Rodent infestation - Landlord blames tenants. Please help.

[Safire]

This happened in the Bay Area. The tenant is a close friend and fellow autism parent who I've known for years via the autism forums we both frequent.

Corporate Landlord is blaming the rat / mice (she's not sure which it is) on the tenant. She's been in the unit with her kids and spouse for nearly 8 years and first began to notice mice / rats in her apartment last Feb (2020). She immediately notified the leasing office staff. Pest control apparently came out, left glue traps around her unit, caught a few mice / rats and then left. She tries to keep the home as clean as possible but as I also know, our kids can be VERY messy and leave crumbs of food / juice everywhere. Her carpet is at least 8 years old at this point and a hot mess. She says she tries to clean it up but it gets messed up due to her kid running around with food and drink many times.

Twist to the tale: 2 weeks ago, a rodent fell on her when she was cooking in the kitchen! She notified maintenance who came out and saw the unit, then promptly blamed it on her lovebird (single bird, the other died a few years ago). She also noticed that her carpet had been bitten into in several places and learned from her farm-girl sister that this means that the mice / rats are nesting and that this was a quite severe infestation.

Property manager sent her a NASTY email, alleging that when their maintenance worker entered the apartment, he saw "bird seed and bird poop all over the carpeted areas of the apartment" which was attracting the vermin and that she needs to do a deep clean of her unit to prevent this in the future. Oh, and she needs to pay to replace the carpet as it had been destroyed by her failure to keep a clean home that led to the rodent infestation. She was also verbally informed that if she did not deep clean the unit and the carpet then she'd receive a 3-day notice to quit since she had caused the infestation.

The bird is ONLY fed in the closet, where he is unfortunately relegated to due to her son's roughness with it. She's been trying to rehome her bird for a while now. The bird is allowed to fly freely in the living room for about 2 hours a day after her son is asleep. Otherwise, he's in the closet. The bird seed is in tightly lidded containers and there is NO birdseed or bird poop all over the unit.

I know she needs a lawyer, but is it possible that the infestation happened due to my friend's kid's "lack of cleanliness"? She has NO other pets. There are 4 units in the building, and two of the other tenants each have 2 cats. One of the tenants with the cats had a fruit fly infestation all last week. My friend is upset because she has two older kids that will be graduating high school in 2022, and 2023, respectively and being forced to move now would be a real problem.

Pest control is a "joke". He came in last week, walked around the unit, pointed out crumbs in the carpet and rat / mice poop and told her to "deep clean" the unit. He didn't even leave traps out to catch the critters. She paid to install traps out of her own pocket and has caught about 7 rats / mice so far.

He did mention 3 entry points, one of which was sealed after my friend raised a HUGE cry over it. She gets emails continually blaming her for the infestation and is at her wits' ends. She did schedule a deep clean with the apartment's own vendors and worries if maybe she would be considered at fault by doing so?

What are her options? Lawyers are expensive and I was hoping to pass on some information to her if anyone could give her GENERAL advice on whether she can be forced to move and if the landlord can pin the infestation on her and make her responsible for replacing the carpet? Per the terms of her lease, she is not responsible for cleaning carpets after 5 years of residency, but the maintenance manager very kindly pointed out that that is only for cleaning and "normal wear and tear". This damage is not "normal" he says, so she's responsible.

Any advice for her? Again, is the infestation and subsequent carpet damage her fault / responsibility to cure?

I'll have her read any responses here herself. Thank you so much for your advice in this regard.

 

[RobbieB]

Get the carpet cleaned.

 

[Another Reader]

It sounds like she is having difficulty keeping the unit clean with all her other responsibilities. As a landlord, my view is that she is causing problems for the other tenants and for me by not cleaning and maintaining the unit. She needs to rehome the bird immediately and take steps to clean up the mess.

As she is in the Bay Area, the landlord may have difficulty evicting her, but I cannot blame the company for trying. Not only is she damaging the unit, she is creating problems for the other tenants in the property, including health and safety issues. The landlord needs to provide healthy and safe conditions for all the tenants, which means the vermin must be removed. A responsible tenant would comply with the landlord's request to clean and would take steps, such as rehoming the bird, to prevent the problem from getting worse.

At 8 years, she may not be responsible for replacing the carpet, as that is a typical life for apartment carpet. That would depend on custom and/or law in the jurisdiction.

The easiest answer for her is to clean up the mess and get rid of the bird. Maybe you could help her with that.

 

[Safire]

It sounds like she is having difficulty keeping the unit clean with all her other responsibilities. As a landlord, my view is that she is causing problems for the other tenants and for me by not cleaning and maintaining the unit. She needs to rehome the bird immediately and take steps to clean up the mess.

