Will streaming services take over?

[Retch The Grate]

On the 4k HDR front, the visual impact is pretty significant and I'm happy with my home theatre setup, but I was also perfectly happy watching stuff off Netflix onto a $500 HDTV too... The relentless march of technology does mean that 4k TVs are cheap now, and the streaming services are the easiest way to get content for that. 8k even more so since there is no Blu-Ray support for that rez. I really do expect that ultimately we end up with very high quality TVs and very fast streams for everything, but as long as there is physical media to collect, I'm likely collecting it.

 

[Retch The Grate]

One of the things I noticed and wondered about is how many people are paying for way more speed than they need. We have Comcast, at the moment, paying $20/mo for 60 mbs and can stream to at least 2 TVs and surf the web at the same time, no issues. When we last hooked up, the installer made the comment, this was the first installation under a Gig that he had done in a while. I realize that if you are working and have kids, all at home on zoom, you need faster internet. But if not, just a thought.

We've got a gig, which is good since we use video chat, download many gb games, stream high bandwidth videos (including the very high bandwidth BraviaCore stuff that I just started trying out) all at the same time. My wife's internet usage does not impact mine, and vice versa. If there wasn't a huge premium for 2gig connections I would have got that from Comcast.

 

[JoeWras]

I think that I started this under pet peeves and then deleted it. Streaming is not for everyone. My 87 year old mother with memory problems is now faced with learning how to stream her tv channels as the cable provider (Sparklight in Boise) is going to a new model. Enter the Firestick and an app called Sparklight TV. If anyone is familiar with the very small remote and no numbers and how Firestick starts up and how to choose and start an app this is a disaster and I have been to her house every day to help. PLEASE bring back cable

No advice except to say I've heard there are after-market remotes to make it easier, but I have no experience. It is a completely different concept, and a serious ding against streaming. The cable remote was very TV-like. Streaming is another world.

Frankly, this is why I complained against streaming for 3 years. It took me 3 years to get fully comfortable with the UI concepts.

Elderly folks have no prayer, and I'm sorry to hear this in your case. For my dad, he couldn't even handle a Uverse remote. I finally just plugged an antenna to his TV and had him use his TV remote for sketchy OTA. He turned out to be happy with it since it had all those sub-channels with old TV shows.

 

[foxcreek9]

Sounds like the income-limited Essentials HSI program to me, or a time-limited promo.

It is, will go to $45 next summer. I switch back and forth with another provider every 12 months or so. But even at $45 why pay $66 (local prices) for 100 or $100 for 1 gig, a lot of people do and don't need the extra speed.

 

[youbet]

Which is what I said in response to your blanket “It is not cost effective to cut the cord anymore.”

It seems a bit mean-spirited of you to mis-quote ShokWaveRider in the way you did. Yeah, you only omitted one word, but it changes what he said significantly.

I tend to agree with SWR. I'm currently running Infinity cable + streaming Prime TV + free streaming just to check things out. I'm surprised by how much I could spend on pay streaming services. Based on chit-chat I picked up here and there, I was thinking picking up a few paid streaming services and dropping Infinity would save the vast majority of my current TV expenditures. And it does save some. Just not as much as I was anticipating. It is not that cost effective, at least not as much as I had anticipated.

May "cut the cord" anyway. But so far I'm just a tad bit disappointed that the savings aren't greater.

 

[statsman]

May "cut the cord" anyway. But so far I'm just a tad bit disappointed that the savings aren't greater.

Pretty much where we're at, although rather than being disappointed, I would say we're not surprised. Part of this has to do with the dozen or so channels my DW likes (some with just one show she really likes). Another part is knowing a true à la carte system is just not possible when a handful of individual companies own several channels each and bundle them together, increasing the costs even if you only want one of those channels. The other part is watching the various companies (Disney, Paramount, Discovery, etc.) move themselves to streaming or at least part of their programming.

All that said, we'll be streaming sooner rather than later, whether we like it or not. Our current service, AT&T Uverse, will not last much longer since they stopped taking new customers last year. They are also pushing their DIRECTV Stream service as a replacement, a confusing name because it has nothing to do with their satellite service, DIRECTV. We do not have cable as an option here, and we have zero interest or need to go with a satellite service.

