The Electric Vehicle Thread

[Fermion]

I am still not convinced that a lot of electric vehicle owners actually understand that electricity actually has to be generated somewhere. I wonder if the positive attitude would be the same if you used gasoline containers you found in random people's garages along the way?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-owner-says-she-made-133106637.html


"Although the pumps had been removed long ago and the building was vacant, the electricity still worked and there was an exterior outlet we could use," Goforth wrote of the gas station. "It was only a standard 120V outlet, so we would be trickle charging, not supercharging, but that was sufficient to more than replace, overnight, whatever energy we used on our daily excursions around the Monument. I loved the poetic justice of recharging our EV at a defunct gas station!"

 

[Koolau]

Interesting article today.

Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/27/tes...ange-complaints.html?__source=androidappshare

Interesting and LONG article.



Our son loves his Mod. 3 but he would agree that the miles available rarely turn out to be correct. Pulling his extremely small trailer, he stopped about every 100 miles to charge IIRC.

 

[misanman]

Using F150 Lightening for home backup power

I've mentioned before that DS1 has a F150 Lightening. One of the benefits was to be able to use the Lightening battery to power the house when utility power is not available. So this happened last week but the process didn't work correctly given the charging setup at his home. My understanding is fuzzy but it appears to be an issue with both home and vehicle having a "bonded neutral". Apparently the solution is more electrical gear installed in the home. I figure that someone here will know what this issue is and can shed some light on it if it is of interest.

 

[Koolau]

I've mentioned before that DS1 has a F150 Lightening. One of the benefits was to be able to use the Lightening battery to power the house when utility power is not available. So this happened last week but the process didn't work correctly given the charging setup at his home. My understanding is fuzzy but it appears to be an issue with both home and vehicle having a "bonded neutral". Apparently the solution is more electrical gear installed in the home. I figure that someone here will know what this issue is and can shed some light on it if it is of interest.

Yeah, you're likely to need a qualified electrician. Also, likely, you need a main switch that isolates YOUR power from the line - so no one w*rking on the line gets electrocuted. We had to do all this stuff when we installed a generator to run our house. YMMV

 

[Popeye]

Interesting and LONG article.



Our son loves his Mod. 3 but he would agree that the miles available rarely turn out to be correct. Pulling his extremely small trailer, he stopped about every 100 miles to charge IIRC.

All I could think of while reading the article was the Gas gauge in my old Pontiac. When full it would take forever the get down to 3/4 tank level. Then it would drop like a rock! Luckily it would go a good bit below “E” before actually running out of gas. It seems like this is the modern equivalent taken to a new level.

 

[ls99]

Looks like gas vehicles are subsidizing EVs at Ford.
I did not read the article, paywall. The headline gives the main point.

Ford expects to bleed $4.5 billion on electric cars this year, but it makes enough on everything else that it might not matter
https://fortune.com/2023/07/28/ford-earnings-report-q2-2023-ev-losses/

 

[Montecfo]

Looks like gas vehicles are subsidizing EVs at Ford.
I did not read the article, paywall. The headline gives the main point.

Ford expects to bleed $4.5 billion on electric cars this year, but it makes enough on everything else that it might not matter
https://fortune.com/2023/07/28/ford-earnings-report-q2-2023-ev-losses/

I thought the big takeaway, other than massive loss, was moving to hybrids as a stepping stone. They say this is what the market is telling them.

I think Koolau and maybe a couple of folks said that here. It also appears to validate Toyota's strategy.

 

[DallasGuy]

Is there any way we can get this forum back to just discussing various EV's instead of hating on them? Arguing whether they're good or bad or whether there's a market for them is kind of a waste of time. We can argue about these topics until we're blue in the face. Over in the ICE forum they don't argue about the same stuff but instead discuss different vehicles. The people here that keep slamming EV's, wreck it for the rest of us.

And like I've said before, if you don't want or don't like EV's DON'T GET ONE! They're not for everyone....we all know that.

How about just sticking to talking about EV news, new models, etc.?

 

[Montecfo]

I saw facts and info shared. Did not see hating or bashing.

 

[DallasGuy]

I saw facts and info shared. Did not see hating or bashing.

And that's the problem...people seem to have their own "facts".

So no one else is tired of the constant arguing that goes on in this forum? Maybe I'm in the minority. Sorry.

