Why are Some (Most?) Dentists Con Artists?

[ocean view]

In the past year I have lost confidence in my dentist of nearly 30 years. About a year ago I noticed that my upper front teeth would feel loose and wiggly (!) every morning as I ate breakfast, but by bedtime they were normal. I am a grinder/clencher and have a night guard provided by the same dentist. The night guard I was using was a small appliance that only covered the teeth that were now loose. When I consulted the dentist they said that the style of appliance might be the cause. They also noted that my bite was no longer good. It was too “open” and I should consult an orthodontist before we order a new style of night guard.

The orthodontist said that the small night guard was the cause of the loose teeth, in effect bruising my gums every night since the grinding pressure was focused on just a few teeth. It was also the cause of my bite problems because it prevented my jaws from aligning properly. And almost most concerning was that that style of night guard was a choking risk and should not have been used (I’d had that style for 12+ years). Ortho said that there was nothing to be gained by orthodontia.

I returned to the dentist and ordered a new traditional night guard that covers all of my upper teeth and better distributes the pressure. It was $700! It’s been 9 month and my loose teeth are now better. The last time I saw the dentist they again asked if I was going to have orthodontia, seemingly clueless that they were the cause of the problem.

It also ticks me off that post-pandemic cleanings now cost more, but are conducted in less than 20 minutes. That’s 20 minutes total inside the building, not just time in the chair.

After reading the other posts and issues I think I need to cautiously find a new dentist.

 

[Koolau]

I wonder how much of these issues is related to the limited insurance one can get for dental work. The "checks" that are in place with other medical insurance are not prevalent for dentists, so it can seem more like the "wild west" when it comes to their service.

So far the only affordable insurance we have found is essentially pay-as-you-go. You pay so much a month, and for that, you get 2 cleanings, and X% off any routine problems (fillings, crowns, etc.) BUT with a maximum. What that does for many folks is to "smooth" the costs out. But any really big issues, say one crown with one route canal, goes over the limit very quickly.

So, we go naked. I had to replace a bridge after 24 years and it cost almost $4K. But routine work at my dentist is fairly reasonable.

Last year, I got a filling and ended up with sensitivity in that tooth. My dentist had me back half a dozen times (no charge) and treated the tooth until the sensitivity was gone. There are still some good dentists out there.

I'm sorry you had such an egregious example of bad dentistry.

 

[ncbill]

On the other hand, sometimes you do need to listen to your dentist. The dentist I had been going to for many many years retired and a new dentist bought the practice. The first time I saw the new dentist he did X-rays and said I had a cavity under one of my old fillings and that I needed a crown. I was skeptical and decided to get a second opinion. A few months passes and before I got the second opinion the tooth in question started really hurting and I had an abscess. I got an emergency appointment with the dentist and ended up having to take a bunch of antibiotics and had to have a root canal. I probably could have avoided all this if I had listened to the dentist and got the crown when he recommend it.

Had the same thing happen when my old dentist sold his practice.

The new, young guy said I needed a crown on a premolar, and conveniently, their office had a machine to make crowns (sounds like an old impact printer)

Got a second opinion from an older, more conservative dentist I knew socially who said just leave it alone for now...switched to his practice.

I eventually did need a root canal & crown on that tooth...around a decade later.

Given its location, both dentists told me I'd eventually need an implant, but it's several years & so far so good.

And about periodontal work like deep scaling...all the people I've known who needed that type of work were smokers...yet another incentive to quit!

 

[RetMD21]

The new, young guy said I needed a crown on a premolar, and conveniently, their office had a machine to make crowns (sounds like an old impact printer)

I am always a little skeptical of the guy who says he can do it all in house.

 

[Lakedog]

Several years ago, I found a good dentist that I like and trust. She told me on the initial visit that she was not one to push clients to have unnecessary work done (like replacing a bunch of old fillings that were in good shape).

I did have an old filling come loose a couple of days prior to my scheduled cleaning/exam last week. Being her last patient of the day, she said that there was no reason for me to have to come back so she stayed a few minutes over to replace the filling. This made me appreciate her even more.

 

[JBTX]

For any type of oral surgery I’d go to a specialist. Last couple of root canals I’ve gone to specialist.

