Overpaying car dealership for repairs

[FinanceDude]

What makes people think that independent mechanics are going to be more honest than the dealership? Just curious.

Well, IMHO, they are.........but you have to ask around..........

 

[frank2009]

I'd like to 2nd or 3rd those recommending a good independent mechanic. You may be able to find a mechanic in your town that specializes in foreign car repair. A lexus may be similar to its Toyota bretheren as far as some repairs are concerned but i am not knowledgeable enough to say for sure. Sometimes, it may be worth paying for good service so you need to weigh that out too, along with convenience and how quickly the car is returned to you.

 

[FinanceDude]

Most independent mechanics I know got their start working for dealerships. They figured out they could charge less than a dealer and get a ton of work, and in the end make more money,so they did........

However, mine is pretty funny about it. When I told him I sold my Chrysler Town and Country and bought a Honda Odyssey to go along with my Accord, he rolled his eyes and said: "So, you sold the only thing I could use as a profit center,thanks a lot!"

 

[HFWR]

Status is not free.

Low status is pretty cheap, though... O0

 

[calmloki]

Plus when you do it yourself you know what oil is going in and how much of it, you know everything is tightened down correctly, you probably won't leave grease on the steering wheel and you don't need to strip the car of all those goodies that may be ripped off during the oil change.

That said, I occasionally take the beast in to get the grease job done...That part is not worth the hassle to me.

Ok, i know this is the slam the crooked incompetent dealer mechanic thread, but just another viewpoint. Most of the mechanics i've known do the best job they can - granted, they do it in the most efficient way possible - do you do any different in your job? There is a lot of variety in mechanical ability - some mechanics are very good, some are horrible. Ditto for doctors, fry cooks, engineers. Dealerships have required training that the mechanics are subjected to for the newest dealership models. A big advantage to dealership mechanics is that they see a lot of the same model and age cars - common to a particular model/year problems are spotted quickly - an independent may see your year and model once every few weeks, if that.
IMHO, the sharpest and the laziest mechanics open their own shops. I've worked as a dealership mechanic and had my own VW/import shop. We had a loyal group of people bringing cars my partner and me, but if it was a year or so old - it really needed to be at the dealership. I was in the lazy camp - older VW repair could be done by any ol' schmuck. That said, it was amazing the amount of damage a person trying to do their own work on stone simple cars could cause. Maybe most people can still change a tire without dropping the car on themselves or crossthreading the lugbolts, maybe they can even torque the lugs properly and not have the tire pass them on the highway, much past that and it really depends on whether they are willing to learn how to do something properly. I hated working on the cars someone else had tried to fix - they took off too many of the wrong things, lost or boogered fasteners, and broke bolts off with wild abandon (i'm thinking of you, Rabbit water pumps!).
For me, dealership gets it for the first year or two while it's under warranty, good independent after that, owner does the work if they like wrenching and have the skill.

 

[saluki9]

What makes people think that independent mechanics are going to be more honest than the dealership? Just curious.

(For my mechanic) It's because he's a small business owner in a town full of wealthy professionals. If he screwed people over he would be out of business in a few days.

But in general they are more honest because they wouldn't be able to make a living otherwise. With an independent you usually aren't dealing through a service manager. If he doesn't fix something correctly I'm going to be complaining to the guy who did the work.

 

[Walt34]

That said, it was amazing the amount of damage a person trying to do their own work on stone simple cars could cause. Maybe most people can still change a tire without dropping the car on themselves or crossthreading the lugbolts, maybe they can even torque the lugs properly and not have the tire pass them on the highway, much past that and it really depends on whether they are willing to learn how to do something properly. I hated working on the cars someone else had tried to fix - they took off too many of the wrong things, lost or boogered fasteners, and broke bolts off with wild abandon (i'm thinking of you, Rabbit water pumps!).
For me, dealership gets it for the first year or two while it's under warranty, good independent after that, owner does the work if they like wrenching and have the skill.

That's what I did, everything at the dealer while they were under warranty, kept the receipts, that way no quibbles about whether maintenance was done. But I'm also the one who bought the service manuals and read them - "okay, this I can fix, this I better keep my grubby mitts off of." And I own - and use - a torque wrench.

There is a reason for the sign in the independent shop's lobby: Rates: $50/hour. If you watch, $75/hour. Repair your repairs, $100/hour. Eons ago I did heating & A/C service so I sure understand it!