 

[Montecfo]

Articles about EVs linked. Not sure why that should be a problem.

Hey why not simply post some articles you wish to and add to the discussion?

 

[DallasGuy]

Articles about EVs linked. Not sure why that should be a problem.

Hey why not simply post some articles you wish to and add to the discussion?

I created another forum thread called "Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion" for people to discuss EV models. I'll give that a shot for now.

 

[explanade]

What percentage of NYC apartment dwellers own cars?

They'd have to spend hundreds or thousands a month for parking in a garage in that case.

 

[ken830]

Is there any way we can get this forum back to just discussing various EV's instead of hating on them? Arguing whether they're good or bad or whether there's a market for them is kind of a waste of time. We can argue about these topics until we're blue in the face. Over in the ICE forum they don't argue about the same stuff but instead discuss different vehicles. The people here that keep slamming EV's, wreck it for the rest of us.

And like I've said before, if you don't want or don't like EV's DON'T GET ONE! They're not for everyone....we all know that.

How about just sticking to talking about EV news, new models, etc.?

And that's the problem...people seem to have their own "facts".

So no one else is tired of the constant arguing that goes on in this forum? Maybe I'm in the minority. Sorry.

100% on the same page as you. These "articles" that keep coming up have the slimmest amount of "facts" and just make up stuff in the headlines. It's nothing new, but it keeps bringing up old mis-information and mis-characterizations and get clicks. It would be nice if we can just discuss them once and be over with it, but they keep coming. I'm too tired to even engage anymore. I just got back from a vacation so I missed a lot of the last two weeks here -- probably better for my health.

 

[DallasGuy]

100% on the same page as you. These "articles" that keep coming up have the slimmest amount of "facts" and just make up stuff in the headlines. It's nothing new, but it keeps bringing up old mis-information and mis-characterizations and get clicks. It would be nice if we can just discuss them once and be over with it, but they keep coming. I'm too tired to even engage anymore. I just got back from a vacation so I missed a lot of the last two weeks here -- probably better for my health.

fyi. I created another forum thread called "Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion" for anyone that wants to just discuss EV's models.

 

[skyking1]

Of course not. Hawaii is anything but representative of the USA. We often say, its the USA but it's not America. My point is that some areas - Hawaii being one of them is not as well suited for electrification as others. SFHs are not nearly as common because they are wildly expensive. IIRC the average cost of a SFH recently topped 1 mil. And although Hawaii is the state most likely to be a solar electric state, there are practical considerations that have retarded solar. I think renewables are around 10%. The remaining is primarily oil (that used to be imported, primarily from Russia IIRC.)

I think that roughly 63% SFH is closer than the other figure of 67% SFH. Also, I live in an SFH on the mainland. But it has no available garage. Putting a charging station here, while possible would be immensely impractical. To get to it I would need to enter from the rear, through a locked fence and then drive over the lawn to the back of the house (where there is no entryway.) The front of the house is right on the street so other than throwing an extension cord out one of the windows, there would be no possibility of charging.

My point in all this: Even some SFH are not easily adapted to charging EVs. The street I live on, most people do have garages, though not all. Most are detached which means significant expense for wiring (and less convenience during charging.) The street that runs the opposite direction, most do not have garages and are on very small lots, making charging more problematic.

I have no idea what % of all SFHs are "easily" amenable to EV charging. If it's 50%, I would be surprised. I'm not saying you couldn't make them ready for charging, but it would cost a lot. YMMV

Using a 15 amp outlet, you can charge a tesla at about 3 miles per hour.
If you have a 30 mile drive every day, it will be fully charged in 10 hours.
That is any outlet. If it has a 20 amp breaker which is not uncommon, it is a bit faster.
So the idea that you must have a big infrastructure investment is not true for most drivers.
My work commute is 32 miles. My wife did 40 before the home office days.
Even if you tossed in the odd 80 mile day, your car would eventually recover.

https://www.gearprimer.com/automotive/how-long-does-it-take-to-charge-a-tesla/#:~:text=The%20Tesla%20Mobile%20Connector%20is,amp)%20that%20it's%20plugged%20into.

