Alcoholism

Lot of good advice.

Things you can't do:
Fix him. He's really not broken, but it's our instinct to want to help. Force him into 90 meetings in 90 day, or rehab, or any other thing. That's will become a premeditated resentment. It's his and he must own it and perhaps make some mistakes.

Things you can do:
Pick up a Big Book and you go to Al-Anon. Encourage him to go to AA. It's an easy program that has saved millions of people. If your DS is Christian too, he may recognize some of the program from the book of John. It's his decision to make, not anyone else. He may not be ready, yet. Love him, give him emotional support. Pray.
 
NPR had a podcast about a drug called Naltrexone. From what I understand, it blocks the craving for alcohol in the brain. The article from the U.S. National Library of Medicine (MedlinePlus) explains the benefits and cautions of taking the drug. The NPR podcast hosted several recipients of the drug and the results were practically immediate.
Yes, Naltrexone is reportedly of some use in treating alcoholism (and opioid addiction). It works by blocking the feelings of euphoria that alcohol and opioids produce in the user.


There are other drugs (Antabuse being the oldest and best understood) that cause a significant and nearly immediate negative reaction (nausea, vomiting, throbbing headache, etc) when alcohol is ingested. As part of a comprehensive treatment program, Antabuse and similar medications help by "taking alcohol off the table" as the alcoholic wrestles with physiological and psychological cravings for alcohol. They are better able to concentrate on developing other coping strategies if the pleasurable ingestion of alcohol is no longer a possibility.


These aids are far from a panacea, and are only adjuncts to other treatments designed to help the alcoholic recover and stay recovered. Research shows they can be moderately to very useful, as part of a comprehensive program. Among other challenges, most are taken orally, and if the patient refuses to take them, then . . . . (though it takes about 10 days for Antabuse to leave the system so drinking can resume, which does provide some cushion).

Alcoholism is as serious as cancer, heart disease, diabetes, or any other disease/affliction that can cause suffering and death. For a successful outcome, it needs to be addressed with the same tenacity as we give these other diseases. If a person had lung cancer or heart disease and was told he could be symptom free by spending a few hours a week in heartfelt participation in a meeting, by taking an inexpensive drug for a few months, and by making some lifelong changes in how they viewed themselves and how they react to certain circumstances in their lives, and ultimately by just eliminating one type of beverage from their diet, I'm pretty sure most folks would jump at the chance to do these things. The fact that alcoholics find it very hard to do so tells a lot, IMO, about the way society views this disease, about our individual powers of denial, and (mostly) about the grip that alcohol (and other addictive substances) can have on the human mind.
 
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- he is on Effexor medicine to treat the social anxiety. I’ve not noticed improvement, but he says it helps. Of course, alcohol and Effexor are not supposed to be mixed.

I have vascular dementia from years of Diabetes. When it began to affect my job performance and I did not yet know why, I had quite a bit of anxiety. I am 'normally' an extremely happy person so this anxiety was a new experience for me. I couldn't figure out what was wrong or what I was feeling. I told my long-time MD that I felt 'kinda really worried' and he started me on Effexor with the caveat that it took 10 to 14 days to work, IIRC. After about 2 weeks I felt more 'normal' and was still worried but it was no longer overwhelming. My doctor told me that Effexor worked great for the ones that it worked for. I am 64 with a lifetime of serious medical issues and one of the most important things I have learned is that many times you have to change meds and try a few before the answer is found. Lots of people think think 'Why didn't the Dr just start with this drug?' But that's not the way it works. One other thing to note is that it takes a while. Have patience but don't stop doing what a competent Dr says. The first drug attempt is usually not the last. Once I knew what the problem was and was thinking without the burden of anxiety the need for the anti-anxiety drug went away. Also, the improvement I felt from the Effexor was not radical or noticeable to my wife. I noticed gradually though.

Mike D.
 