As she is in the Bay Area, the landlord may have difficulty evicting her, but I cannot blame the company for trying. Not only is she damaging the unit, she is creating problems for the other tenants in the property, including health and safety issues. The landlord needs to provide healthy and safe conditions for all the tenants, which means the vermin must be removed. A responsible tenant would comply with the landlord's request to clean and would take steps, such as rehoming the bird, to prevent the problem from getting worse.

At 8 years, she may not be responsible for replacing the carpet, as that is a typical life for apartment carpet. That would depend on custom and/or law in the jurisdiction.

The easiest answer for her is to clean up the mess and get rid of the bird. Maybe you could help her with that.

Yes, you're right. She needs to clean up the unit and I've told her so. However, I don't think it's right that she bears 100% of the responsibility for a rodent infestation since she's been there almost 8 years and this started last year. Rats can enter at will, and, if not for birdseed, it would be something else (as far as I know). Can she blame her next door neighbor if she suddenly ends up with a fruit fly infestation?

I'm not a landlord either but there are other units in the complex that also seem to be having an infestation. These are in other buildings (at least that's what she told me) so it looks like it's an ongoing issue.

Can a LL simply blame the tenant and do nothing? Not even place traps?

 

[Brat]

She must take all actions to mitigate the infestation. No excuses.

Residents in areas with homeless campers are also having similar problems.

 

[Safire]

She must take all actions to mitigate the infestation. No excuses.

Yes, that is as much as I've also told her. However, does the LL not have the duty to call pest control and actually set baits / traps and close openings?

 

[Another Reader]

I'm not going to address the legal issues here. She has an issue in her unit that she needs to address. If she rehomes the bird and cleans up the mess, it should become apparent if she is the cause of the problems. The landlord can make a reasoned decision about the proper course of action if her compliance does not solve the problem.

Fruit flies are a localized problem that is easily fixed. Throw out the fruit in a sealed bag or container and clean the area. Problem solved. Rats and mice are a problem of much greater magnitude. She will likely find the health department at her door along with a very concerned landlord if she doesn't clean up her mess.

A reasonable attempt to comply is a lot cheaper than an attorney...

 

[Safire]

I'm not going to address the legal issues here. She has an issue in her unit that she needs to address. If she rehomes the bird and cleans up the mess, it should become apparent if she is the cause of the problems. The landlord can make a reasoned decision about the proper course of action if her compliance does not solve the problem.

Fruit flies are a localized problem that is easily fixed. Throw out the fruit in a sealed bag or container and clean the area. Problem solved. Rats and mice are a problem of much greater magnitude. She will likely find the health department at her door along with a very concerned landlord if she doesn't clean up her mess.

A reasonable attempt to comply is a lot cheaper than an attorney...

LOL. Really, a "very concerned landlord"? He does not even want to install baits and traps and close the openings that were identified as entry ways for the pests? I hope the health department shows up ... maybe they can tell the LL to pay for actual pest control while simultaneously getting the tenant to "clean up".

Just to add - there are OTHER units in OTHER buildings that also have pests in the unit. NONE of this exempts my friend from the need to keep a tidy home, I absolutely understand and agree with that. But I doubt the law would 100% pin the blame on the tenant as landlords would like it to!

 

[Another Reader]

Having the health department show up will likely insure an eviction if she does not clean up her mess, if it is legally possible. The landlord may be cited even though the tenant likely caused the problem. Tenants are plentiful, and this one is is causing a big headache.

Quit worrying about what the landlord "should" do, and clean up the mess.

 

[Safire]

Having the health department show up will likely insure an eviction if she does not clean up her mess, if it is legally possible. The landlord may be cited even though the tenant likely caused the problem. Tenants are plentiful, and this one is is causing a big headache.

Quit worrying about what the landlord "should" do, and clean up the mess.

Yes, I have already told her to clean the unit up. I also noted that she claims that other units in other buildings also have pests. How does this make it wholly and solely the tenants' problems? You're right, there are plenty of tenants and plenty of landlords looking for PAYING tenants. No need for her to deal with a slum lord who wont do a darn thing about his slum.

Health departments don't think like LL do and blame everything on the tenant. She needs to clean up, PERIOD. He needs to get pest control out because who knows if the rats didn't originate in another unit in the building and if it won't spread quickly... which it appears it already has.

I do not want to derail this thread anymore. Anyone else care to tell me if the LL can pin the infestation on her and make her pay for the carpets in full after almost 8 years?

 

[ivinsfan]

OP you do realize you are only getting one side of the story here? Have you actually been in this unit and seen the surrounding units?

 

[Another Reader]

I comprehend, no problem there. You are making the situation worse by blaming the landlord and suggesting your friend get an attorney. She needs to stop contributing to the problem by cleaning up her mess. If the infestation continues after she has complied, she can't be blamed.

 

[Safire]

OP you do realize you are only getting one side of the story here? Have you actually been in this unit and seen the surrounding units?

