Are Full Oil Changes Gone Forever?

[JoeWras]

This topic is now about a typo and not the last full oil change. Even this oil manufacturer says you should change their oil at regular intervals.

No typos ever stopped us from piling on and drifting a thread.

Hey, at least the days of 3,500 mile changes are gone. I'm comfortable with 5k, and even getting more comfortable with the 7k to 9k idea.

But the change has to happen. Filters can't filter out diluted oil from gasoline blow by, for example.

 

[Zathras]

Yes! Full, partial, and all other associated oil changes are gone forever for those of us driving a BEV.

+1
It’s been 10 years since my last oil change

 

[braumeister]

Mu current car as well as the last three all had their oil changed every 10K miles, because that's what the owner's manual said to do. I figure the manufacturer ought to have the best knowledge of what works.

But that said, I almost never keep a car past 150K miles so I don't know if this is the best practice long term.

 

[Montecfo]

Ok so new plan=old plan.

Good talk!

It is cautionary for the user car buyer. But there is Carfax. Not perfect but it helps.

 

[Andre1969]

I'd be leery. In the late 70's, GM started bragging about the long-life, 100,000 mile oil change intervals on its new, lightweight THM200 transmission. Back in those days, it was still common to change your transmission fluid every year/12,000 miles, even though some service manuals were touting 30,000 or 60,000 mile intervals.

Anyway, such optimism is one reason that today GM is a mere shell of its former glory, and the imports have a much stronger market presence these days.

Of course, it didn't help matters much when they mated that transmission up to some of their V8s, and in cars that really were too heavy for it. The twisted irony however, was that if you got, say, an '80 Malibu with the 305 V8, it was mated to the lightweight THM200. If you got the standard 229 V6, they used the beefier, more durable THM350! I heard GM's rationale for that was that the V6 cars with the beefier transmission already got fuel mileage good enough for EPA standards and the CAFE averages. But the V8 models needed a little help, and the lighter-duty transmission didn't sap as much horsepower, so it gave slightly better fuel economy. And GM's bean counters -er engineers deemed it "good enough" for those bigger engines.

 

[wrigley]

Most new vehicles will recommend synthetic oil and an oil change interval to not exceed 10,000 miles. I change the oil (and filter) in all of my vehicles every 5000 miles religiously. Oil and filters have been steadily going up in price, but IMO changing your oil is still one of the cheapest, preventative maintenance tasks that you can perform which benefits your vehicle. If you don't put a lot of miles on your vehicle, you should absolutely change the oil and filter at least annually.

Mike

 

[Badger]

Oh, all oil changes include a filter change. I remember having a VW that’s did not have an oil filter, just a screen to remove big stuff in the oil.

https://youtu.be/xdNCnYHhEm8?si=XvBUQvEbYb34wwYl

https://youtu.be/TevK-u3vkx4?si=wm1oxKMMGGPpTW78

My first VW was in 1973 with eventually 5 other VW models to follow. Not knowing how to take care of a car I bought tools and a manual to teach myself how to do a tune-up, change the oil, and adjust valves. It turns out I enjoyed that simple job. I did this every 3000 miles with proper weight "dino" oil. I remember the screen and magnetic drain plug would need to be well cleaned each time. Now I have a Santa Fe and changing oil requires that you first remove a large plastic pan covering the engine bottom so it goes to the dealer every 7500 miles. Age has caught up and I miss those olden days.

Cheers!

 

[ncbill]

Once a year for the majority of my vehicles which use synthetic oil.

None of the above get driven more than 3,000 miles annually, though.

A couple of times a year for the last one that still uses dino oil.

That one probably gets driven 9,000 miles a year.

 

[Jerry1]

Most new vehicles will recommend synthetic oil and an oil change interval to not exceed 10,000 miles. I change the oil (and filter) in all of my vehicles every 5000 miles religiously. Oil and filters have been steadily going up in price, but IMO changing your oil is still one of the cheapest, preventative maintenance tasks that you can perform which benefits your vehicle. If you don't put a lot of miles on your vehicle, you should absolutely change the oil and filter at least annually.

Mike

My process exactly. Every 5K miles is easy to remember and usually is about 30% left on the vehicle’s oil life indicator.

 

[Chuckanut]

No typos ever stopped us from piling on and drifting a thread.

Hey, at least the days of 3,500 mile changes are gone. I'm comfortable with 5k, and even getting more comfortable with the 7k to 9k idea.

But the change has to happen. Filters can't filter out diluted oil from gasoline blow by, for example.

