Forcing a smile while cringing

Markola

Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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Nov 24, 2013
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Twin Cities
Last night we had a couple over for dinner, whom we are just getting to know, and who updated us on the house they bought recently. It’s a big, 1903 virtual mansion with 3 floors and a carriage house with an apartment. I would describe the area of our city that it’s in as, ahem, an “emerging market”. As they told us the story, I got a pit in my stomach, which has only grown worse. Both are previously divorced and have teenage kids from those marriages, so they are just recovered from all of that economic fallout. My guess is, knowing what they do, they probably earn $200K-$250K or so.

The house is handsome and was in the half million dollar range. They bought it sight unseen, contingent on inspection, because when they learned of it, there was already one other offer. They couldn’t even get inside it until their offer was accepted. They sold a perfectly nice four square home in two days and took on a new, larger mortgage.

They bought the house to live in and to rent out both the carriage house and also the third floor. The third floor is not yet built out as a rental unit, so they’ll have to put in a kitchenette. The carriage house has turned out to be such a mechanical disaster that it will cost $300K to restore. They learned they can’t even turn the lower half of the carriage house into a garage, because the historic district requires a certain setback from the alley for parking, which the structure doesn’t meet. So there’s no garage, and lots of masonry work needed to even have a proper driveway from the street side to the back.

Despite the marketing photos, the kitchen is cheaply done, with lots of replacements needed. The newer furnace turns out to be a brand with severe problems such that they haven’t yet found a plumber who will service it. And on and on.

I fear our new friends have set themselves up for financial disaster and I can’t help but look at them as two movie characters who are dead but don’t know it. What they have done is none of my business, so all I could do as they talked was say “Wow!” a lot, and “It’s a beautiful house. Good luck!” I also can’t express my concerns to any other real life friends without risking relationships. I can’t do a single thing but be concerned for them.
 
Sounds like the movie "Money Pit".
 
If you sense they are feeling some regret or overwhelmed, a friendly "hey, you could just sell it!" might be what they want to hear.
 
OP - sounds like a nightmare to me. Their house and your dinner with them
It reminds me that new friends in ER can be tricky
Many of use got here by making good (or at least adequate) financial decisions.
Those making risky financial decisions close to retirement make me wonder - "Do we have enough in common to sustain a friendship ? "
YMMV
 
Act in haste, repent in leisure.

Agree with all the Money Pit references.
 
From a cost perspective, if I was faced with this, I would have bit off on that house deal as a trade for my expensive California divorce. :LOL:

Heck, by the time your friends get through with the "rehab", they may likely be in divorce court!

All you can do is wish them good luck!
 
Not much you can do or say to them in their face. I have 2 wise men around me... my husband and my son. Both of them like new homes because they translate to less repair and maintenance issues.

I agree with the comment that when/if they realize what they have taken on, they can sell the home and get whatever they can get out of it then and look for a newer and less problematic home.
 
I don't know what the RE market is like where you are Markola, but prices are very high here, with properties receiving multiple bids, and being sold for higher than the listing price. It is stories like that of your new friends, that makes me wonder if the market is about to turn. I can't imagine purchasing a property without having seen it first. However, there are many ways to get out of a sale, especially if the inspection is a thorough one, and not the more superficial type that happens with most RE transactions.

I wish them the best of luck. It sounds as if they are going to need it.
 
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Three hundred grand sounds like a lot to rebuild a structure that came as a bonus with a half million dollar house. I'd do something more modest.

A plumber to fix a furnace? You mean an HVAC guy?

What's the street address, I'll zillow it, or do you have a pic?
 
^^^^^ It’s a boiler but maybe I meant HVAC, dunno. I don’t worry about you, Robbie, but I’m wary of posting a pic or address. The Twin Cities ain’t that big of a town, and you never know who on here might have a connection to the house or owners. Cheers.

I wish them the best, too. I don’t sense they have come to grips with the Money Pit, and there’s a chance I’m wrong and they’ll push through and make it work. If not, we’ll be here with a shoulder to cry on.

Man, of all the wealth destroyers I’ve seen, unnecessary, aspirational, emotionally-purchased real estate seems consistently the worst.
 