So, it will be streaming, and my DW is one of those described earlier in this thread as being someone who is not going to handle the transition very well. Saving money is all well and good until it starts impacting your everyday life. I'm someone who would be fine with the move today, and whatever frustration there is wouldn't bother me. I can deal with the challenge. DW is someone who yells at tech (DVR, smartphone, tablet, PC). I am a 24/7 sysadmin in our house, and that's *my* frustration.

 

[Midpack]

Pretty much where we're at, although rather than being disappointed, I would say we're not surprised. Part of this has to do with the dozen or so channels my DW likes (some with just one show she really likes). Another part is knowing a true à la carte system is just not possible when a handful of individual companies own several channels each and bundle them together, increasing the costs even if you only want one of those channels. The other part is watching the various companies (Disney, Paramount, Discovery, etc.) move themselves to streaming or at least part of their programming.

All that said, we'll be streaming sooner rather than later, whether we like it or not. Our current service, AT&T Uverse, will not last much longer since they stopped taking new customers last year. They are also pushing their DIRECTV Stream service as a replacement, a confusing name because it has nothing to do with their satellite service, DIRECTV. We do not have cable as an option here, and we have zero interest or need to go with a satellite service.

So, it will be streaming, and my DW is one of those described earlier in this thread as being someone who is not going to handle the transition very well. Saving money is all well and good until it starts impacting your everyday life. I'm someone who would be fine with the move today, and whatever frustration there is wouldn't bother me. I can deal with the challenge. DW is someone who yells at tech (DVR, smartphone, tablet, PC). I am a 24/7 sysadmin in our house, and that's *my* frustration.

My DW was dead set against cutting the cord and going to streaming, because she didn’t want to change anything either. I showed her a couple times but just having to change sources was a hard no to her. Antennas were a hard no too. For whatever reason changing sources spooked her.

So did the tile style guides vs the cable/satellite matrix guides she was used to.

After a couple years, and yet another price increase from Dish Network satellite she finally said ‘OK, I’ll try it.’ Having a matrix guide just like cable or satellite made her way more comfortable, PS Vue then YouTube TV and Hulu+Live have that - it looks and acts very much like the cable and satellite UIs. IMO the easiest way to get used to streaming is to start with one of these cable drop in replacements.

Once we switched (the savings then we huge), she was used to it after a couple days, and we never went back.

Now she uses Hulu+Live, and SHE subscribed to Apple TV+. We also have Disney+ and ESPN+ now along with a few other streaming apps. DW is totally comfortable now, it was taking that first step that was a major hurdle.

Having no contracts is a no brainer IMO. I can’t imagine a 1-2 year contract for TV ever again. YMMV

 

[disneysteve]

Having no contracts is a no brainer IMO. I can’t imagine a 1-2 year contract for TV ever again. YMMV

Sort of a contract I suppose. We prepaid for 3 years of Disney+. Prior to launching, they had a special deal for D23 members (the Disney fan club). We got 3 years for a super low price. I don't remember the exact number but it was under $4/mo so about half of the regular price. It was too good to pass up for this Disney-loving family.

 

[Calico]

Streaming services took over completely in my house around 2014. When my contract expired with Time Warner I never renewed and never went back.

Initially I replaced cable with Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Netflix. Over the last few years I added Britbox, Acorn TV, and PBS Masterpiece.

The combined cost of my monthly internet bill and all of the streaming services still does not equal what I was paying for cable service all those years ago.

It was easy for me to switch, because I never watch sports of any kind, or local programming, so I'm not missing anything.

 

[tmm99]

t with one of these cable drop in replacements.

Once we switched (the savings then we huge), she was used to it after a couple days, and we never went back.

Now she uses Hulu+Live, and SHE subscribed to Apple TV+. We also have Disney+ and ESPN+ now along with a few other streaming apps. DW is totally comfortable now, it was taking that first step that was a major hurdle.

I think Hulu+Live is a lot like cable but without the cable installation and contracts, which makes it better than cable, but the price is steep IMO. I wish someone started live TV that you can pick and choose the channels.

 

[Davidhelp]

Ala Carte is where it is at.
You need a pc to get the apps easily.