Drifting is one of the most useful ways of learning new things and enriching the discussion. Or a great way to frustrate the OP who sees his question about how to properly caulk new rain gutters change to a discussion of AI powered can openers.

IIRC, the CareCareNut fellow says that gasoline in the oil is one of the main reasons for doing oil changes at 5000 miles and not the 10,000 miles in the manual. The gasoline damaged oil stays in your engine until you drain it out.

 

[pjigar]

I have been doing full oil changes on all my cars exactly as my car manual says which happens to be between 8K and 10K miles. My cars have odometer readings ranging from 90K to 160K. They all run fine without any engine issues ever. YMMV.

PS: All but one of my cars call for full synthetic oil. The conventional oil car is Ford explorer with on-board oil monitor (so I don't track how many miles between oil changes but my guess is 8K) which has 90K on odometer.

 

[Car-Guy]

At one time I always changed my oil and filter every 5k miles. Now, I still change the oil at 5k but I only change the filter at 10k intervals.

 

[ERD50]

... If you don't put a lot of miles on your vehicle, you should absolutely change the oil and filter at least annually.

Mike

While that's sound advice, and stated in at least some owner's manuals, I'm going to question the "absolute" need for this.

DW and I only put ~ 2,000 ~ 3,000 annual miles on each of our cars. If we keep them 15 years, that's only 45,000 lifetime miles.

I really doubt that stretching that oil change out to 18 months, or even 2 years, is going to result in significant wear at 45,000 miles, on an engine that can easily be expected to last 150K ~ 200K miles with 10,000 mile oil changes.

The real 'test' (literally!) is to get the oil tested. Maybe I'll do that out of curiosity. But there must be some data on-line, something that shows average test results of oil at X miles and Y months?

Sure, you can say "cheap insurance", I won't argue that. But I'm lazy and cheap and hate to waste anything, if it can reasonably be avoided.

-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

A guy on the RAV4 Facebook group puts about 10,000 miles a month on his 2020 RAV4. From one of his recent posts:

Mileage Milestone Day!!! Another Month Another 10K Miles Driven!
This Now Puts My 2020 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE @ 430,000 Miles.

Maintenance Completed:
43rd Oil Change & Tire Rotation

No Other Issues To Report.

This Rav4 Rolls Onward!

I believe he delivers urgently needed medical supplies over a vast expanse of territory.

 

[bloom2708]

I will continue to change the oil every 6k to 7k miles or 2 x per year (spring and fall). The numbers usually work out.

I do full synthetic and rotate the tires. 15k is too long even on full synthetic oil IMO.

 

[RetMD21]

While that's sound advice, and stated in at least some owner's manuals, I'm going to question the "absolute" need for this.

DW and I only put ~ 2,000 ~ 3,000 annual miles on each of our cars. If we keep them 15 years, that's only 45,000 lifetime miles.

I really doubt that stretching that oil change out to 18 months, or even 2 years, is going to result in significant wear at 45,000 miles, on an engine that can easily be expected to last 150K ~ 200K miles with 10,000 mile oil changes.

The real 'test' (literally!) is to get the oil tested. ......

-ERD50

Project Farm did the oil testing at 14 and 17 months in 2 low mileage vehicles and the oil was fine

 

[aja8888]

My new 20023 Bolt EUV has three (3) separate fluid cooling systems (and related pumps). One is for lubricating the drive motor transmission (3 piece gear set and mainshaft bearings) and uses Dexron auto transmission fluid.

Love these new EV's but they are not fluid free. If you throw in the hydraulic brake system, you can add one more fluid system.

 

[stephenson]

It seems to make no sense to use non-synthetic oils. The price between synthetic and high quality non-synthetic (which btw, have a LOT of additive packages in them) is too close.

It also seems to make no sense to change oil any more often than needed - and needed, with modern gasoline engines, is certainly no sooner than 10,000 miles. Most testing shows one can go far longer in normal use scenarios. Far longer.

Like so many things, 3000, 5000, 7500, etc oil changes are specified for reasons that may be particular to a "system" vs the consumer. And, IMO, about 95% is insurance (OEM), marketing (oil manufacturer), marketing (oil changers), etc.

As noted, the increasing percentages of EVs will change sooooo much.