I forced a son into rehab a few times and it didn’t work. They have to want to change.
Same here. DW has a sister who always drank too much and she's become a full blown alcoholic, lost her job, her marriage & children 1-2 years ago. She blames everyone but herself, and that hasn't lessened one bit over the years - she's bitter that the world is against her, and takes it out on family. She is living in an apartment, when her (about $100K) inheritance finally runs out, she is going to have to face facts. Siblings forced her to rehab several times, and she bolted after a week or two each time. Siblings have practiced compassion (taking her in, bailing her out, giving her money. etc.), and then tough love, all to no avail. After years of trying, they've all concluded until the SIL decides for herself that she wants to change - she will continue down the path of self-destruction. The siblings all still reach out to the alcoholic SIL, but it's usually no response or a bitter incoherent tirade. Not what we wanted to hear or believe either, but that's what it's come to after the SIL has destroyed everything in her formerly ideal looking life...

I hope the OP finds a better way.
 
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Naltrexone blocks the pleasure centers so that’s a problem. Also it prevents some drugs from working so for instance a doctor couldn’t give you a local for a medical procedure because it wouldn’t block the pain.
 
Yes, Naltrexone is reportedly of some use in treating alcoholism (and opioid addiction). It works by blocking the feelings of euphoria that alcohol and opioids produce in the user.


There are other drugs (Antabuse being the oldest and best understood) that cause a significant and nearly immediate negative reaction (nausea, vomiting, throbbing headache, etc) when alcohol is ingested.

my suggestion would be to get him on antabuse - he will quit drinking
 
Naltrexone blocks the pleasure centers so that’s a problem. Also it prevents some drugs from working so for instance a doctor couldn’t give you a local for a medical procedure because it wouldn’t block the pain.

from what i understand, naltrexone doesn't totally block the pain so you need extra pain meds
 
Yes, Naltrexone is reportedly of some use in treating alcoholism (and opioid addiction). It works by blocking the feelings of euphoria that alcohol and opioids produce in the user.


There are other drugs (Antabuse being the oldest and best understood) that cause a significant and nearly immediate negative reaction (nausea, vomiting, throbbing headache, etc) when alcohol is ingested. As part of a comprehensive treatment program, Antabuse and similar medications help by "taking alcohol off the table" as the alcoholic wrestles with physiological and psychological cravings for alcohol. They are better able to concentrate on developing other coping strategies if the pleasurable ingestion of alcohol is no longer a possibility.


These aids are far from a panacea, and are only adjuncts to other treatments designed to help the alcoholic recover and stay recovered. Research shows they can be moderately to very useful, as part of a comprehensive program. Among other challenges, most are taken orally, and if the patient refuses to take them, then . . . . (though it takes about 10 days for Antabuse to leave the system so drinking can resume, which does provide some cushion).

Alcoholism is as serious as cancer, heart disease, diabetes, or any other disease/affliction that can cause suffering and death. For a successful outcome, it needs to be addressed with the same tenacity as we give these other diseases. If a person had lung cancer or heart disease and was told he could be symptom free by spending a few hours a week in heartfelt participation in a meeting, by taking an inexpensive drug for a few months, and by making some lifelong changes in how they viewed themselves and how they react to certain circumstances in their lives, and ultimately by just eliminating one type of beverage from their diet, I'm pretty sure most folks would jump at the chance to do these things. The fact that alcoholics find it very hard to do so tells a lot, IMO, about the way society views this disease, about our individual powers of denial, and (mostly) about the grip that alcohol (and other addictive substances) can have on the human mind.


The above is a great post with potentially useful ideas. And your last paragraph mirrors what I’ve been realizing lately about the insidious nature of addiction. I hate it. I hate alcoholism.

Still, there is nothing I can do to control it or cure it. If there was, I would already have been successful. Only my son can make the choice to save himself. I’ve got to let go. But this idea of detachment is very hard. He’s my son. As a dad, I’m supposed to help my kids when they’re sick. Letting go is a must before I drive myself crazy obsessing over everything he does or doesn’t do. Addiction is awful.

The responses to my post have been amazing. This site is really something special. A heartfelt thanks to each of you.

Muir
 
my suggestion would be to get him on antabuse - he will quit drinking
I saw a guy drinking on antabuse. He was totally Purple! I've never seen anyone that gone, and not in a good way. Guy showed up to work like that, said he wanted to run a chain saw! Told him if he was still on the clock when the whistle blew he was gone. He left, I probably fired him the next week. He died an alcoholic death a few years later.

While some idiot tried it's not a fun thing to do. Most folks are smarter.
 
