Russia's 'Internal Feud' Boiling Over

Still the top story on the news tonight! I always call it "sharing our ignorance.":cool:
 
Peter Zeihan explanation is that Progozhin was looking for a safe retirement strategy.

It also leaves Wagner group open to lawsuits and sanctions, drains all the embassies of their staff...

Zeihan laughed out loud at the comedy/farce.
 
indiajust said:
Peter Zeihan explanation is that Progozhin was looking for a safe retirement strategy.

It also leaves Wagner group open to lawsuits and sanctions, drains all the embassies of their staff...

Zeihan laughed out loud at the comedy/farce.
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Since this is all new to me, I'm not disagreeing with you, but on what do you base your thesis? If you care to amplify, thank you.:greetings10:
 
Peter Zeihan is my sole source. He won me over largely because of his strategic discussions of the war and its consequences. He has tried to explain the past several hundred years of strategic imperatives from the russian perspective.

I am drawn to such narratives personally. They provide a "lay of the land" understanding that helps me put context around individual behavior. More forest and less trees.

Up until the defection, russia hid behind plausible deniability with regard to Wagner. Putin's statement that Wagner is a state actor ended the denial, exposing all of Wagner assets and personnel to international seizure.

Zeihan likens it to selling all of US embassies to the Pinkerton security agency, so that Pinkerton can behave badly in plain sight, yet not face consequences as a non-state actor. But if Pinkerton goes bankrupt....? Can the embassy be seized in payment? Are Wagner employees tried as soldiers or criminals?

Zeihan sees the defection as a power move to the exit, something like Tony Soprano deciding he's done with murder and wants to retire peacefully. Another example might be Enders Game, where calculated attack and murder was the only viable exit strategy for Ender and Bean.

I worked in a company run by a management structure popularized by DataGeneral called "conflict management". It was a lizard pit. Any sign of weakness in public perception and you were ripped apart by the other lizards. The gist was to artificially create conflict and promote the winner, fire the loser. Even when that meant fistfights over deliberately double scheduled meeting rooms and speakers. It felt like something between Mad Max Thunderdome and the Highlander.

Zeihan suggests that Progozhin has lowered the perception of Putin power dominance. And he did so in front of all the other lizards. It won't end well for him.
 
Go-NoGo said:
Prigozhin's decision to leave the task on Putin unfinished will undoubtedly haunt him with regret. As the saying goes, "When you strike the king, you must kill him," attributed to Emerson, the notion of incomplete actions against a powerful figure carries severe consequences.

Machiavelli also emphasized the importance of inflicting a severe injury, stating that "if harm must be done, it should be so impactful that the person's retaliation becomes inconsequential".
Prigozhin's failure to deliver a conclusive blow may leave room for Putin's vengeance.

The chapter in this story is not quite over yet.
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And it appears that Prigozhin's has exited, ^stage left.

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is listed among passengers on board a plane that crashed north of Moscow, according to Russian state media.

The official Russian news agency TASS reported the Federal Air Transport Agency has launched an investigation into the crash of an Embraer aircraft, which occurred in the Tver region north-east of Moscow on Wednesday.

"An investigation has been launched into the crash of the Embraer aircraft, which occurred tonight in the Tver region. According to the list of passengers, among them is the name and surname of Yevgeny Prigozhin," the department noted.
Flight data showed an Embraer Legacy registered to Prigozhin at a cruising altitude over the Tver region after departing a Moscow airport, before data transmission of speed and altitude stopped.
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https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-08-23-23/index.html

if you can't get him to jump out of a window, make his aircraft do something similar.
 
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Looks like Progozhin is no more. News just in:

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is listed among passengers on board a plane that crashed north of Moscow, according to Russian state media.
 
All aboard dead. Russian anti-aircraft fire according to published reports.

All I can say is the arrogance of thinking you can make a "deal" with Putin?
 
easysurfer said:
Looks like Progozhin is no more. News just in:

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is listed among passengers on board a plane that crashed north of Moscow, according to Russian state media.
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However, does not verify Progozhin is dead.
This may be a way for him to save face in all this turmoil, and/or Putin wanted him to disappear permanently.
 