I use a ROKU box that is plugged into my tv set. I have a network cable from there that goes back to my Motorola MG8702 cable modem/router. You can buy a router separately if you cable modem does not include one. ROKU box I have https://www.roku.com/products/roku-ultra

I have been watching the FREE Pluto tv channel. They have every older show from 1950's to maybe 10 years ago. https://pluto.tv/en/live-tv/johnny-carson-tv

I pay for Sling tv at $42 a month. You get all of cable and more. I also have Amazons 'prime video' as I use Amazon to buy lots of stuff.

I watch quite a bit of Youtube using their app as you can use your pc to quickly find channels you like and click on the subscribe button. Subscribe then go back into the ROKU settings and update and the channel will appear in the Youtube app. You can also group the channels in the order you want.

I use a over the air tv antenna like MOHU and get many extra channels. Check out your area: https://www.tvpassport.com/tv-listings

A quite way to get the apps is to go to google and do a search or you can go to Roku and they will list the more popular ones up front. There are thousands to choose from!

List: https://channelstore.roku.com/browse
Categories. View the top list there: https://channelstore.roku.com/browse/recommended

 

[Cerys]

My late husband had a brain tumor, and could not grasp the changes of how to work the television for streaming. He was used to the dish, and he understood it and he could work it. Since I really couldn’t leave him alone when he wanted to watch anything on the streaming channels, he would asked me to go get it for him. And even then, he was extremely attached to Pluto television.

Which brings me to my weird thing with streaming. I am very schedule oriented. I didn’t realize that until the pandemic where it became very easy to sit on one’s three letters that’s my mother-in-law used to call it and do nothing but play on my phone all day. And now I’m having issues with getting anything done.

I’ve discovered that I don’t really stream anything. And I would far rather watch networks over the air. Because they are scheduled. Monday night at 9 o’clock is NCIS. I could go on. I don’t know why streaming is let’s use the term daunting to me although that’s not accurate. When there is something I truly wish to see, I’ll stream it no problem. But there is so much content that it’s overwhelming. Believe

I truly think that when I do the big move in a few months that I will cut the satellite dish out completely still have it, and try to get used to streaming. I can’t think that it will be difficult, because during the day I don’t really watch television , and when I watch in the evenings I’m almost always network tv.

 

[timo2]

My cable company started moving away from TV towards providing internet only. This was several years ago. The CEO had an interesting interview back in 2019: "..Cable One CEO Julie Laulis said bundling TV with internet is not a particularly effective method to hold on to customers. That’s because people aren’t canceling internet to begin with. As a result, offering bundled video wasn’t really moving the needle one way or another.

“We don’t see bundling as the savior for churn,” Laulis said. “I know that we don’t put time and resources into pretty much anything having to do with video because of what it nets us and our shareholders in the long run. We pivoted to a data-centric model over five, six years ago, and we’ve seen nothing to derail us from that path.”....

"The CEO of a cable company is saying she doesn’t care about television! That’s because a whopping 70 percent of Cable One’s subscribers buy only its broadband Internet service rather than bundling it with video, and churn is “low and getting lower,” Laulis said. And Cable One charges more for its residential broadband service than its peers. "..........as a result, Cable One has been shedding cable TV stations for years, refusing to pay increased programming costs on certain channels it has deemed replaceable. Cable One hasn’t offered any of Viacom’s channels, including Comedy Central and Nickelodeon, for nearly five years."........."“Cable One is a post-video cable business,” Moffett said in a research note issued Wednesday. “That means that video subscriber metrics don’t matter much (even if we, and everyone else, will continue to track them, if only to illustrate that an operator can prosper without video).”

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/03/cable-future-may-not-include-tv-as-cable-one-shows.html

I see Dish following a similar strategy with their abandonment of regional sports channels. They can't be everything to everyone and still be afordable.

 

[JJpop]

I dumped cable/satellite in 2018, have saved over $2K, and I'll probably never have to go back. While I don't think streaming will outright replace cable/satellite in "5 years" as the OP asked, I do think streaming will continue to erode and eventually kill off cable/satellite. The appearance of ESPN+, Paramount+, Disney+, Discovery+, Peacock is clear evidence the content providers believe they'd better establish themselves in streaming as they watch their cable/satellite subscription revenues decline year after year. And that's without including the serious damage Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, YTTV, Apple TV and others have done/are doing. YouTube (not YTTV) is another source of content apart from live broadcasts - it's surprising how many live shows appear in segments on YouTube very shortly after live broadcasts.