The independent shop I found is perhaps a rarity, they put a plastic seat cover and plastic steering wheel cover in before the technician gets in. And they are technicians - basically all the cars now have computer networks integrated into the vehicles to squeeze that last .01 mpg they can out of it while maintaining some semblance of reliability. The service "manual" on the pickup is five volumes, one whole book for just the electronics on the engine. And that's five years old now.

The salesguy where I bought the vehicles said, and I believe him, that the dealer doesn't sell one model of Cadillac because it would have required spending two million on diagnostic gear for just that one model. For a small dealership the numbers just didn't work.

The manufacturers are not only out to eke every nickel they can from you, but from the dealers too, hence designing for all the special tools that the dealers have to buy from... guess who.

 

[Bimmerbill]

I either do my own or go to a good indy. When I had my BMW even the indy was expensive, but was 1/2 of the BMW dealership.

 

[clifp]

Somebody on this forum IIRC, suggested going to Cartalk and looking for mechanics who specializing your type of car. I did so recently and went with the highest rated Accura guy in my area. I must say I was delighted with the service, price especially compared to the dealers.

 

[Goonie]

For warranty work, I take it to the dealership where I bought it. The owner is one of the most honorable gentlemen that I've ever met! I've known him and his family for many years, and have never heard a bad thing about him or his business dealings! His dealership is in a small town about 6 or 7 miles away from here.....the only new car dealership left in that town. He has some of the best mechanics around, and they only do the needed repairs and/or maintenance, and not all that other "bill padding" crapola! I've had things done there a few of times (non-warranty), and when I went settle the bill, the service manager said "No charge.....didn't take very long.....and nobody missed their coffee break! Have a nice day!"

For normal maintenance and most non-warranty stuff, I either take it to an independent 'wrench' a few blocks from home, or to my neighbor who used to work for him before he fully retired (he still does some work for him when the guy gets swamped). Both of them do excellent work, and neither of them charge excessive amounts for it! In fact, my neighbor replaced the transmission in my last car a few years ago.......charged me $250 labor....the 'wrench' was too busy and sent me to my neighbor!

Back in my (much) younger days, I used to do almost all of my own work, either in the driveway or the garage. Shocks, brakes, exhaust, oil changes....even rebuilt an engine and lots of carburetors. Now I'm older and lazier, and figure I saved enough money over the years by doing my own repairs, that now I can boost the local economy by paying someone else to bust their knuckles!

 

[Khan]

The indie I've been going to for most stuff for ~15 years went out of business. Now I've got to go through the crap of finding a replacement.

 

[Goonie]

The indie I've been going to for most stuff for ~15 years went out of business. Now I've got to go through the crap of finding a replacement.

Is there any possibility of being able to get in touch with him to see who he might recommend as his 'replacement'? Just a thought.

 

[Khan]

Is there any possibility of being able to get in touch with him to see who he might recommend as his 'replacement'? Just a thought.

I'll try; wish he'd sent his long term customers that info..

 

[FinanceDude]

Ok, i know this is the slam the crooked incompetent dealer mechanic thread, but just another viewpoint. Most of the mechanics i've known do the best job they can - granted, they do it in the most efficient way possible - do you do any different in your job? There is a lot of variety in mechanical ability - some mechanics are very good, some are horrible. Ditto for doctors, fry cooks, engineers. Dealerships have required training that the mechanics are subjected to for the newest dealership models. A big advantage to dealership mechanics is that they see a lot of the same model and age cars - common to a particular model/year problems are spotted quickly - an independent may see your year and model once every few weeks, if that.
IMHO, the sharpest and the laziest mechanics open their own shops. I've worked as a dealership mechanic and had my own VW/import shop. We had a loyal group of people bringing cars my partner and me, but if it was a year or so old - it really needed to be at the dealership. I was in the lazy camp - older VW repair could be done by any ol' schmuck. That said, it was amazing the amount of damage a person trying to do their own work on stone simple cars could cause. Maybe most people can still change a tire without dropping the car on themselves or crossthreading the lugbolts, maybe they can even torque the lugs properly and not have the tire pass them on the highway, much past that and it really depends on whether they are willing to learn how to do something properly. I hated working on the cars someone else had tried to fix - they took off too many of the wrong things, lost or boogered fasteners, and broke bolts off with wild abandon (i'm thinking of you, Rabbit water pumps!).
For me, dealership gets it for the first year or two while it's under warranty, good independent after that, owner does the work if they like wrenching and have the skill.