Nope. I have only been inside her unit and noticed that the carpet needs deep cleaning. She's getting it done next week. I have not spoken to any of the other tenants (I don't live near her and it's none of my business). She asserted that she's been talking to other tenants and that some of them also have mice / rats in the unit. I did tell her it doesn't make a difference to her personally but I mention this here because I am wondering if this might affect how the infestation is viewed and if she is the sole cause.

However, I am concerned about her being made to pay for the carpets. That seems unfair. Plus, can she really have caused the infestation if she's been there all these years?

 

[Brat]

In a word, yes. There may also be conditions in the neighborhood that are contributing to the rodent infestation but she needs to do whatever in her home to not make her place attractive to rodents.

Other units may have problems because of the condition in her unit. She is responsible for what she can control, she needs to make her apartment not inviting to rodents.

Fruit flies.. in a bowl: apple cider vinegar with sugar and a few drops of liquid detergent. Find the recipe on the internet.

 

[Safire]

I comprehend, no problem there. You are making the situation worse by blaming the landlord and suggesting your friend get an attorney. She needs to stop contributing to the problem by cleaning up her mess. If the infestation continues after she has complied, she can't be blamed.

No, I am actually not in favor of her getting an attorney. She's not that well off and I don't want her to force the LL's hands - esp as the LL is a corporate and the "he" I referred to the property manager.

I am not blaming the LL either. Vermin have changed their eating habits since restaurants closed down and they no longer have access to restaurant trash. This could have happened to anyone.

I have no beef in this game aside from genuine concern for her and her family. I did tell her to deep clean the unit and she is getting it done next week. Her kids will need to in the district until they graduate. It would be best if she works with the LL, but I am not 100% sure she caused the infestation and that she's entirely responsible for the resulting damages. That was my objection, really.

She can do all the cleaning she wants but surely the LL has the responsibility to plug the entry points?

 

[ivinsfan]

It's possible the LL feels its pointless to attempt rodent control until the place is cleaned up. But glue traps and mice traps are cheap. Buy some steel wool and look for small entry points and then stuff it the holes. This will cost practically nothing. If she cleans up and continues to catch rodents she can think about the next step. The problem is she will have to keep it clean.






An underlying unspoken problem might she is keeping the unit so dirty and such that they just want to be rid of her. Or perhaps they have another reason to want her gone, is it fair or even legal ? I don't know but it happens all the time;


When I mentioned seeing the other units I was about the surrounding like overflowing trash or a general look of disrepair.

 

[Sunset]

Of course she should keep the place clean.
I'm not sure "deep" cleaning a carpet will do much, but it certainly could be vacuumed. Maybe her local grocer store has those rental carpet steam machines, would cost her ~$40 to rent for a day.
Can she borrow a cat ?

When I was young, our new house was overrun with mice. Parents put out lots of those snapping traps. I recall going down to the kitchen in the early morning, picking out a trapped still alive mouse and bringing the little fellow back to bed with me.
Once we got a cat, the mice disappeared.

Perhaps she could foster a cat - that way she doesn't have a long term pet, some else pays the bills.

<edit> Mice can be a health hazard, even their droppings and pee can carry disease.

 

[kgtest]

in tough situations I always ask myself two questions...

Question 1: What is the worst possible outcome for this situation.
Question 2: What is the best possible outcome for this situation.

And then once I have understood the outcomes from both ends of the spectrum I start to work to mitigate or solve for the BEST possible outcome.

IF this were me, and I have experienced mice before in my own home (not my own rented unit), but as a landlord have experienced issues with mice in one of my tenants rentals... I know from those experiences that the BEST possible outcome is to rid the infestation. IF that means moving out...and it might, then that is one possible solution to work towards. If it involves eliminating the attraction for the mice I would try that.

I placed fake owl's outside my home. DW and I cleaned really well, cleaned the carpets, I filled all the cracks, replaced worn weather stripping, etc...but it wasn't until I replaced my deck that I actually started to make progress. It was actually WET/poorly installed/lack of flashing on the ledger board of that deck that was causing an ant infestation, that was then causing a mice attraction.

Now I have traps inside, and in my garage, multiple fake owls outside the premises (and some real ones that hoot and holler which is evidence there are still mice when the Owol come for dinner). The problem is not as bad now and I still catch the occasional mouse OUTSIDE on the trap.

As for the lawyers and all that business, I just don't really know. As the landlord, I was willing to tackle filling cracks, paying for pest control and educating the tenants on what was actually a clean unit. I brought them over to another tenant's unit that was willing to share what their clean unit looked like. I offered some garbage bags free of charge. Eventually that tenant and their uncleanliness moved along, and I was able to deep clean and tackle the root of the issue which was uncleanliness.

Not sure if that helps at all but the advice is worth what we paid for it.

