Limit Professionals Compensation

Raise Taxes For Those Making More Than $200,000? (Thread Not About Wage Control!)

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 31.9%
  • No

    Votes: 32 68.1%

  • Total voters
    47
I think it's important to differentiate the discussion between the general population (including dr's, teachers, plumbers) and the high end extremely paid CEO's...even though they are a small percentage - they have the lion's share of $ and this hoarding does not in fact benefit the overall economy.

then they save it, hoard it in foundations and other investments and the general public doesn't see the money again...especially when you see the #'s on how little the wealthiest actually do give, in proportion to their income.

You've got to be kidding. The top 5% of wealthiest individuals pay 70% of total income taxes. They are doing their share already. This governmental tax on success does not even count what the wealthy also give to charity, give by providing employment, etc.
 
Robert are you in this income group?

Why does this topic make you so :rant:?

I'm doubtful the wealthy (extreme top 1-2%) pay their fair share - or what they are supposed to pay - either personally or via their corporations. A big percentage of corps avoid paying any taxes.
 
Robert are you in this income group?

....

I'm doubtful the wealthy (extreme top 1-2%) pay their fair share - or what they are supposed to pay - either personally or via their corporations. A big percentage of corps avoid paying any taxes.

Not throwing in any cents this time, just some data that you all can feed on. Robert, this data from irs is a bit diff, says the top 5% pay 57% of the income taxes. Top 1% pay 37% of the income tax. Of course, many poor do not pay at all, so I'm not sure how that figures in.

Not sure what bright eyes would consider a 'fair share', but those numbers are from the irs.

[SIZE=-1]www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/04in06tr.xls

Bright e
yed - why would you want a corporation to pay taxes? Those taxes are passed on to consumers in the price of the goods. So both poor and rich pay the same amount when they purchase that product. It ends up as a flat tax w/o anything to offset it. Wouldn't liberals support zero corporate taxes? I do.

-ERD50

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I think it's important to differentiate the discussion between the general population (including dr's, teachers, plumbers) and the high end extremely paid CEO's...even though they are a small percentage - they have the lion's share of $ and this hoarding does not in fact benefit the overall economy.

then they save it, hoard it in foundations and other investments and the general public doesn't see the money again...especially when you see the #'s on how little the wealthiest actually do give, in proportion to their income.

Again... a myth... they do not make "the lion's share"... even with a hugh bonus and other big perks, the CEO makes less than 1% of total comp at my company... and I bet it is less than 1/4%... but we do have 170,000 employees... and that does not count all the temps and contract etc...

Does he make 100 to 500 times ordinary salary, yes he does.. maybe even 1,000.. but 'lion's share':confused:?
 
You've got to be kidding. The top 5% of wealthiest individuals pay 70% of total income taxes. They are doing their share already. This governmental tax on success does not even count what the wealthy also give to charity, give by providing employment, etc.
I think top 5% pay more (think its more like 55-60% of total) because they have a lot more income and assets (about 60% of total wealth?)) to pay tax on...increasing their "burden" and the next 15% shouldn't be as a big a sweat as it would be on the struggling lower 80% with 20% of wealth
 
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Gosh, what would we do w/out the wiki?

The Lion's Share is an expression that has come to mean the larger of two amounts, or more often, the largest of several amounts.
The saying derives from one of Aesop's fables, where the term is actually defined as the complete amount (all of it).
In the fable, a lion, fox, jackal and wolf go hunting, successfully killing a deer. It is divided into four parts with the lion taking the first quarter because he is king of the beasts, the second quarter because he is the arbiter of which animals get what portions of the deer, the third quarter because of his help in catching the deer, and the fourth quarter for his superior strength.
In some variants of the fable, the lion only takes three-quarters of the deer and lets the other animals fight over the remaining quarter.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion%27s_Share"

If the Lion didn't take 1000 x's, how about 500 x's (or how about 50?) and distributed to the the lowest quartile employees, then perhaps they could afford their own quality health care, a decent place to live, a little retirement and college...but when the janitors and others work full time and can't support their family, then we have larger social/economic/health problems, as we do in the states. then we could shrink the gubmint, services and taxes the way people want because the need would not exist to the extent it does now.

We all know here that after some level of income, you can make your money work for you...well, some people don't get that chance and scrape by and their children have a worse chance then others just because of the family they were born into, while others have the extreme privileges offered by their families.
 
Gosh, what would we do w/out the wiki?