I think they remove wisdom teeth as preventative if they grow in crooked and impact teeth or gums and it gets harder when older. Of course if you let them go there is a chance that you won’t notice.

I switched dentists a couple of times because me and kids may walk out with recommendation for 10+ fillings. Finally found one, actually back at the first place, who understands my concerns and makes sure we only do dental work that is needed.

 

[athena53]

For any type of oral surgery I’d go to a specialist. Last couple of root canals I’ve gone to specialist.

My first 2 root canals were done by my dentist in NJ- I had no idea some referred that work out. Fortunately, he was fresh out of dental school and excellent. He'd been hand-picked by our previous dentist, who retired.

My current dentist has a favorite endodontist so that's where I've gone- he once worked me in on an emergency at 7 AM- I was leaving for India in a few days. My dentist later commented on how great the endo was at making only the tiniest hole in the surface of the tooth to remove the roots- he said he'd had some patients come back after work by an "in-network" endodontist who bored such large holes he had a problem getting a permanent filling to stick.

 

[Kook]

My dentist sees the same gray spot every visit. Each time he says, "we need to fill that". This has been been going on for 10 years with no issues. I haven't gotten it filled.

After my last visit, I see that he is now also doing sleep studies and botox.

I guess I prefer my dentist to focus on teeth, rather than insomnia and facial fillers. Seems kinda like a carnival worker.

Time to find a new dentist....

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

Name me any profession that doesn’t have good, bad and average practioners? They’re all still people after all, some are skilled and conscientious, some are definitely not and everything in between. That’s life. We used to be able to trust some professions, not any more sadly.

+1
The discussion is pretty much applicable to mechanics, plumbers, financial advisors, vets, contractors, real estate agents, etc, etc.
Once we've found someone we can trust, we don't mind paying a bit extra. We don't want to get ripped off of course but don't feel a need to fight for every last penny.

Specific to dentists: I had horrible dental experiences over the years which angers me to think about. When I started dating the missus, she recommended I try her dentist, which I did. One of the best decisions ever! No pressure. Just "Here are the things that are a potential concern. Let's monitor them and we'll check on them at your next cleaning or if they start to give you problems." He was pretty bang on with his assessments. He has since handed over his practice to his daughter who is fortunately as good as him in all ways. Heck, they're part of our xmas card mailing list each year.

 

[RobbieB]

I had Delta Dental with a previous employer decades ago. I thought they sucked then.

So after a few more we got our guy. Who has proven both honest and competent.

Now with Medicare Advantage I get Delta Dental free. I'd rather pay thanks -

 

[Koolau]

A few years back, I went to my dentist with pain in a tooth. He confirmed that the tooth was dying and needed a root canal. He told me that he could not complete a root canal as he did not have the specialized equipment to do so. But, he could do enough to take away the pain. He stayed after on a Saturday to do a partial root canal. He charged $150 for about 2 hours work. To complete the root canal, I had to go to a specialist a couple of weeks later. The specialist gave no discount for the w*rk my dentist had completed. For 10 minutes, the specialist charged $1350! Ugh!

 

[harllee]

$1350 for a root canal is a bargain.

 

[Koolau]

$1350 for a root canal is a bargain.

Perhaps now. This was about 7 years ago. YMMV

 

[tenant13]

My worst dental experience: I broke a molar on a bagel and had to seek help on Saturday. I went in to a shiny new office across the street and was able to clean everything and install a crown on top of the broken tooth BUT at the cost of removing the tooth right next to the broken one and installing the SECOND crown. Something about the original tooth being crooked and growing into the other tooth and causing a huge a problem which could only be solved by two crowns. OK, fine. That was around 5k.

Not even two years have passed since that costly bagel accident when one of the crowns suddenly crumbled into pieces. I go in, they look at it and say that I'll need a root canal and a new crown - this is "diagnosed" without an x-ray. Apparently there's not enough of the actual tooth left under the old crown to attach a new one. Is there a warranty on the old one? Nope. Can I at least get a discount? Well, maybe... but before we talk about it can I please sign here (they shove a bunch of papers in my hands). At that point I'm already a bit pissed so I get suspicious. Rightfully so: it was kind of a blanket agreement that would force me to pay undetermined yet amount for the estimated work whether the work is finished or not. IN FULL. At that point I got pretty rude, got up, and stormed out never to come back. There might have been some f-bombs thrown at them on my way out...