We are entering an Ala carte phase unfortunately, whether or not the tide turns back to bundling I don't know, but somehow I doubt it for the foreseeable future.

But you'd probably like an analysts opinion instead, links below.

It is clear that content, live sports especially, will largely drive winners and losers between cable, satellite and streaming - but that tide may have turned. Yes I know some people don't care about sports (but some will disagree and post anyway), but live sports is still the biggest factor holding cord cutters back. ESPN has faced a decline as the non-sports people ditch cable/satellite lowering revenues for all content providers who have resisted streaming (see ESPN+).

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/09/09/streaming-tv-really-can-eventually-replace-cable/
https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/05/06/cable-tv-lost-another-15-million-customers-in-q1/
https://www.axios.com/espn-streamin...ney-a01c04d2-32e1-417b-a3a4-2c4e31dae1b6.html

The problem with streaming live sports is the picture quality is very inferior to cable and satellite.

 

[Tuirc]

I know cable companies have tremendous control now but if content providers keep moving prime content to their private streaming like ESPN +, peacock, paramount the balance of power might shift.

I’m starting to think that in a few years we might look back at cable providers with fondness as we have many streaming services that together cost more than the old cable providers did to get the same content.

I don’t know what streaming services you have that could be so expensive unless you are duplicating a bunch of stuff or sports is super important to you. I cut the cable 5 years ago. I went from paying $259/mo for Xfinity to $17/mo for streaming services and my upgraded Gb FIOS connection (I only wanted that because I’m an IT guy and I still w*rk.) was $90 all in no deals. Still less than half of my cable. Today, I’ve added some premium packages to Prime (Amazon makes adding and removing premiums on a month to month basis easy). I usually do one. Currently, I have AMC+ and a subscription to The Great Courses. I can’t recommend the latter highly enough. Netflix has raised its prices. With all that, my streaming services are still < $30/mo. I still feel like there’s way more content than we have time to watch. The caveat: AU no longer give a crap about watching sports. If you do, you’ll probably pay at least a $100/month premium for that habit when it’s all said and done.

 

[Luvtoride]

The problem with streaming live sports is the picture quality is very inferior to cable and satellite.

I agree and that’s where the difference lies, LOCAL sports! From reading the posts here, local sports isn’t important to most of you. Being in the NJ/NY area with 9 local teams across 4 sports (not including football) there is no alternative to cable. Yes, it’s an expensive hobby to pay for and watch but there is no other “game in town” to watch. During peak seasons, my time to stream anything else is very limited and not worth paying for those services. I won’t cut the cord.

 

[Tuirc]

If you have kids or grandkids and you need that content, that’s a great price and a no brained to lock it in. Our grandkids are in Germany, so not something we would use or need to consider.

We also couldn’t imagine going back to the bad old days of cable.

 

[Retired Expat]

AT&T gouged me years with huh rates for each set top box/DVR and the bundled packages plus premium channels, phone and internet. Now no more land line or TV bundle, no box rentals or wire fees and worries. Is so much easier and despite quite a few paid streaming services saving over $1800 a year, plus the savings on TV at my vacation home as I use all the same streaming channels and even have them with me when I travel

Cable will have to adapt, become the east access to all those streaming channels that they will sell at the same price but earn their money in a commission from the streaming service or by putting in commercials. Where I can I gladly pay the few extra bucks to avoid commercials on streaming

On demand is the future, not DVR or having to watch on Thursday at 9 or remember to record.

 

[Old Microbiologist]

We live in Europe and have very inexpensive fast internet. It includes Cable television but no subtitles in English so other than CNN or BBC there is nothing else to watch without speaking Hungarian. This leaves us with Amazon Prime which I have to spoof using Unlocator to watch and it works well. Netflix actually requires you to pay the Hungarian subscription so it works "okay". Netflix is very good at blocking streaming content from the US regardless of whether you use a spoofer or VPN service. All commercial VPN servers use fixed IP addresses and these are all known by the providers. Why they are so restrictive is a different question. I am paying for the service (Amazon Prime and Netflix) so why bother with the restrictions at such fine detail?