 

[Midpack]

I was aware that none of the Tesla models can deliver their EPA stated range in real world driving, most EV's don't in varying degrees. What I didn't realize was there are a few makes/models that deliver MORE than the published EPA range (Porsche Taycan)!

They will never be perfect because of all the variables, cold v hot, AC or not, city v highway, traffic v not, hills or not, etc. But I watched a video and the EPA is working to improve the EV range numbers they let manufacturers publish.

Just one source but complete list linked here https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html, but here's the top ten:

 

[Popeye]

And that's the problem...people seem to have their own "facts".

So no one else is tired of the constant arguing that goes on in this forum? Maybe I'm in the minority. Sorry.

There are many engineers on this site. They never get tired of arguing!

 

[Koolau]

All I could think of while reading the article was the Gas gauge in my old Pontiac. When full it would take forever the get down to 3/4 tank level. Then it would drop like a rock! Luckily it would go a good bit below “E” before actually running out of gas. It seems like this is the modern equivalent taken to a new level.

Yeah, I had an Olds that did the same thing. You really had to know your gas gauge back in the day. Otherwise, you might be walking.

 

[ls99]

And that's the problem...people seem to have their own "facts".

So no one else is tired of the constant arguing that goes on in this forum? Maybe I'm in the minority. Sorry.

Yes! In this case Ford concluded the fact that they are in the hole for $4.5 Billion on EVs. This year.

 

[Montecfo]

There are many engineers on this site. They never get tired of arguing!

Some facts seem less convenient than others.



I was pretty shocked to learn Tesla created a secret team to suppress driving range complaints according to CNBC.

Carried by most major news sites.

 

[Koolau]

What percentage of NYC apartment dwellers own cars?

They'd have to spend hundreds or thousands a month for parking in a garage in that case.

I think you make a good point about NYC, but A place like Honolulu where 60% live in high rise or other condos STILL have more than one car per household. After all, most family dwellings have more than one family - and they all have one or more w*rkers to be able to afford to live there. My point, NYC - relatively few cars per household - Honolulu MANY cars per household. Parking is a real problem too, but we manage to pack them in so that people can get to w*rk. Some areas (like Waikiki) have relatively fewer cars, but people amazingly find ways to stash their cars someplace. YMMV

 

[ken830]

Some facts seem less convenient than others.



I was pretty shocked to learn Tesla created a secret team to suppress driving range complaints according to CNBC.

Carried by most major news sites.

I'm so exhausted, but actually read the long-winded "article" and you'll see that nothing new was actually revealed. No proof or evidence that Tesla "created a 'secret team' to suppress range complaints" was actually presented anywhere in the "article". It's simply Tesla resolving customer's service appointments for a non-existent "problem" with their car/battery. Even the person with the "problem" at the beginning of the "article" concluded at the very end of the "article" that, "after doing more research into range estimates, he said he ultimately concluded there is nothing wrong with his car." Uhhh... Yeah... That was a lot of words to say nothing.... Ultimately, it looks like a ploy to deliver a negative headline -- hoping people won't actually read it to the end. Our journalism standards are lower than I thought were possible. Ugh.

 

[Montecfo]

Well sure. As long as each article which reports information you dislike can simply be dismissed.

I think folks in the market for Teslas, on the other hand, would care that Tesla "created a 'diversion team' to cancel range related appointments as possible" as the piece and several other sources state.

And that Tesla rigged the range estimating software to overstate the data seems notable.

And the piece does reference multiple sources for the information, including accounts of how the secret team celebrated cancelling appointments by putting phones on mute and striking a metal xylophone.

And that the idea of overstating driving range came from top management which, according to the piece did not respond to detailed questions on the reporting.

It does seem credible but I guess reasonable minds may differ.

 

[Zathras]

Well sure. As long as each article which reports information you dislike can simply be dismissed.

I think folks in the market for Teslas, on the other hand, would care that Tesla "created a 'diversion team' to cancel range related appointments as possible" as the piece and several other sources state.

It wasn't 'simply dismissed'.
He read the article, and quoted the conclusion of the original complainant, which was that nothing was wrong with the Tesla.

The article is full of cloak and dagger references. But there is nothing wrong with a company trying to avoid unnecessary service calls, and educating customers about the product.
There is nothing "secret" about the group. I am pretty sure one of my friends worked for the group in question (they did lots of things, but reviewing calls for service was one of them).