 

[kgtest]

Oh and the neighbors complained about rodents getting inside as well. One year my neighbor caught like over a dozen of them. I've caught less and less each year, but I also have a wood pile out back that I know they nest in. That reminds me, its almost winter and I need to set some more traps because they like to try and get inside and warm up when winter comes along.

 

[tb001]

She needs to clean her unit and eliminate any food sources. If she knows where they are getting in, IMO, her money would be better spent on covering the entry points vs an attorney.

If she’s done both things and the rodent problem persists then I think a conversation with a lawyer is a good next step.

Bird food is a huge problem re rodents and birds are messy eaters. Unless she is exceptionally clean, which based on your description would be a surprise, there is NO way there isn’t bird food being dropped from the seed.

If the environment is not hospitable to rodents, they’ll find a better place. It requires adequate pest control measures but it starts with eliminating obvious food sources.

The previous owners of our house had huge rodent infestations. They had to do massive clean up before we closed and we still found piles of rodent droppings in so many places. They had birds and it was basically a fat free for all with all of the seed remnants on the ground. We have a pest control service, but are also very clean and no pet food on the floor. Also no sign of any rodents.

 

[Ginny]

This may be a rent controlled apartment so the landlord probably wants her out. She may have a hard time finding another place she can afford.

 

[Amethyst]

On the tenant's side (and yes, we have been through this):

The landlord should have brought in a real exterminator to evaluate and address the situation - not just their do-it-all guy. A good exterminator will find and plug entry points, find any nests, use poison/traps as appropriate, assess the whole building (not just your unit - rodents could be getting in through another unit), explain how rodents get in and how they seek food, and inform the resident of measures they need to take (such as putting food in tightly lidded containers and ensuring no food is left on the floor).

After 8 years, I don't think any judge would award a landlord anything for a dirty or damaged carpet, no matter how disgusting. That's what security deposits are for.

On the landlord's side:

The tenant clearly has made her unit attractive to rodents by leaving food out, feeding a bird, and allowing a child to run around carrying food. Mice don't parachute in - they forage, and stick around when they find food. Take the food away, and the mice will (eventually) go away too, although you do have to trap and poison in the meantime.

With respect to children and "inevitability" - if the child is less than three years old, that's reasonable. Even at that age, the child should be getting the message that we only eat at the kitchen table, and don't carry food around the house. Parents have to model correct behavior. Littler ones, who don't really understand, will make plenty of mistakes, but the training should have started already. This isn't something you can tell the tenant (who will only resent it), but it's worth keeping in mind. She is contributing to the problem.

I would not renew this tenant's lease, and would keep her security deposit into the bargain, after taking plenty of photos to show in court, in case she sues to get the deposit back. I would not recommend her to other landlords.

 

[Amethyst]

Yes! That is landlord 101.

Yes, that is as much as I've also told her. However, does the LL not have the duty to call pest control and actually set baits / traps and close openings?

 

[Aerides]

The OP's friend should look for a place that allows a bird to fly freely 2 hours per day or rehome the bird.

And either way, at this point, look for a new place.

The bird is the deal breaker. No way that bird isn't pooping. Whether or not the bird is the cause of the rats is debatable, but the LL can easily shirk responsibility based on what they have seen. If the friend can't move, then she needs to clean up and exterminate properly out of her own pocket, because the evidence shows she's a possible factor in creating the issue.

If this is an apartment complex, the other neighbors now also have rats...or will soon. The friend could find herself in a very expensive and unpleasant situation if she doesn't fix this herself really really soon. Surely there are organizations that will take in the bird? I know it is unpleasant to give up a pet, but they are a responsibility.

 

[Amethyst]

If there were no rodents till this year, that's sheer good luck (the other tenants' cats are probably helping too).

"Rodents getting in" is what rodents do. They find their way in at some point, while foraging for food and a place to raise their young. Just as in your own home, you bear some responsibility for not giving them a friendly welcome. The one thing on the landlord is to bring in an exterminator to assess the whole situation, across the building the landlord owns, and propose solutions. But just as in your own home, if the exterminator says to keep food locked up and unavailable to rodents, the person who lives there is on the hook to comply. No solution will work without that. The mice don't give a rap how hard it is to control your kids.

Yes, you're right. She needs to clean up the unit and I've told her so. However, I don't think it's right that she bears 100% of the responsibility for a rodent infestation since she's been there almost 8 years and this started last year. Rats can enter at will, and, if not for birdseed, it would be something else (as far as I know). Can she blame her next door neighbor if she suddenly ends up with a fruit fly infestation?

I'm not a landlord either but there are other units in the complex that also seem to be having an infestation. These are in other buildings (at least that's what she told me) so it looks like it's an ongoing issue.

Can a LL simply blame the tenant and do nothing? Not even place traps?