Here it is not illegal to download stuff using torrents and I subscribe to an excellent private torrent service that ensures no viruses. So whatever I can't get between Youtube, Netflix and Amazon (or other streaming services) I can usually download okay. As my wife is Russian we VPN into Russia and watch Russian stuff which is generally better particularly for sports such as the Olymics where there are at least 20 channels playing simultaneously with different sports on Russian streaming services for free. Here in Hungary on Hungarian television, they only show events where Hungarians are competing. Eurosports has equally poor coverage.

We will be getting full 5G in April here so I may switch to that which will increase our speed from 500 Mbps to over 1000 Mbps. No clue about the cost but our cable service is roughly $40 a month and includes a landline telephone capability which we don't use.

 

[Midpack]

The problem with streaming live sports is the picture quality is very inferior to cable and satellite.

I don’t know if that’s true or not, our picture quality wasn’t degraded by cutting the cord since Feb 2018. But I do know there’s no technical reason you can’t stream sports at the same or better resolution-frame rate than cable or satellite. Most cable and satellite broadcasts are still 720p60 or less including ABC, Fox, ESPN with some 1080p in select cities including CBS and NBC. OTOH you can stream at 4K with Netflix, Hulu, Prime, Disney+, YouTube and others. Native resolution determines picture quality, upscaling does not equal content shot at higher native resolution-frame rate e.g. 4K. All this assumes your TV is capable of higher resolution-frame rates.

In the United States, 1080p over-the-air broadcasts are currently available in select stations in some cities in the US via ATSC 3.0 multiplex stations where as ATSC 3.0 is currently rolling out throughout the U.S. The majority of the stations that broadcast at 1080p are CBS and NBC stations and affiliates. All other stations do not broadcast at 1080p and usually broadcast at 720p60 (including when simulcasting in ATSC 3.0) or 1080i60 (outside of ATSC 3.0) encoded with MPEG-2. There is also technical restrictions with ATSC 3.0 multiplex stations that prevent stations from airing at 1080p. While converting to ATSC 3.0 is voluntary by TV Stations, there is no word when any of the major networks will consider airing at 1080p in the foreseeable future on a national scale, although they are required to broadcast ATSC signals for at least five years thereafter. However, satellite services (e.g., DirecTV, XstreamHD and Dish Network) utilize the 1080p/24-30 format with MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 encoding for pay-per-view movies that are downloaded in advance via satellite or on-demand via broadband. At this time, no pay service channel such as USA, HDNET, etc. nor premium movie channel such as HBO, etc., stream their services live to their distributors (MVPD) in this format because many MVPDs, especially DBS and cable, do not have sufficient bandwidth to provide the format streaming live to their subscribers without negatively impacting their current services.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p

 

[Old Microbiologist]

I will add that for us the big problem is subtitles as we are older and semi-hearing impaired. I need to read what I am hearing anyway as unusual vernacular (southern and ghetto are the hardest for me although Scottish is sometimes pretty awful as well) and some awful music often drowns out the speech. Sound engineers today seem to think overly loud music is better than listening to the actors. The downloaded torrents are pretty easy to add subtitles to but sometimes I have to edit another language from Arabic to English (using Google translate) on the text .sub file. It only takes a few minutes to do assuming the tracking is correct (matching the text to the actual speech on the video file). Amazon Primes is hit and miss but usually okay. As our Netflix is actually meant for Hungarians all content has Hungarian subtitles but not all have English subtitles. The same for television but there it is now very rare to be able to watch anything with English subtitles.

Movie theaters only rarely have English subtitles. The nice thing is movies are cheap at less than $2 for new releases. We also go to our neighboring city of Veszprem to the Concert Hall there and watch the Royal Opera broadcast live from London on a large screen. We usually go as a group with our other Hungarian and British ex-pat friends. It is also pretty cheap and a lot less expensive than traveling to London and the ridiculous prices at the theater there. It makes for a fun night out. But, several times a year my wife and I head over to Vienna (3 hour drive) for their opera if something excellent is playing. It is a nice overnight trip and we generally stay at a 5-star hotel Michelin starred restaurants and go to the theater in full dress. Generally, we go dancing afterward. These are not cheap trips but well worth it. Since COVID we haven't done it though.