The Lion's Share is an expression that has come to mean the larger of two amounts, or more often, the largest of several amounts.
The saying derives from one of Aesop's fables, where the term is actually defined as the complete amount (all of it).
In the fable, a lion, fox, jackal and wolf go hunting, successfully killing a deer. It is divided into four parts with the lion taking the first quarter because he is king of the beasts, the second quarter because he is the arbiter of which animals get what portions of the deer, the third quarter because of his help in catching the deer, and the fourth quarter for his superior strength.
In some variants of the fable, the lion only takes three-quarters of the deer and lets the other animals fight over the remaining quarter.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion%27s_Share"

If the Lion didn't take 1000 x's, how about 500 x's (or how about 50?) and distributed to the the lowest quartile employees, then perhaps they could afford their own quality health care, a decent place to live, a little retirement and college...but when the janitors and others work full time and can't support their family, then we have larger social/economic/health problems, as we do in the states. then we could shrink the gubmint, services and taxes the way people want because the need would not exist to the extent it does now.

We all know here that after some level of income, you can make your money work for you...well, some people don't get that chance and scrape by and their children have a worse chance then others just because of the family they were born into, while others have the extreme privileges offered by their families.
Love that lion's share story! ...your speaking my mind here....
 
Love that lion's share story! ...your speaking my mind here....

I think you are misapplying the term.

In the case Texas Proud gave, the CEO salary was 1% of the total compensation at the company. So, the 'lion's share' was the 99% part. The CEO would have needed to make 51% of the company total before it met the definition that bright eyed gave.


If the Lion didn't take 1000 x's, how about 500 x's (or how about 50?) and distributed to the the lowest quartile employees, then perhaps they could afford their own quality health care, a decent place to live, a little retirement and college...

Check my math here. If the CEO made 1% of the total comp of the company, and let's say we reduce the CEO package to ZERO, we would only free up 1% of the total comp for the other employees. Divide it as a percent of each person's salary and everyone could get a 1% raise. Not exactly 'party in the streets' time, is it? I don't think that makes the diff between having that list of things you gave and not having it.

And the company might possibly go bankrupt and everyone would lose their jobs after they were unable to hire any talented executive staff, but hey, I'm just speculating there.


-ERD50
 
I never used TP's company as an example...i was referring to the top 1-2% wealthy in the US...

Basic idea is that over a certain income, you have your food, clothing and shelter...let's pass some of that around before someone gets another yacht, benz or rolly - are we opposed to that? i'm not trying to fight my neighbor over his plasma or silly hummer, just the top 1-2%, let's start there.
 
I never used TP's company as an example...i was referring to the top 1-2% wealthy in the US...

Basic idea is that over a certain income, you have your food, clothing and shelter...let's pass some of that around before someone gets another yacht, benz or rolly - are we opposed to that? i'm not trying to fight my neighbor over his plasma or silly hummer, just the top 1-2%, let's start there.


Most of the top 1% are not making it in INCOME like you and me... they are making it in investments... and you do not think we should cap the ability of someone to earn big time on their investments do you?? (or maybe you actually DO which is even more disturbing)....

And if I have $100 mill it would seem to me that I should make in the neighborhood of $5 to $20 mill just on that base of assets alone. But you want to say NOOOO... that money should go to someone else (who does NOT invest anything) so they can live better... well, what is their skin in the game?? It is not their moping skill that is making the company money.

And then look at some of the mega rich... the Gates are donating billions..so is (dang... brain fart.. #3 guy)... and then Ted Turner gave away 1/3 of his wealth (IIRC)... so all of these people are giving away a VERY large percent of thier wealth.. what have you done?
 
It's a slippery slope. Once we start taking from wealthier others on the basis that "oh well, they have so much (and I have so little), they won't miss it anyway", where does it end?
 
OHHH... This should probably be another thread.... but...

I think that we should have a SURTAX at the bottom of the tax form...

Your payment for the Iraq war (multiply 10% of line XX above).......

This should be 10% of the tax you owe.. everybody pays the same rate, but it is based on your tax so everybody's tax goes up 10%... all the people who don't pay taxes don't owe anything... and this is the total tax line just for the curious...
 
Most of the top 1% are not making it in INCOME like you and me... they are making it in investments... and you do not think we should cap the ability of someone to earn big time on their investments do you?? (or maybe you actually DO which is even more disturbing)....

And if I have $100 mill it would seem to me that I should make in the neighborhood of $5 to $20 mill just on that base of assets alone. But you want to say NOOOO... that money should go to someone else (who does NOT invest anything) so they can live better... well, what is their skin in the game?? It is not their moping skill that is making the company money.