The major tenet of AA is an alcoholic is powerless. Also a belief in a higher power. My problem when I attended AA was that I didn't think I was powerless and I didn't believe in a higher power.

You're a Christian, but your son might have different thoughts. Would you be OK having a frank discussion about his beliefs and be OK if his beliefs differed from yours?

What I liked about AA was that those attending took their sobriety very seriously. But there are many other avenues to sobriety besides AA. I'm a loner I did best working it out by myself.
 
I’m sorry. This is difficult. I believe the best shot an alcoholic addict has is a long term program. They need to hit bottom and want help ... go to detox first followed by a 1-3 month rehab and then onto sober living for at least a year.
 
The major tenet of AA is an alcoholic is powerless. Also a belief in a higher power. My problem when I attended AA was that I didn't think I was powerless and I didn't believe in a higher power.

You're a Christian, but your son might have different thoughts. Would you be OK having a frank discussion about his beliefs and be OK if his beliefs differed from yours?

What I liked about AA was that those attending took their sobriety very seriously. But there are many other avenues to sobriety besides AA. I'm a loner I did best working it out by myself.


I’ve had frank discussions with my son about his beliefs. He believes in God, but does not have a close relationship or strong commitment to anything. Am I okay with that? No. But other than asking him to consider his faith and relationship with God, there is not much more to do. I pray he will get a close relationship with his God for many reasons, not the least of which is it would help him overcome his addictions and anxiety problems. Aside from eternal reasons.

My son is a loner too.That’s amazing you overcame alcoholism on your own. I suspect that is rare. But I’m glad it worked for you.
 
Actually more people overcome it on their own than people that go to AA. I read only about 20% of people that attend AA stay sober. I worked in human services for years. Most inpatient treatment programs are only a week or 2 because that’s all the insurance will pay. A sober living house is a great long term solution for a year or 2 too help people have support before they do it alone. Not everyone needs to hit bottom. Some people get a wake up call such as almost losing a job or spouse and that’s the impetus to get sober.
 
I'm glad there are many available approaches to treating alcoholism, in part because most alcoholics try several different times using different ways. AA has helped a lot of people, most of them had tried to quit on their own and were not successful. Maybe they would eventually have succeeded on their own, but it is very easy to find people who will tell you they would be dead today had they not become a "friend of Bill." Some alcoholics achieve sobriety after detox and inpatient programs. Some finally get there after one-on-one counselling. Some get sober in prison. The "failure" rates for all of these approaches is high, because the alcoholic will try many of them, "failing" at each, often several times. What is most important is the successes.
Many people can't accept the 12 steps of AA. Okay, if they are going to fight the program while fighting their alcohol addiction, then maybe AA isn't a good fit for them.. But it has worked for millions of others. It might have saved my mom's life, but she was too smart/sophisticated/worldly for AA. And she never did find a way out of her addiction.
 
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I’m very sorry for what you’re going through, Muir. My sister is an alcoholic and has been binge drinking for almost 20 years now. I agree with Calico’s post. Until the alcoholic has a genuine desire to change, nothing you do will motivate them.

I have chosen to maintain a relationship with my sister, but have also set boundaries. I won’t go to see her in Florida any more because the last three times I was there, she got drunk at least part of the time I was there. I won’t talk with her while she’s under the influence, which is pretty easy to determine over the phone. And I won’t bail her out of any bad situations, financial, legal or otherwise. Sometimes it’s hard because I feel like I’m being cold-hearted, but then I remind myself that the problems she has are a result of her choices. Alcoholism may be a disease, but I believe it can be overcome when the alcoholic is motivated to do so.

I have accepted that my sister will likely die prematurely and may never stop drinking. I have also accepted that there is nothing I can do. She had a kidney removed a few years ago and that didn’t slow her down. Unfortunately the addiction is often the most important thing in an alcoholic’s life. When they’re sober, they may see that their life is in a downward spiral, but many can’t seem to take the actions needed to recover. And many, including my sister, refuse to accept responsibility for the consequences of their life choices.

I hope your son is different and will be one of the success stories. And I wish you peace.
 
