Will streaming services take over?

[explanade]

Streaming services already have hundreds of millions of subscribers combined, world wide.

In the US alone, Netflix and Disney + probably have numbers approaching 100 million.

Maybe more combined or maybe each of them are well north of 50 million.

There are two kinds of streaming, one replicating your cable TV channels and one where they offer exclusive shows and movies where a lot of cable TV subscribers have to subscribe to get access to this exclusive content.

I think the latter services are going to dominate if they're not already. I don't think Netflix is necessarily making huge profits but they have huge revenues and are turning most of that money over to make new content.

For people who want 4K HDR content, you can only get it through streaming. We won't see 4K on OTA or cable for a long time.

In a couple of years, streaming services may offer 4K NFL games. Amazon will start to stream the Thursday Night games and they could offer 4K.

There is not enough economic incentive for local TV stations to offer 4K broadcasts and the networks are not in a hurry either. Nor are cable TV companies going to put too many 4K channels on their systems.

However, cable TV companies have monopolies over Internet in most markets. Somehow, 5G for home was going to disrupt that but the pandemic has disrupted that. Or maybe it was a pipe dream all along.

So cable TV is already dependent on cable Internet for their profits, not TV service.

Thus they will still be in the game if cord-cutting accelerates.

 

[youbet]

"Cable companies" are acquiring content, Comcast already owns NBCUniversal and they're promoting Peacock. Why would they do that if they wanted to keep us all locked into cable? Disney owns ABC and ESPN, and they've spun off ESPN+. Just two examples.

It's easy to mix what it means to be a "cable company" and a streaming provider. For example, right now I stream and also have Comcast cable. I'm sitting here watching the Bears game streaming it from Comcast via my Firestick. It's being broadcast on local WFLD TV which I have access to via my Comcast cable connection, Comcast streaming or OTA. If I didn't have Comcast, I'd have to watch it OTA or subscribe to some other streaming source of the game.

BTW, when I say that "I stream," I don't pay for any streaming services other than Prime (which we have whether we stream or not), so I pay for Comcast cable and stream everything I can for free.

So, is Comcast a "cable company" since you can subscribe and stream their content without a cable box or even a cable running to your home? Are they a "streamer?" Or are they some hybrid?

 

[youbet]

The past few days I've been researching T-Mobile internet vs upgrading our Spectrum cable internet.

So now that we are evaluating our current cable internet, we are also considering changing to T-Mobile Internet as a possible option. One hesitation is that we would lose our current email addresses if we leave Spectrum. But we could handle that if the change is worth it.

Give me your thoughts....

Is the T-Mobile internet plan for unlimited data? Can you take the devise with you when you travel and use it from anyplace? That would be a big plus for us.

 

[MichaelB]

It's easy to mix what it means to be a "cable company" and a streaming provider. For example, right now I stream and also have Comcast cable. I'm sitting here watching the Bears game streaming it from Comcast via my Firestick. It's being broadcast on local WFLD TV which I have access to via my Comcast cable connection, Comcast streaming or OTA. If I didn't have Comcast, I'd have to watch it OTA or subscribe to some other streaming source of the game.

BTW, when I say that "I stream," I don't pay for any streaming services other than Prime (which we have whether we stream or not), so I pay for Comcast cable and stream everything I can for free.

So, is Comcast a "cable company" since you can subscribe and stream their content without a cable box or even a cable running to your home? Are they a "streamer?" Or are they some hybrid?

Streaming, cable, hybrid. If it’s a Bears game you’re watching, I call it suffering ...

 

[JoeWras]

For people who want 4K HDR content, you can only get it through streaming. We won't see 4K on OTA or cable for a long time.

In a couple of years, streaming services may offer 4K NFL games. Amazon will start to stream the Thursday Night games and they could offer 4K.

There is not enough economic incentive for local TV stations to offer 4K broadcasts and the networks are not in a hurry either. Nor are cable TV companies going to put too many 4K channels on their systems.

I think 4k is the macguffin in this story. A lot of people think they need it. A lot of companies think they need to supply it. But ultimately I'm not so sure.