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The current heated real estate market has caused many buyers to do things they would not do under normal conditions, including buying a house without properly inspecting it first.

We saw similar behavior during the last housing crash, and unfortunately for many it did not end well.
 
I can see why the British call those old, crumbling manor home masterpieces that need everything “piles”. LOL. “Albatross” was already taken.
 
One of my recurring nightmares is that I've bought such a house and it is so great to wake up and realize it was only a [-]dream[/-] nightmare.
 
A boiler, that says a lot. Steam heat with big cast iron radiators? I wish them my best.

Winter is coming and the twin cities get pretty cold. Big energy bills too.
 
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Now that they are in the place, do they still love it for whatever unique qualities drew them to it in the first place?

Because that can make up for a lot of dough and sweat equity. Improving the house becomes an expensive hobby, and who are we to make fun of those?
 
Three hundred grand sounds like a lot to rebuild a structure that came as a bonus with a half million dollar house. I'd do something more modest. ...

Yes, that struck me as odd also. Seems out of step.

Last night we had a couple over for dinner, whom we are just getting to know, ...

I fear our new friends have set themselves up for financial disaster and I can’t help but look at them as two movie characters who are dead but don’t know it. What they have done is none of my business, so all I could do as they talked was say “Wow!” a lot, and “It’s a beautiful house. Good luck!” I also can’t express my concerns to any other real life friends without risking relationships. I can’t do a single thing but be concerned for them.

Yes, new friends, you need to tread lightly. With old friends you can say "What - are you out of your mind!" And laugh about it, well, depending on your relationship.

.... I wish them the best, too. I don’t sense they have come to grips with the Money Pit, and there’s a chance I’m wrong and they’ll push through and make it work. If not, we’ll be here with a shoulder to cry on. ...

I think about all you can do is commiserate, and maybe just some plain talk (not advice) to get them thinking, something like: "Wow, sounds like you have a lot on your plate with this new place. I suppose you're putting a list and a plan together, to tackle the stuff that's important, or needs timely attention first. That can help so you're not undoing one thing to get to something else. You've got a tough road, but that should help make it smoother. .

I'm in a somewhat similar situation with my son. He (and his wife) bought a place this year, big bucks, but (fortunately) in a neighborhood of bigger buck places. If I had gone along when he looked at it, or during the inspection, I wold have had a lot of input. He's not a DIY type, and has a positive attitude, so I guess he just overlooks the problems.

I would have suggested that he either back out of the deal, run away, or be aware that this house has major problems that will involve major costs and time and pain to get fixed. But I don't think he realizes any of that yet. He's been doing some little cosmetic things, when he should be doing triage on the major stuff.

The house was a major refab/addition in the 90's, and much of it was done poorly, really odd half-cocked stuff. The floor between the new/old is sunken to the point it's a trip hazard. The drainage is poor, some siding is rotted worse than I've ever seen from water from plugged/broken gutters. It's a mess. Some stuff looks nice, but there is a lot of stuff that has me shaking my head - his inspector apparently missed a lot. Some of it is a real safety hazard. Some very weird furnace installations, some was clearly against code (vented to the garage!) and patched up after the inspection, but not done right and the patches may have created other problems. I've pointed those out to him, and I had to get pretty forceful to motivate him to get them fixed. He's still a bit clueless. When I was over watching my grandson for an evening, I was entertaining the thought of 'accidentally' burning the place down for the insurance, so they could start from scratch. It's almost that bad. I've actually lost sleep worrying about it. Kind of reminds me of the "It's a Wonderful Life" and "Green Acres" homes.

Oh well, what's done is done. All I can do is try to guide them through some things, and gently point this stuff out, w/o getting insulting. That's a fine line.

-ERD50
 
They could have way more dough than you think and all this worry will be for naught.
 
Wait until they invite you to their new house for a dinner.



For sure! And I do hope I’m wrong. Part of it is my own painful lessons learned based on an old house we bought before learning how much it needed. I hate to see someone else walk into the same trap but it really is not my business, as I said at the top. We did manage to get out from under our pile and, like Travelover, it was sweet relief.

I see only downside to saying anything but encouragement. They are grown people who got themselves into this and they can get themselves out, if they need to.
 
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