I kinda do that. While it's under warranty, I got to the dealer for any warranty-related issues, TSB's etc..........they're the only place that can do that. Also, I ALWAYS do the 30,000 maintenance package, except I take it a step further. About 1,000 miles before the manufacturer's warranty ends, I ask the service manager to do the same inspections they do when they certify a used car for sale. I pay the extra labor charge for the extra time they spend. I ask for the list of what was inspected, the wear amounts on things like brakes, etc.

I started doing this when I owned a domestic car that had a TON of stuff go wrong with it about 1,000 miles after the warranty lapsed. When I complained to the manufacturer, and gave them the documentation, they fixed all the problems for nothing. To me it is money well spent.......

 

[travelover]

Somebody on this forum IIRC, suggested going to Cartalk and looking for mechanics who specializing your type of car. I did so recently and went with the highest rated Accura guy in my area. I must say I was delighted with the service, price especially compared to the dealers.

It was me that made the Cartalk Mechanics Files recommendation. I've found good mechanics for my (now) wife, myself and my MIL using that resource. Unless the service is very technical (computer / emission related) or under warranty, I've found the small shops to be better and cheaper than the dealer.

 

[free4now]

I found that the 30k/60k/90k services that the Toyota dealer wants $300 for can be gotten for about $60. Turns out that the dealer usually offers "free inspection" coupons which cover most if not all the important items on the 30k services. The only real things on the 30k service besides inspections are: Oil change ($30), Engine air filter change ($15 for the part), and cabin air filter ($15 for the part).

The biggest rip off is the prices dealers charge to replace cabin air filters. I just received a "coupon" offering me an air filter change for "only" $79.95. It takes me 2 minutes to install the $15 part.

If the dealer charged you $100 to install light bulbs, think about learning to install light bulbs yourself.

 

[jazz4cash]

About 1,000 miles before the manufacturer's warranty ends, I ask the service manager to do the same inspections they do when they certify a used car for sale. I pay the extra labor charge for the extra time they spend. I ask for the list of what was inspected, the wear amounts on things like brakes, etc.

This is an excellant suggestion. In our area, it only costs about $150 to do a state inspection, which is fairly extensive, but maybe not as extensive as the inspection for 'certified used' status.

 

[JPatrick]

This is an excellant suggestion. In our area, it only costs about $150 to do a state inspection, which is fairly extensive, but maybe not as extensive as the inspection for 'certified used' status.

Yipes, is this $150.00 inspection the type that each vehicle must have every year??

 

[jazz4cash]

Yipes, is this $150.00 inspection the type that each vehicle must have every year??

Only required for xfer of title for used vehicles. I've seen some gas stations and independent shops advertise the service for as little as $59 if you just want an easy pass, but they will almost certainly find something that needs to be fixed. The $150 is what I paid at the dealer for vehicle purchased out of state.

 

[W2R]

Toyota repair? What is that

(A happy Solara owner with almost 8 repair-free years under my belt)
(and no dealer servicing in my case, but make your own decision on that)

OK, guess that NOW I will have to stop being so smug. I took my Solara in for new tires yesterday (only 34,800 miles but 5 years on these tires and at least one was looking pretty bad).

$555 for the four Goodyear tires including all the labor and valve stems and whatever else they had to do or use, and tax.

While it was up on the rack, they told me it needed new brake pads and cleaning, too. $223 for labor, brake pads, cleaning fluid, tax, and so on. So, I got out of there for $778 total.

On the other hand, I suppose that I could count new brake pads as being preventative maintenance, instead of repairs, in which case my Solara is STILL repair-free.

I have no idea whether these charges are reasonable or not on a nationwide basis, though I am pretty sure they are a good deal for New Orleans in 2008. I have dealt with this tire place for 12 years and in the past they have always done right by me. And, like always, I ended up sitting there for hours. Two and a half hours, actually. I nearly died of boredom.

 

[Goonie]

I have dealt with this tire place for 12 years and in the past they have always done right by me. And, like always, I ended up sitting there for hours. Two and a half hours, actually. I nearly died of boredom.