Look at what happened with music. The record and hardware companies put massive R&D into high end systems and content with beautiful sound. It only marginally drove sales. Then along comes Apple and their iPod (and napster, to be sure), and suddenly everybody doesn't give a whit about sound quality. mp3 is good enough. It is all about content and ease of delivery.

Streaming has the content, but the delivery can still use some work. Some streaming devices are better than others. And apps definitely differ. Cable is still ahead with their rich remote and box, but not for long. In the 3 years I've been paying attention to streaming, the delivery experience has improved tremendously and will continue to do so. Despite this patchy user interface experience, streaming has a huge advantage over cable in one important way: multiple devices with ease, including mobile phones.

However, cable TV companies have monopolies over Internet in most markets. Somehow, 5G for home was going to disrupt that but the pandemic has disrupted that. Or maybe it was a pipe dream all along.

So cable TV is already dependent on cable Internet for their profits, not TV service.

Thus they will still be in the game if cord-cutting accelerates.

Yes, many of them have pivoted to internet and even have their own streaming services. They have to.

5G is a story unto itself. My last job (2016) involved working at the front end of the 5G roll out, and the whispers we heard from the big telcos was that it was at least 5 years away, probably 7. That's rolling out true to those predictions. 5G still hasn't reached near its potential, but in about 3 years, it should catch fire. (By this I don't mean the availability of 5G, I mean the pervasiveness of it at noticeable improved speeds and reliability.)

 

[youbet]

Streaming, cable, hybrid. If it’s a Bears game you’re watching, I call it suffering ...

Well, it sure was again today!! That's why I was reading and typing here, doing a few things for DW and watching at the same time! They've been sooooo bad!

 

[Car-Guy]

As a longtime DirecTV subscriber, this has not been my experience. I have always found their customer support to be quite helpful. Over the course of 20+ years, I can count on one hand the number of times that DTV customer support has been frustrating or lacking in some way. I pretty much always get the help I need and feel well taken care of as a customer.

We too were very early DirecTV subscribers (mid to late 90's) and their service/support was outstanding in the early years. We haven't had to use their customer services very often in the past 10 years but when we have, it's gone downhill badly in my experaince. But as they say, YMMV.

 

[kgtest]

Other than news, streaming is about all we watch these days.

Have not had a land line telephone for over 10 years. Prior to that we, for quite a number of years, we did not use our land line provider for long distance calls. We used an alternate supplier because the rates were about 80 percent less!

Cable TV in our area are pricing themselves out of the market. They are trying to bundle with internet and cell service in order to remain competitive and retain their base.

People are more tech savvy and can access data about competing offers quickly and easily.

Our daughter called us in late December with suggestion about how we could cut our cable bill and increase our internet service. She had just done so. And what to say. Lots of competition in our market at the moment.

Called the provided and said we wanted to cancel...as per daughter's script. Twenty minutes later our monthly costs had been reduced from $180. to $82 month and our internet service was enhanced.

I've never had a landline I am a gen X though so I had a cell phone when I was 16 or 17. I remember back then only the "privileged" kids had there very own cell phone and service. I laugh that we have jacks in our home for landline, and honestly it bothers me to look at those.

As for streaming, I've only paid for Netflix consistently, but had a trial for Disney+ for free and cancelled and had a Hulu+ free trial and cancelled and even had a YouTube TV trial for a little bit that was super cheap the first 3 months then cancelled.

I like the Mandalorian / Boba Fett content on Disney+, I like Billions which is on Showtime+, Ozarks comes in on Netflix and looking forward to the new season and I've watched some documentaries on PBS Masterpiece.

If I paid for all of these all year it would be 13.99 + 7.99+ 10.99 +5.99 + 9.92(prime) = $48.88 a month or $587/year. As it stands we pay for Prime and Netflix and sub in/out the other services to binge watch, then cancel. We would have Prime regardless for the expedited shipping and better pricing. And we have had Netflix ever since it put Blockbuster out of business with its DVD rentals (before RedBox was a thing).

Our new smart TV has a lot of free streaming content, but often gets interrupted with commercials. There are a few exceptions. Its hard to name all of those services since each TV brand seems to have there own flavor of free streaming channels, and then I also use Plex the free version which also offers additional streaming channels. Content overload. Most of it is garbage. I'm not a sports watcher. I can name on 2 hands the number of TV series I actually got into and semi-binge watched my entire life. The kids LOVE Netflix shows as does DW. That is our most streamed service.