A week or two later I found a dentist who refused to root canal alive tooth and managed to build and attach a crown to whatever I still had there. So well that once she glued the crown in she didn't even have to touch it. It fit perfectly and still does. This was six years ago.

 

[Helen]

My mother took my dad to the dentist. The dentist said my dad needed to have three teeth pulled and a new bridge. My dad was 93 years old!!!

She found a new dentist.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

This thread hit a nerve with me (Ba Dum Tsh). Over the many decades that I've been to dentists, I've experienced a standard distribution of dentists, with respect to a) integrity and b) competency. I'm sure many of the dentists were both a) and b). However, my last dentist asked me which third world dentist did some of my dental work. I've never had dental work done outside the US, so I didn't know what to say. And a few years ago, after extensive research online, I picked a dentist who ended up clearly on the wrong end of the a) category. He had an arm-long list of work he wanted to do, so I asked for my x-rays and took them to another dentist, who validated my suspicions. A year later I found that dentist's license was revoked/suspended. So now I'm due for a checkup, and need to pick a dentist again (we just moved). I guess I'll try the nearby dental school for a change.

 

[travelover]

$1350 for a root canal is a bargain.

My dog had a root canal and two teeth pulled and the bill was just under $4K. Of course, about $1K of that was for anesthesia, but still, ouch.

 

[jpeter1093]

Any of the professions: Medical, Dental, Law...is as much an art as a science. Realize that and you'll be ahead of the game

 

[Time2]

I had a dentist that replaced a large cracked filling in a molar, but did a poor job of keeping the contact with the other tooth where it was. So I had a gap between the teeth, I complained and was told that will keep you flossing. Shortly after that I started going to the local dental hygienist school and having them take care of my teeth. (this was stupid, only did it because my wife wanted me to). So after 1-1/2 or 2 years, the dentist at the school did his check and said you need to go to a dentist and get those two teeth fixed.
The bases had so much decay that I ended up with two crowns. And it all started with a poor job on replacement filling.

 

[kcowan]

My dentist accepts that I don't want a Cadillac/Mercedes solution. So we have an understanding that I will come in once a year for a checkup. No Xrays please.

I use a Waterpik and OralB and get my gums done twice a year. I realize this later part is just insurance.

My dental experience started early badly. Things were fine until our trusted dentist died suddenly at 80.

 

[Koolau]

Any of the professions: Medical, Dental, Law...is as much an art as a science. Realize that and you'll be ahead of the game

Yeah, just changed cardiologist and ophthalmologist - both changed all my meds around and wanted different tests performed than the last person. Doesn't inspire confidence. ART is the right word. YMMV

 

[JoeWras]

Yeah, just changed cardiologist and ophthalmologist - both changed all my meds around and wanted different tests performed than the last person. Doesn't inspire confidence. ART is the right word. YMMV

Or the new docs are just swayed by the perks their pharma reps give them.

 

[JoeWras]

A quote from a Nextdoor neighbor. Sound familiar?

I got a groupon coupon for a dental cleaning and xray. Went to the dentist and they said that I needed a deep teeth cleaning, and that they couldn't do the regular cleaning that came with the coupon, but only the deep cleaning one, and charged me $400.00 for the deep cleaning. Do you think I got scammed

 

[Koolau]

Or the new docs are just swayed by the perks their pharma reps give them.

I've seen that happen in the past with other doctors, but in this case, the drugs were virtually the same price and had long since become generic.

Now, my Cardiologist did just offer me (and I accepted) a new, brand name drug for off-label use. It's costing me over $200/3 months but I think it's helping me, according to my BP numbers. We'll see and YMMV.

 

[Walt34]

I just had a dental checkup/cleaning yesterday and made a point to tell the dentist about this thread and that I was appreciative that he doesn't do any of the stuff I'm reading about here. I've been lucky with dentists I guess, I haven't had any of those experiences. But it's good to know what to look out for in the future.