (Not sure of the available programs now, this was over 30 years ago)

One thing I didn't see here, that I was happy I knew about during enlistment, was an option for "Station of Choice". I think most use it to stay near friends and family. I used it to see somewhere new. I chose Germany and had a great time over there (except for the 6mo. in the Persian Gulf during the 1st Gulf War) and came back from Germany with a wife. (Together 31+ years now).

 

[gooddog]

The Air Force physical fitness standards are not as high as other branches. If he can do 40 pushups, 40 situps, and run 2 miles in 16 minutes - he will be fine.


The career field to go into in the AF is air traffic control. Can make a 20 year career out of it, or leave the AF and go work for the fed. Current top out for ATC is about 140k/year with the fed. The AF does give some decent bonus $ for that field. The four years in the AF would count towards federal retirement, and ATC's are in the 'safety retirement' system with a mandated retirement age of 54 (last time I checked). The ATC field has the bonus of being able to work anywhere in the country, and quite a few places overseas while getting the the perks that come with the job.



JMO, I could be wrong

 

[stephenson]

I would point out that medical care is not free after 20 years. It is somewhat subsidized, but definitely not free.

 

[imnontrad]

29 year vet here.

Each service has their own "personality" and he has to find the one that best suits him. He may have a difficult time adjusting at first because he would be so much older than others in the same paygrade but it is worth it to stick it out. And like any career, he should be proactive to get the most out of it. This can mean training, college credit (or the whole degree), leadership skills, travel/living in other countries.

if later on he decides to leave active duty, even the retirement benefits he could earn in the Reserves/ National Guard cam come in handy. he could get Tricare health insurance, which could help him to become an entrepreneur. And that check that started at age 60 (immediately upon retirement for those on active duty) allowed me to retire early. Plus, I only have to pay Medicare Part B and do not have to worry about co-pay. And now they have the option to invest in the very low cost TSP (401K equivalent) and look forward to retirement pay after 20 years.

The USAF is known for advancing quickly in the enlisted ranks when junior (more pay) but then getting tougher to get promoted later on (E-7/8/9).

Have him talk to the recruiters from all branches (also US Coast Guard and Space Force) to see what he thinks would be a good fit. Each recruiter has quotas (monthly? quarterly?) so if he picks a service but cannot get the career he wants, another recruiter may have a quota for that specialty or he would need to wait a little more for a quota to open up.

Also look at the different career paths. Some are strictly military related and others have civilian equivalents. He would need to look at not only the pay while in but also the current pay range for experience (whether after 4 years or 20/30) later.

But if he saves/invests right, he may not have to work again once he retires. Although no longer owned by the creators, here's two websites with info about that - https://the-military-guide.com and https://themilitarywallet.com

 

[2177V]

US Army 1972 to 79 with combat duty in the Korean DMZ. Had to sleep in a tent during the monsoon season and not on a dry 6 inch mattress in the Air Force or Navy. Soaking wet all day and all night…and dry toilet tissue was a valuable commodity. Slept naked in my tent and my worst experience is putting my wet clothes back on in the morning. Learned to trust my buddies and take orders without hesitation. This hardship made me successful in civilian life because I took all my work seriously and executed the assignment faster and better than most other people who never experienced similar physical hardships. Any military service will provide discipline and focus in anyone’s life.

 

[Raygun99]

It will be a different good story from every veteran. I will only relay not promote: I had an aptitude for Electronics. Initially they put me into Ctypto-Maintenance. A 44 week tech school (Repair and Maint of electronic coding/ communication equipment) As luck would have it after 3 years I was offered the opportunity to cross train to Medical Equipment Repair. Another 40+ weeks of training but the BEST investment of my life. Worked in hospital repairing everything from respirators to lab equipment to X-Ray…. I left the Air Force and stepped right into similar jobs at local hospital. 30 years later working that career field has provide my family a great way of life and retirement. As noted in the beginning each person will have their own good story! Try to get the job guarantee if possible but if not you may get to cross train.

 

[wwoodhou]

Air Force Vet here... make sure you know what you want to get into career-wise after you leave the Air Force. Computer Programming, Cybersecurity, translate well into civilian jobs. Civil Engineering career fields (HVAC, maintenance) are also options. Physical fitness in the Air Force are not as severe as other services. Delay enlistment until your career field has been guaranteed by the recruiter - don't enlist with an open ended career field choices. Unlike other services, one typically would be able to be with your family on assignments and we have better base locations. Contribute as much as possible to your TSP (401k equivalent). Strive to be an Officer (have a degree before joining in) - better pay and better treatment. Becoming an Officer after being in the enlisted ranks is very competitive and difficult. Good luck and thank you for your desire to serve our country.

 

[BlueAFMom]

Joined the AF in 1990 and retired in 2017--no one in my family was military prior and I had very little exposure. They were looking for my medical specialty and I was looking for entry-level training so I joined as an officer. One thing led to another and I enjoyed a wonderful career, lots of education opportunities and an early retirement.

I agree with all comments about narrowing down career field choices but look broad and beyond just aviation-related fields. Medical fields, for example, offer excellent training and certifications. We could not keep an ultrasound tech after their initial commitment because the opportunities outside were plenty, lucrative, and often more interesting.

There are opportunities to cross-train after entry but they do not always work out so do not let a recruiter try to convince your son to come in now under any open specialty because he "can always cross train." Not true.