 

[rodi]

Is the T-Mobile internet plan for unlimited data? Can you take the devise with you when you travel and use it from anyplace? That would be a big plus for us.

I don't think so. We have tmobile phone - but our area isn't built out by tmobile 5G internet. The website has you enter your zip to see if your area can get it.

 

[rodi]

I don't think so. We have tmobile phone - but our area isn't built out by tmobile 5G internet. The website has you enter your zip to see if your area can get it.

Oops - realized I answered confusingly.

- The tmobile is unlimited data.
- The tmobile 5G internet is *not* available everywhere.

 

[explanade]

It's easy to mix what it means to be a "cable company" and a streaming provider. For example, right now I stream and also have Comcast cable. I'm sitting here watching the Bears game streaming it from Comcast via my Firestick. It's being broadcast on local WFLD TV which I have access to via my Comcast cable connection, Comcast streaming or OTA. If I didn't have Comcast, I'd have to watch it OTA or subscribe to some other streaming source of the game.

BTW, when I say that "I stream," I don't pay for any streaming services other than Prime (which we have whether we stream or not), so I pay for Comcast cable and stream everything I can for free.

So, is Comcast a "cable company" since you can subscribe and stream their content without a cable box or even a cable running to your home? Are they a "streamer?" Or are they some hybrid?

Yes I have Comcast and use their Stream app a lot, both in home and when I travel.

Technically it's similar tech to the streaming done by Netflix, Hulu, Disney +, Apple +.

But those are just streaming cable TV channels.


Peacock is a streamer, which carries mostly NBC programming. But they do also have exclusive rights to shows like The Office, which is still a popular streaming show, and some original content.

But they've not invested a lot in original content so signs are that they have less than 500k paying customers. They give subscriptions free to active Comcast customers but they haven't signed up many non Comcast customers.

 

[explanade]

I think 4k is the macguffin in this story. A lot of people think they need it. A lot of companies think they need to supply it. But ultimately I'm not so sure.

Most people don't care that much about 4K or higher picture and audio quality.

"Good enough" is the principle that drives the market. Relatively low bitrate MP3 won over all better audio codecs.

And the evidence is that most people are fine with 720p at low bitrates from their cable TV subscriptions than seeking out 4K content.

Not only that, people are fine with the $400-500 LCD TVs they can get at Walmart than the big OLED TVs which have much better picture quality but has list prices of $3000 and more.

So the proof is that good enough, based on 20 year old HDTV standards, is what people will pay for.

Even people who have the money for better TVs and streaming devices, like those on ER, will more often settle for lower priced options.

 

[captain3d]

Netflix DVD only here! I bet most people don’t even know that is an option.

The problem with streaming is that movie rights negotiations for streaming is limited and the choice is bad. DVD has legacy rights that make many more movies available on Netflix DVD than on Streaming.

The irony is that I add them to the queue then wifey gets them out of the library for free. So Netflix seems to have become a movie list more than a movie supplier for us.

 

[explanade]

Surprised Netflix is still mailing DVDs.

They are not going to end that, because streaming is where their bread is buttered now, with the biggest library of original content anywhere.

 

[Car-Guy]

Surprised Netflix is still mailing DVDs.

We're still getting their DVD's... Amazing that they can get them to us in two days consistently and sometimes it seems even quicker. Pretty good deal they have with USPS.

 

[explanade]

What conditions are the discs in and do they have the latest releases?

 

[Car-Guy]

What conditions are the discs in and do they have the latest releases?

The disks seem to be fine (all playable without problems).... Clearly some have "been around the block" but just as many are brand new... Since I don't keep up with the "latest" releases, I can't say how well they do there.

 

[explanade]

Yeah I'm just wondering how much new inventory they're adding or just letting existing inventory go until disc-only subscribers end their subscriptions, by not replenishing the discs.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^They are still adding new content. Even many old titles come to us on new disks... (Maybe we are the only ones watching the old stuff so they are still on new disks.) .

 

[captain3d]

Try to find any Oscar nominated movie for the last 10 years on streaming and tell me how many you find. Maybe things got better.