My DF and DB were both alcoholics. My DF got saved (3) years before he died at the age of 54 and quick drinking instantly the day he got saved. My DB was a Vietnam veteran. He volunteered twice to go to Vietnam. I was his rock for 25 years until my DH said I needed to choose between my alcoholic brother or him. I chose my DH of course. DH did that because he could see how my DB behavior was affecting me.

DS was becoming an alcoholic. He lost his job and we let him move in with us. He called from jail and we bailed him out with the statement, everyone is entitled to one big mistake in their life and this is your one time get out of jail free card. He moved in with us and after 1 year of not working etc we gave him (6) months to get his life together then he would have to move out. He was depressed and we offered to pay for him to go see a therapist. He declined because he didn't think he was depressed.

Fast forward to the 6 month period. He moved out on the last day in with a friend who didn't have anything. He got a job and walked to work. We saw our 6'2" tall son go from 195 down to 175 pounds. We were there if he needed help like taking him to buy groceries etc. We did not get involved. It was the hardest thing I have ever personally done.

Little by little he came around. (3) years later, he now has a great stable job and is engaged to a Nurse Practitioner and doing well. He still drinks some but not like he use to.

Wishing you the best in your situation. Realize for your own piece of mind that you can not make him change. It has to be them that make the changes.

Do not ever, ever lose hope.

Praying for him and you.
 
At least your son is not a methhead. Our daughter drags drug dealers and drug addicts into our house--one after another. Then she brought thieves into our lives. And she doesn't drink alcohol or smoke pot. But she also has been in jail too many times for little violations--like failure to give a turn sign and not showing up for court or paying the fine.

Methheads don't think normally, and the stuff makes them mean. They don't admit they have a problem and that the drug fries your brain--and that it's wrong to use. They don't care that we have to raise a daughter. It takes a full year to get the stuff out of their heads, and then the chance of them overcoming their problem is very, very low. Few methheads overcome the problem without intensive therapy--of which they cannot afford. And every methhead requires different therapy techniques--not one for all approaches.

By all means try to sell your son on the evils of alcohol. It does destroy relationships and lives every day. But it's much easier to deal with than many substances.
 
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At least your son is not a methhead. Our daughter drags drug dealers and drug addicts into our house--one after another. Then she brought thieves into our lives. And she doesn't drink alcohol or smoke pot. But she also has been in jail too many times for little violations--like failure to give a turn sign and not showing up for court or paying the fine.

Methheads don't think normally, and the stuff makes them mean. They don't admit they have a problem and that the drug fries your brain--and that it's wrong to use. They don't care that we have to raise a daughter. It takes a full year to get the stuff out of their heads, and then the chance of them overcoming their problem is very, very low. Few methheads overcome the problem without intensive therapy--of which they cannot afford. And every methhead requires different therapy techniques--not one for all approaches.

By all means try to sell your son on the evils of alcohol. It does destroy relationships and lives every day. But it's much easier to deal with than many substances.
I'm sorry for what you are going through. I've seen meth up close and the insanity that goes with it. We were in KC in 96, drove through Independence MO daily, "The Meth Capital of the World " according to Rolling Stone magazine.

I watched people p*ss away their lives, families, businesses.... it was truly sad.

People do break free, I saw some miracles. People walking out of hell and coming back to the real world. I sincerly hope you receive a miracle in your life.
 
BM, my son also uses meth. He has been in and out of prison for possession. A few years ago he got clean, had a job and lived in a apartment complex for recovery people. It lasted for a year and we were very supportive. Then back to drugs and homeless for past 2 years. At least he never had kids.
 
At least your son is not a methhead. Our daughter drags drug dealers and drug addicts into our house--one after another. Then she brought thieves into our lives. And she doesn't drink alcohol or smoke pot. But she also has been in jail too many times for little violations--like failure to give a turn sign and not showing up for court or paying the fine.

Methheads don't think normally, and the stuff makes them mean. They don't admit they have a problem and that the drug fries your brain--and that it's wrong to use. They don't care that we have to raise a daughter. It takes a full year to get the stuff out of their heads, and then the chance of them overcoming their problem is very, very low. Few methheads overcome the problem without intensive therapy--of which they cannot afford. And every methhead requires different therapy techniques--not one for all approaches.