Maturity will be on his side and he will have leadership opportunities from basic on which can lead to quicker promotion and greater opportunities. The retirement system has changed and can be very generous but requires members to be more proactive to actively contribute to TSP and take steps to become vested at specific intervals (vs having to stay at least 20 years). He will also qualify for the post 9/11 GI bill after 4 years which provides a huge benefit that can be used by the member or passed to a family member.

If your son has an interest and the discipline to commit at least 4 years, I would recommend it. And, as far as fitness goes, getting ready for basic training by running and doing sit-ups and push-ups, as well as any other conditioning he would enjoy, would be my recommendation. They will get him across the finish line but a head start will give him confidence. The more he can embrace a more active lifestyle, the more he will enjoy his service time. It is true AF has lower fitness demands but passing the fitness test each year is a stressor for some and ends many careers.

Good luck to your son!

 

[OldShooter]

... The career field to go into in the AF is air traffic control. Can make a 20 year career out of it, or leave the AF and go work for the fed. Current top out for ATC is about 140k/year with the fed. The AF does give some decent bonus $ for that field. The four years in the AF would count towards federal retirement, and ATC's are in the 'safety retirement' system with a mandated retirement age of 54 (last time I checked). The ATC field has the bonus of being able to work anywhere in the country, and quite a few places overseas while getting the the perks that come with the job. ...

From personal experience flying and spending some time in ATC facilities I can report that controllers are simply amazing. It is not a job for just anyone; the mental skills to keep track of up to 16 airplanes operating in proximity in three dimensions is very special. Here's a little bit I found about the civilian side job pursuit: https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/how-to-become-an-air-traffic-controller

I think @gooddog is right; ATC would be a great job but understand that not everyone has the specialized mental ability that's needed. I for one, don't, even though I do well on the IQ type tests.

 

[TrophyHusband]

20+ year recently(?) retired AF Officer. Aviator, commanded at multiple levels, multiple deployments, three combat tours, staff college graduate, multiple overseas tours, and was on the fast track for General.

So, with my credibility established and a successful career behind me you'd think I'd be lining up with all the others recommending your son join. But instead, I'm going to be the one dissenting voice here and recommend that your son DOES NOT join the Air Force.

If you notice, most of the comments from other veterans are from veterans who retired years ago, if not decades. And I would point out that the USAF, and military of that past is essentially gone. The benefits, facilities, opportunities, comradery, esprit de corps and mission focus are absent in the new reality of today's culture. Just turn on the news and you will see the military reeling from one crisis to another. Senior leaders who in times past prided themselves on being apolitical are now either partisan foils or hacks. These missteps at the most senior levels is manifesting itself in bad policy that permeates the service and affects everyone negatively from 4-star to E-1.

The USAF, once the leading edge of technological innovation in the country, is saddled with outdated and poorly maintained equipment. The B-52 first flew in 1951 and the AF plans on flying it until 2040+. Add to this the KC135, T38, F15, MMIII, etc.. And that's just airframes. It doesn't include the other, less known and less public systems and equipment. Dorms have mold, buildings leak, roads and facilities are in disrepair. The peace dividend of the 90's gutted military infrastructure spending and the band-aids and chewing gum fixes of the past 20 years are no longer working.

The things in the past that made the military unique, and therefore attractive to some youth (e.g. service, patriotism, higher calling) are greatly diminished. The USAF and military of today is much more like any other bureaucratic government agency. Think of the US Park Service, but with better weapons.

If he has a family, or plans on having one, add another layer of complexity and reasons not to join. There are a lot of very unhappy wives and families in the military for a reason and any cursory look will show you divorce rates are higher in the military than the general population as a whole. There's a reason for that.

My son is a poster boy for joining the AF. Straight A student, 30+ ACT, fit, heavily involved in school, healthy, and had already started flying in high school. We had recruiters beating down our door trying to get him to go to the service Academies and/or offering 4-yr ROTC scholarships. I certainly didn't prohibit him from entertaining these offers, but I made no effort to facilitate them either. Believe me I breathed a huge sigh of relief when he decided to go pursue scholarship opportunities at a civilian school.

If your son is set on joining the military then the other posts have provided good information. But one piece of advice that I have not see anyone post is to make sure your son's VALUES and life outlook line up with the AF. Unfortunately, that's hard to know until you're in it.

And that is ultimately why I made the decision not to accept the offer of promotion and advancement that was offered me. The military is not what is was and not the organization I joined 20+ years ago. Organizational culture changes, I get it. But I, and your son, have to wake up every morning, look in the mirror and ask, "Am I a member of an organization/company that makes me proud/happy to be a part of it"? I could no no longer do so.

 

[RetireRay]

Air Force vet here. Spent four years active duty in the mid 1980’s, starting at the age of 19. Tested high on the aptitude tests, and was told they needed young recruits to train and manage new computer systems. I was excited about this. Then, while in basic training, I was told my job would be in air crew life support (fixing flight helmets, putting on life rafts onto planes and then taking them off). A monkey could have done that job. I was screwed and locked into a job for four years. I put money into the college fund, and started college at the age of 23. Graduated with a bachelor degree in business. Retired at age 52 after working in Silicon Valley 25 years or so by saving money and investing in tech stocks.
My advice to your son is that he is too old to start in the air force now. If he insists on signing up, join the Reserves. Active duty is too much of a time commitment for someone his age.