Healthy Lifestyle said:
However, does not verify Progozhin is dead.
This may be a way for him to save face in all this turmoil, and/or Putin wanted him to disappear permanently.
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Maybe he's an escape artist or perhaps one of his body doubles but my bet is Putin found the target this time.
 
Prigozhin in a plane crash? What a remarkable coincidence. How unfortunate for those traveling with him.

Here’s an excerpt from an Aug 11 FT interview with Christo Grozev, “lead Russia investigator at Bellingcat — the open-source investigative group that has exposed numerous Russian plots and assassinations”.

I said last January that Prigozhin would turn on Putin within six months — and it just fit within my time frame,” he says.
./.
He wants to see him dead. He can’t do that yet. In six months Prigozhin will either be dead or there will be a second coup. I’m agnostic between the two but I can’t see neither of these happening.”
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Another Prigozhin owned(?) aircraft was reportedly over Moscow at the same time. So there is a possibility he was on the other aircraft.

Reports that Prigozhin's second aircraft is currently maneuvering over Moscow
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Although with all the official outlets saying he's dead... if I where him and still alive I wouldn't make it known.
 
Montecfo said:
All aboard dead. Russian anti-aircraft fire according to published reports.

All I can say is the arrogance of thinking you can make a "deal" with Putin?
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I've heard that there were a couple of more "enemies list" folks on that plane as well. Can't accuse Putin of wasting his guided missiles. And apparently the plane belonged to Prigozhin. Gotta hand it to Putin...
 
Koolau said:
I've heard that there were a couple of more "enemies list" folks on that plane as well. Can't accuse Putin of wasting his guided missiles. And apparently the plane belonged to Prigozhin. Gotta hand it to Putin...
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Heard report that Wagner Group #2 leader was also onboard. Now what will happen to the group's commanders and soldiers: merge with Russia Army, go off into obscurity, or seek revenge?
 
FiveDriver said:
Prigozhin may be worth Millions.

But if I were Yevgeny.......I wouldn't book any top floor suites in Belarus. Putin's enemies have a habit of falling from high places.
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It took nearly 2 months to coerce the location of Prigozhin's Millions. But as with all of Putin's ex-friends.......he learned he couldn't fly.
 
FiveDriver said:
It took nearly 2 months to coerce the location of Prigozhin's Millions. But as with all of Putin's ex-friends.......he learned he couldn't fly.
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Prigozhin must have been an arrogant so-and-so to think he was gonna come out of this alive. Had I been him, I would have attempted an escape to the West and offer "Tales out of School" to whomever would guarantee his safety.
 
He may not have been on the plane but wants Putin to think he is dead.
 
Koolau said:
Prigozhin must have been an arrogant so-and-so to think he was gonna come out of this alive. Had I been him, I would have attempted an escape to the West and offer "Tales out of School" to whomever would guarantee his safety.
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They would have got him sooner or later.
 
It’s all good. Wagner is no friend of liberty. Prigozhin thought Russia wasn’t being aggressive ENOUGH in Ukraine.
 
Koolau said:
Prigozhin must have been an arrogant so-and-so to think he was gonna come out of this alive. Had I been him, I would have attempted an escape to the West and offer "Tales out of School" to whomever would guarantee his safety.
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Putin has killed a number of his rivals even when living in the West... and with Navalny tried to do so but failed... also failed on an old Ukraine leader..


I do not think there is any safe place if he wants you dead..
 
Yes, no safe place to hide and Putin likes to make sure these deaths get public notice so any enemies will get the message and know what's awaiting them. My only surprise is that he hasn't been on the receiving end, at least not yet.
 
zinger1457 said:
Yes, no safe place to hide and Putin likes to make sure these deaths get public notice so any enemies will get the message and know what's awaiting them. My only surprise is that he hasn't been on the receiving end, at least not yet.
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True... the way he is going it might be soon...
 
According to the Igor Sushko Twitter (X) feed: "Prigozhin anticipated his own probable assassination and prepared a hard drive of data for release if that happened."
 
Birdie Num Nums said:
According to the Igor Sushko Twitter (X) feed: "Prigozhin anticipated his own probable assassination and prepared a hard drive of data for release if that happened."
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I was listening to an interview the other day and a fellow who studies wars and conflicts said the plane crash was essentially a less gruesome way to have a public execution. I suppose that's one way to look at it.



Who knows? I don't.
 
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