And then look at some of the mega rich... the Gates are donating billions..so is (dang... brain fart.. #3 guy)... and then Ted Turner gave away 1/3 of his wealth (IIRC)... so all of these people are giving away a VERY large percent of thier wealth.. what have you done?

Geez, why all the vitriol?

I'm simply saying that it seems reasonable to limit the unfettered crazy ceo salaries, so that there was some increasing ability by those at the most bottom, to make a living, so that they can at some point, some day invest. I am aware that many of them do not have liquid $ - my sis's father in law is one of those...but i'm not talking about that tier, I'm talking about the tier w/ both the assets and the cash to live high on the hog.

Folks want to complain about taxes and social services spending, but yet, the minimum wage does not provide sufficient income for many to get by.

I'd much rather have better wages contribute to social well-being than free social programs, but alas, it seems the voting public does not compute increased wages with better living and less reliance on public programs.

I think Gates and a few notable others are exceptions and there have been many studies that show how middle and low income people donate FAR MORE as a percentage of their income than do more wealthy people (they just don't hire PR companies to let everyone know about it). Also, a lot of wealthy people donate to their alma maters and arts and not for things that benefit people outside of their status circle. I have worked with multi-millionaires who confess as much and now encourage their friends to do more.

and I do believe I have and continue to do a lot. My whole life has been dedicated to improving policies to improve society - thank you very much and I have taken a BIG personal financial hit to do it. I just think we can do better...:D
 
I'd much rather have better wages contribute to social well-being than free social programs, but alas, it seems the voting public does not compute increased wages with better living and less reliance on public programs.

An increase in the minimum wage does nothing. Whether valid or not the end result is an increase in the cost of goods to the point that those making minimum wages still won't be able to afford anything. Additionally, those making more than the minimum wage suffer a loss in buying power. The people who are hurt the most are those receiving tip wages. Their hourly wage does not go up and their tips aren't going to be that much better. Typically those earning tip wages do not make a lot of money, some do, but most do not.
 
Geez, why all the vitriol?

:confused: I thought we were having a pretty civilized discussion. :confused:

I'm simply saying that it seems reasonable to limit the unfettered crazy ceo salaries, so that there was some increasing ability by those at the most bottom, to make a living, so that they can at some point, some day invest.

I am far from certain that there would be any significant 'trickle down effect'. In any case, CEO salaries are theoretically established by a free market, so personally I don't have much of a problem with them.

I think Gates and a few notable others are exceptions and there have been many studies that show how middle and low income people donate FAR MORE as a percentage of their income than do more wealthy people (they just don't hire PR companies to let everyone know about it).

I don't know, but that sounds plausible.

Also, a lot of wealthy people donate to their alma maters and arts and not for things that benefit people outside of their status circle.
Not quite sure what your point is here. Obviously most people are going to donate to their favourite charity, university, hospital, church or whatever, rather than an organization or cause that they know or care little about. That doesn't make such gifts less welcome or worthy.
 
I happen to know someone who was a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, and is now a CEO of a Fortune 100 company. The guy makes many, many millions of dollars. Has for a number of years now.

He came from humble beginnings, earned a PhD and obviously was pretty good at applying his skills and education. He's an extremely bright guy, and very interesting to talk with.

I have a very tough time pretending that I am in any position to tell him how to spend the money that he earned.

BTW, considering his income, he is definitely LBYM. But those are some pretty nice 'means'.

-ERD50
 
Related reading: Robert Frank, The Winner-Take-All Society: Why the Few at the Top Get So Much More Than the Rest of Us.
 
An increase in the minimum wage does nothing. Whether valid or not the end result is an increase in the cost of goods to the point that those making minimum wages still won't be able to afford anything. Additionally, those making more than the minimum wage suffer a loss in buying power. The people who are hurt the most are those receiving tip wages. Their hourly wage does not go up and their tips aren't going to be that much better. Typically those earning tip wages do not make a lot of money, some do, but most do not.

why is that the argument against increasing the min wage and not made against exorbitant ceo salaries?
 
why is that the argument against increasing the min wage and not made against exorbitant ceo salaries?

Two reasons that I can see.

1) there are many more min wage workers than multi-million CEOs

2) It's consistent - either raising min wage OR limiting CEO pay is a move towards socialism. So, if one is against that trend, one is against both.

Me, I'm open to the min wage increase debate. I'm not sure if it is a good thing or not.

I'm in favor of more shareholder input on CEO pay, I think the BOD situation keeps it from being a totally free market.

-ERD50
 
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