The original owner of the tire joint that I've done business with for the last 30+ years, just retired last year and sold the business. But while he still had it, if there was going to be a wait of over about a half hour or so, he'd toss me the keys to his car and tell me he'd drop my car off on his way to lunch (if it was a.m.) or on his way home (if it was p.m.). I was free to use his car as if it was mine......it was the only time I got to drive convertibles.....COOL!

He always did good work for reasonable prices. The new guy that has it now has some of the highest prices in the area, and the quality of their work ain't so great.....I've heard several complaints! So now I go to another locally owned joint that's owned by a very personable guy....and his prices and quality of workmanship are real good.......but he ain't got a 'vertible!

 

[Walt34]

Only required for xfer of title for used vehicles. I've seen some gas stations and independent shops advertise the service for as little as $59 if you just want an easy pass, but they will almost certainly find something that needs to be fixed. The $150 is what I paid at the dealer for vehicle purchased out of state.

Sounds like Maryland. They do have a very good inspection if it's done according to the book, takes about an hour. It should be annual.

WV has an annual inspection but it's a joke. Just tire tread, lights, wipers, brake pads, no obvious exhaust leaks, a few other things. They don't even look at steering, suspension or the hundreds of other things that MD does.

 

[W2R]

The original owner of the tire joint that I've done business with for the last 30+ years, just retired last year and sold the business. But while he still had it, if there was going to be a wait of over about a half hour or so, he'd toss me the keys to his car and tell me he'd drop my car off on his way to lunch (if it was a.m.) or on his way home (if it was p.m.). I was free to use his car as if it was mine......it was the only time I got to drive convertibles.....COOL!

That really DOES sound cool! My tire place will drive you someplace if you ask, but they are pretty slow in doing that. Transportation usually consists of a mechanic driving you in his own somewhat dirty ancient car, with the radio blasting, and he is not in a hurry to get back to work and often they forget to come pick you up later. Then when you call, it's "Wasn't Billy Bob going to pick her up? He's gone home? What about Jim-Boy, does his wife have the car today or can he pick her up? Ma'am, can you wait a while and I promise we'll call you in a few minutes about when we can pick you up" and so on. Basically, they do great work on the car but they aren't so good with the impromptu transportation services. So, I'd rather just sit!

He always did good work for reasonable prices. The new guy that has it now has some of the highest prices in the area, and the quality of their work ain't so great.....I've heard several complaints! So now I go to another locally owned joint that's owned by a very personable guy....and his prices and quality of workmanship are real good.......but he ain't got a 'vertible!

If you have good prices and good workmanship, it sounds like a great place even so.

 

[FinanceDude]

OK, guess that NOW I will have to stop being so smug. I took my Solara in for new tires yesterday (only 34,800 miles but 5 years on these tires and at least one was looking pretty bad).

Tires have a mileage life and a life in general, they can crack and dry rot, so somtimes you make a move earlier on tires.......

O

n the other hand, I suppose that I could count new brake pads as being preventative maintenance, instead of repairs, in which case my Solara is STILL repair-free.

What you did WAS maintenance, not repairs.......

I have no idea whether these charges are reasonable or not on a nationwide basis, though I am pretty sure they are a good deal for New Orleans in 2008. I have dealt with this tire place for 12 years and in the past they have always done right by me. And, like always, I ended up sitting there for hours. Two and a half hours, actually. I nearly died of boredom.

I just had rear pads and rotors done on my Accord, and I paid $197 + tax, so I think you did ok. Of course, there are a few folks on here that could do the work with $50 in parts and a screwdriver, but I'm not one of those folks.......

 

[W2R]

What you did WAS maintenance, not repairs.......

Yay!! He said it, guys. My Solara is STILL repair-free, after almost 8 years. Thanks, FD.

I just had rear pads and rotors done on my Accord, and I paid $197 + tax, so I think you did ok. Of course, there are a few folks on here that could do the work with $50 in parts and a screwdriver, but I'm not one of those folks.......

Me either. In fact, I don't know much about cars at all, and I don't recall him saying anything about rotors (but then the minute he said brakes my mind shut off). He said something about the back having to be done to balance the front which really needed it, but the back was cheaper. I think the pads were $47, and something else was $45, and there was cleaning fluid and labor involved. I'll have to look at the receipt later when I am at home and can post exactly what it said.