Personal experience:
- started using synthetic engine oil in 1975
- started using synthetic automatic transmission fluid soon thereafter
- started using synthetic manual gearbox oil in 1980
- started using synthetic differential oil around 1980
- always used synthetic oil in lawnmower, trimmers, outboard motors, home generators, etc
- never found anything metallic anything on either engine or transmission plugs (on auto trans with lots of miles there might be a thin layer of metallic dust mixed in with fluid)
- did have a chips light on a 4,600 HP turbine with synthetic oil (shut down but no chip found when oil drained)

 

[Sunset]

Most new vehicles will recommend synthetic oil and an oil change interval to not exceed 10,000 miles. I change the oil (and filter) in all of my vehicles every 5000 miles religiously. Oil and filters have been steadily going up in price, but IMO changing your oil is still one of the cheapest, preventative maintenance tasks that you can perform which benefits your vehicle. If you don't put a lot of miles on your vehicle, you should absolutely change the oil and filter at least annually.

+1
It's not too hard and I feel I'm getting a break as I used to do it every 3,500 miles in the old days and I drove more then too.

Now it works out to about once per year for each vehicle, even if didn't do all 5K miles.

 

[audreyh1]

My new 20023 Bolt EUV has three (3) separate fluid cooling systems (and related pumps). One is for lubricating the drive motor transmission (3 piece gear set and mainshaft bearings) and uses Dexron auto transmission fluid.

Love these new EV's but they are not fluid free. If you throw in the hydraulic brake system, you can add one more fluid system.

How often do you need to change them?

 

[stephenson]

Sunset brings up another interesting point ... is there really a timeline associated with synthetic oil? If one only puts 5,000 miles on their car in a year, is there really a technical reason to change it? Technical reason - as in knowing the oil is damaging something inside the engine, or causing the filter media to break down, or ... whatever.

Sure - if it is still in warranty - follow the warranty, but that is for insurance purposes.

I have one car in the garage that I drive about 1,000 a year ... should I change the nearly perfectly clean oil at 12 months? And, yeah, when I do drive it, I drive it pretty hard.

 

[ERD50]

Project Farm did the oil testing at 14 and 17 months in 2 low mileage vehicles and the oil was fine ...

Thanks, I especially like that the TBN values looked good. I should add her car gets a longer trip most weeks, 15~20 minutes out to pick up g-kids from day-care, and 15~20 minutes back after that short stop, so that should(?) be enough to boil off moisture build up, I think? We use my car for other trips, so mine gets a trip like that or longer maybe every other week. But otherwise it is pretty short runs, we have lots of shopping/restaurants nearby.

I also found one ref on "bob's the oil guy" forum of someone who tested their low-mile oil at 2 and 3 year intervals, and it was still good. But others not so much?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-analysis-for-cars-with-low-mileage.260632/

I had an analysis done on a low mileage car where I put 2000 miles (one tank trips)on it in a three year period, the analysis was very good and was told I could go longer. Alot depends how it is driven.

I have a truck that sees 800 miles a year. Mostly highway miles and it's always heated up fully before it's parked again. Very easy on the oil. By the second year the TBN is almost depleted.

But even "almost depleted" by year 2, could mean it has plenty of average protection over those two years to keep an engine happy for 50,000 miles and 15 years?

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Sunset brings up another interesting point ... is there really a timeline associated with synthetic oil? If one only puts 5,000 miles on their car in a year, is there really a technical reason to change it? Technical reason - as in knowing the oil is damaging something inside the engine, or causing the filter media to break down, or ... whatever. ....

Yes, things *can* happen, but it doesn't sound likely, based on the evidence, especially if you do get it up to temperature to boil off water.

The additives can breakdown (but those tests don't seem to show a problem?). If the oil has water in it, I think that could lead to pitting the bearings over time - but as noted, get it warmed up good regularly, and this doesn't seem to be a problem either.

Which leads to a question - our cars seem to get to temperature pretty quickly (based on an actual analog coolant temperature gauge). I don't recall how 'quickly' that is, but even in winter, it seems to only take maybe 5 minutes to be getting pretty good heat? So maybe just a few minutes most of the year? I assume the oil has come up to temperature by this time as well. So how long does it need to be up to temperature to boil off a week or two of short runs?

-ERD50

 

[stephenson]

I'm not certain the oil temp increases as much as the coolant. Only one of my cars has an oil temp gauge - and, it significantly lags the coolant - but, the oil does not really need to be as warm as the coolant for normal ops - mine typically has increased to about the same over a few miles of driving.

 

[aja8888]

How often do you need to change them?

There is no set maintenance schedule per GM, although on the GM Bolt forums, people have replaced coolant at 150 K miles and brake fluid at 60 K as a general maintenance practice (preventive).

Any coolant loop work on these cars requires following detailed procedures for adequate flushing via an airvac unit. Best left to the dealer to do this, if necessary.