By all means try to sell your son on the evils of alcohol. It does destroy relationships and lives every day. But it's much easier to deal with than many substances.


Bamaman,
I remember the gist of your story from previous posts. I have nothing to offer you accept my sincere prayers and sympathies. You and your spouse are highly commendable for raising your granddaughter. I wish you peace, hope, perseverance, and blessings in the days ahead. Addiction is heartless.

There are plenty of drugs to make you lose your mind. There are no drugs that can simply bring you to your senses.
 
My 29 year old daughter is on meth and from our vantage point, is at rock bottom. I picked her up from a very dangerous situation today after her car was stolen by a friend and she was being hunted by some recent acquaintances she had been staying with.

So much of what has been said in this thread could have been written about our daughter and the situation DW and I find ourselves in. I will be praying for you and following this discussion.
 
Alcoholism is as serious as cancer, heart disease, diabetes, or any other disease/affliction that can cause suffering and death. For a successful outcome, it needs to be addressed with the same tenacity as we give these other diseases. If a person had lung cancer or heart disease and was told he could be symptom free by spending a few hours a week in heartfelt participation in a meeting, by taking an inexpensive drug for a few months, and by making some lifelong changes in how they viewed themselves and how they react to certain circumstances in their lives, and ultimately by just eliminating one type of beverage from their diet, I'm pretty sure most folks would jump at the chance to do these things. The fact that alcoholics find it very hard to do so tells a lot, IMO, about the way society views this disease, about our individual powers of denial, and (mostly) about the grip that alcohol (and other addictive substances) can have on the human mind.

+100. Alcoholism is a disease. For some reason the inherited gene follows the men in my family, even "paternal" male cousins. My mom didn't drink.

My Dad and my brother. My Dad quit drinking during his "career" and then started again. In his 70's, we did interventions, a couple of detox programs but nothing really worked again until he got lung cancer. He had neurological damage from the alcohol, dropped foot, etc. Then he passed at age 82.

My brother started young with both alcohol and drugs. It was a constant source of worry for my parents and us. Many interventions, detox programs and half way houses-all expensive. Yes, he was jailed-actually bailed out one Christmas morning. Yes there were DUI's. Yes there was stealing from my parents. Yes there were local banks that gave him credit cards or loans my parents had to pay off. I guess because the banks knew my family.

Finally, he hit bottom when he lost his license, his freedom and any semblance of life. Nothing worked until he hit absolute rock bottom. He chose to go to NA. He had a wonderful mentor and has been clean now for over 25 years. We are all so proud of him as he goes around the country giving speeches at NA conventions, has his own successful business, got married for the first time about 3 years ago, etc. I go to his "clean birthdays". The most important thing is he is alive. My parents got to see him clean. He put what I think was his 5 or 10 year clean medallion in mom's coffin.

But I will tell you Muir, all of this spanned probably 15 to 20 years before he joined NA, made a life changing commitment and basically made NA his family and worked the program all day every day. As I said, he started young. He had to change his social network, get new friends that didn't drink or do drugs, etc.

Lots of good advice in this thread. My brother will tell you, he will not help anyone that won't help themselves first and make a commitment to NA or AA.

One last comment I didn't see here is that if your son continues to drink, if he is in the throes of any bing, don't let him detox by himself or without medical supervision. I say this not knowing the extent of the alcoholism. With my Dad, if he was any without a drink for too long, we sometimes had to give him alcohol to prevent him from going into the DT's (delirium tremens) which are withdrawals symptoms from alcohol withdrawal. Am hoping your son's alcoholism has not developed to this extent yet.

Lastly, you are doing the rights things with Al-Anon support, being there for him but not allowing him to take advantage. Definitely easier said than done. While my parents did everything they could, enabling him in the process for so very many years towards the end they offered him food and shelter at their house and that was about it.

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. Alcoholism is a horrible disease.

Edit: My thoughts go out to all on this thread dealing with substance abuse and loved ones. Many posts were added that I had not read prior to posting mine.
 
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I have been sober for 22 years, and relied on AA heavily for the first several years. Although I never particularly cared for the religious/“higher power” parts of the program, I did meet very kind, supportive people who helped me a lot, particularly early in sobriety.