Original content only available on Streaming is the other side of the coin. But I have activated streaming three times in the last 10 years and so far have been happy to deactivate again.

I have a problem with the endless searching for something to watch on streaming and reminds me of the onion story about the Netflix unlimited browsing subscription.

 

[captain3d]

To answer my own question as I was curious… I did my own search of Oscar movies for Netflix streaming (Had to use a third-party website) and nothing is available where they are all available on DVD.

So yes the DVD service has a better supply of new movies than streaming including any new releases and the disc quality has been perfectly fine.

Apparently less than 1% of Netflix business is DVD.

It is odd that when I log into my DVD-based Netflix I cannot search what is available streaming. If you have a streaming only account can you search for a movie that is available on DVD? Can someone search for these to see if Netflix tells you they are available on DVD.

Parasite
Greenbook
The shape of water
Moonlight
Spotlight
Birdman
12 years a slave
Argo

All available on DVD.

 

[JoeWras]

To answer my own question as I was curious… I did my own search of Oscar movies for Netflix streaming (Had to use a third-party website) and nothing is available where they are all available on DVD.

So yes the DVD service has a better supply of new movies than streaming including any new releases and the disc quality has been perfectly fine.

Apparently less than 1% of Netflix business is DVD.

It is odd that when I log into my DVD-based Netflix I cannot search what is available streaming. If you have a streaming only account can you search for a movie that is available on DVD? Can someone search for these to see if Netflix tells you they are available on DVD.

Parasite
Greenbook
The shape of water
Moonlight
Spotlight
Birdman
12 years a slave
Argo

All available on DVD.

Yes, Netflix streaming is definitely leaning toward own content. The other services are hanging onto their Oscar movies. Netflix is also losing series (example: Star Treks) to other streamers. Don't expect a one-stop service from any streamer. Disney is hanging onto Parasite, for example, and further keeping it exclusive to Hulu and not showing on Disney. So sometimes it is exclusivity within exclusivity.

I absolutely hated the fact I would need more than one streamer to see stuff. But I've come to accept it, especially if I can get it for $0.99.

But DVD in the mail isn't the worst thing in the world either. I hear there is still a pretty good fan base for good old Netflix by mail.

Anybody can search their library here: https://dvd.netflix.com/AllGenresList

 

[explanade]

The rights to stream movies and shows expire and new contracts are signed, which often results in movies moving from one service to another.

It’s a lucrative business so they can monetize a movie or a show for decades, just by selling to different outlets every few years.

You can look up shows and movies on justwatch.com to see where a particular show or movie is available.

As long as entities which own a given movie can sell to the highest bidder, there will be several services around, though there will be some consolidation too.

Copyright laws were changed after heavy lobbying to be extended for decades, to protect these revenue streams.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

For the TV Channels we like to watch + 600 mbps Internet from Comcast. HGTV, MotorTrend, Food, Discovery, PBS, Nat Geo, CNN, MSNBC, BBC America, SCIFI, Bloomberg, the local News/Jeopardy Channel and a couple of others, all in HD we pay less than if we had a third party internet and any ONE of the major streaming channels, we pay just over $105 a month. It is not that cost effective to cut the cord anymore.

 

[Midpack]

For the TV Channels we like to watch + 600 mbps Internet from Comcast. HGTV, MotorTrend, Food, Discovery, PBS, Nat Geo, CNN, MSNBC, BBC America, SCIFI, Bloomberg, the local News/Jeopardy Channel and a couple of others, all in HD we pay less than if we had a third party internet and any ONE of the major streaming channels, we pay just over $105 a month. It is not cost effective to cut the cord anymore.

That’s false as a blanket statement.

As posted many times before, it depends on how many TVs you have, and whether or not you’d have internet service irrespective of TV. We pay $70/mo for Hulu+Live (just increased) and we have 3 TVs. We would have internet regardless, we pay $50/mo for that and I could drop to a lower cost/bandwidth tier for $35. So we pay $120/mo. Spectrum is the cheapest option for us and that would cost about $135/mo (more after the teaser rates expire) here for internet and HDTV, DVR on 3 TVs. All other cable/satellite options in my area would cost even more than Spectrum.

It may well not be cost effective to cut the cord if you’re a single TV household, especially if you don’t otherwise want/need internet service.