 

[explanade]

We live in Europe and have very inexpensive fast internet. It includes Cable television but no subtitles in English so other than CNN or BBC there is nothing else to watch without speaking Hungarian. This leaves us with Amazon Prime which I have to spoof using Unlocator to watch and it works well. Netflix actually requires you to pay the Hungarian subscription so it works "okay". Netflix is very good at blocking streaming content from the US regardless of whether you use a spoofer or VPN service. All commercial VPN servers use fixed IP addresses and these are all known by the providers. Why they are so restrictive is a different question. I am paying for the service (Amazon Prime and Netflix) so why bother with the restrictions at such fine detail?

Here it is not illegal to download stuff using torrents and I subscribe to an excellent private torrent service that ensures no viruses. So whatever I can't get between Youtube, Netflix and Amazon (or other streaming services) I can usually download okay. As my wife is Russian we VPN into Russia and watch Russian stuff which is generally better particularly for sports such as the Olymics where there are at least 20 channels playing simultaneously with different sports on Russian streaming services for free. Here in Hungary on Hungarian television, they only show events where Hungarians are competing. Eurosports has equally poor coverage.

We will be getting full 5G in April here so I may switch to that which will increase our speed from 500 Mbps to over 1000 Mbps. No clue about the cost but our cable service is roughly $40 a month and includes a landline telephone capability which we don't use.

Interesting, so maybe streaming services won’t target a market like Hungary which allows torrents?

Are DVDs widely sold?

Are there caps on Internet?

In some Asian countries piracy with discs used to be rampant but I wonder if they’re using streaming or torrents now.

 

[JoeWras]

I agree and that’s where the difference lies, LOCAL sports! From reading the posts here, local sports isn’t important to most of you. Being in the NJ/NY area with 9 local teams across 4 sports (not including football) there is no alternative to cable. Yes, it’s an expensive hobby to pay for and watch but there is no other “game in town” to watch. During peak seasons, my time to stream anything else is very limited and not worth paying for those services. I won’t cut the cord.

True. If you really love your locals, they've been boxed in to cable. There was a short period where YTTV and Hulu+Live were OK for this, but it didn't last.

Hey, I say if that's your thing, blow the dough. Enjoy life, and sports brings enjoyment to many. It used to be my thing, but I've changed and it isn't as important to me anymore.

I don’t know if that’s true or not, our picture quality wasn’t degraded by cutting the cord since Feb 2018. But I do know there’s no technical reason you can’t stream sports at the same or better resolution-frame rate than cable or satellite. Most cable and satellite broadcasts are still 720p60 or less including ABC, Fox, ESPN with some 1080p in select cities including CBS and NBC. OTOH you can stream at 4K with Netflix, Hulu, Prime, Disney+, YouTube and others. Native resolution determines picture quality, upscaling does not equal content shot at higher native resolution-frame rate e.g. 4K. All this assumes your TV is capable of higher resolution-frame rates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p

Amazon set me back a good 3 years in cord cutting. About 5 or 6 years ago they started simulcasting NFL Thursday football, so I was switching between that and cable. It was awful. I swore off streaming for 3 years.

Then I started checking a few things and noticed an improvement. 2 years ago when I tried both Hulu+Live and YTTV, the improvement was great. YTTV's presentation of NHL hockey was perfect for 720. Their frame rate was really good. Hulu+Live a little less.

What YTTV did really well (and probably still does) was extend the recording of games in overtime. I never had to worry about missing the end of a game like I did when I recorded cable.

YTTV was also adding value during the games such as stats, key plays and that kind of thing.

But then it all crashed down when both services dumped the RSNs.

 

[Luvtoride]

And just as we thought the cost savings of streaming vs cable is one of the reasons….

Netflix announced its first price bump in North America since October 2020, which is a tough break for whoever's Netflix account you're using.

The details for US customers:

The basic plan is going up by $1 to $9.99/month.
The standard plan (the company’s most popular) is being raised by $1.50 to $15.49.
The premium plan is increasing by $2 to $19.99.

Add it to the inflation pile!

 

[GTFan]

The problem with streaming live sports is the picture quality is very inferior to cable and satellite.

I don't think that's true with DirecTV Stream (formerly AT&T TV).