Some of the recommendations here are very good, and all are well-meaning. With that in mind, here’s my two cents:

90 meetings in 90 days is great, but no real magic. For AA to “sink in” you sometimes have to hear the points repeatedly, but by far the most impactful experience is when you hear someone speak of their experience, and something clicks; maybe you make a friend, maybe you just decide that this particular meeting isn’t so bad after all, maybe you just go home laughing and it occurs to you that your life just might not be over because you really are an alcoholic.

Anti-depressants/anti-anxiety drugs are often very helpful. For me Prozac was a wonder drug, though I didn’t take it until about three years after getting sober. If a drug isn’t doing what it is supposed to do, go back to the doctor and ask for something else. SSRI’s are a pretty safe class of drugs.

I would not recommend antabuse. My sister took it many years ago and it helped her, but IMO The consequences of a relapse while on the drug are too severe to make it worth the risk.

Every alcoholic has to hit bottom but it need not always be a low bottom. I never had a problem at work and never got a DUI, but I knew I was an alcoholic because of other problems. Yet I did not want to quit drinking because I was scared to death that I would have to quit forever, and I really couldn’t face that. At one of my first AA meetings I was introduced to the concept of “one day at a time.” I didn’t have to quit forever; I could choose just not to drink today. That’s why AA members often measure sobriety in days, not years.

Ergo, perhaps you could convince your son to try a period of temporary sobriety. If he will have to go to court for the DUI he can genuinely impress the judge by showing that he has gone to AA meetings - every meeting has a secretary who can sign a piece of paper to verify your son’s attendance at the meeting. If he collects a number of signatures, and particularly if he can say that he has not had a drink in x number of days, he may be able to lessen the penalty.

One of the hardest things about your son’s situation is his youth. I didn’t quit drinking until I was 40, but I was a problem drinker from my first drink. If I had quit when I was 23 I could have spared myself a lot of suffering, but in general I have zero regrets. At the same time, I am grateful that I never had a car accident that hurt or killed someone (some of the very saddest stories in AA are from those who did have that fate) and that my family always stayed very supportive despite some fairly irresponsible behavior on my part.

Most of the sober people I know never went through a formal rehab program.

In short, you can’t control your son but you can talk to him and encourage him. Showing love is not enabling. I wish for the very best for both you and your son.
 
Alanon

First of all, I am so sorry that your son has fallen into the disease of alcoholism. I first went to Alanon because my husband, who I love very much, became an alcoholic late in life.

I could not believe it. Alcohol was in our lives but never to a great deal. I myself did not really drink much...I would have a glass of wine with a meal or when out with friends but then drink coffee.

I almost fell over when my husband admitted to having a problem with alcohol. I had noticed the depression but never would have believed he had a drinking problem.

Well, I watched him go through a terrible time quitting the booze and he was sober for about 8 years. Then he started drinking again and my life really fell apart. But a good friend suggested I go to an Alanon meeting.

I can honestly say that organization saved my sanity and marriage. I am not saying that Alanon will save your son. That is really up to him. He has help if he wants it but it will probably not be you. I learned that I have NO control over his drinking...not one bit. But he can find help in AA. Just not drinking is not enough....he should learn how to embrace life again without alcohol and he can learn that in the rooms.

But the most important thing I learned was that my love and worry about the alcoholic made me very ill myself. I was driving myself guilty with worry and misplaced love. I learned how not to enable, I learned how to look after myself, and I learned that I was not alone.

Please go to an Alanon meeting. If one does not work for you, go to another...they are all run basically the same but have slightly different feelings depending on the members. The one I belonged to had many people my age and I felt comfortable there.

That was about 10 years ago and although my husband found recovery along with sobriety...and yes there is a difference...that is why his first attempt was not successful...I still go to meetings. I go to help keep the doors open. Each week we have at least one newcomer...alcoholism is a very large problem and I want to make sure the door is open to anyone looking for help.

Please go...it would be one of the greatest gifts you could give yourself.
 
Hey Muir,

If you might be interested in "talking" to other parents in similar situations, you may want to visit Conduct Disorders/Parent Emeritus.

Frequenting this site helped me tremendously during the depths of despair, and still.

Best wishes; I am thinking about you this evening.
 

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