Are Full Oil Changes Gone Forever?

[38Chevy454]

Synthetic oils flow better at cold temps, and have better high temp breakdown resistance. So they are a better oil. But all engine oils do get contaminated and the additive packages break down; that is ultimately why you do need to fully change the oil and filter at some interval, not to exceed mfr's recommendations. You can do it sooner, certainly won't hurt and new oil change is relatively cheap. Especially if you DIY.

I have several old cars that don't get a lot of miles. I do not change oil each year. But they also are stored inside a temp controlled garage so do not get the condensation issues like stored outside. Couple of my old cars don't even have oil filters!

There is nothing wrong with dino oil, in fact most labeled synthetics are really just extra refined dino oils and have extra additive packages. But synthetic oil is generally a better product on an equal comparison basis.

 

[stephenson]

Well, as usual, there is a minor terminology issue - again, maybe related to marketing?

Here' a wiki citation on synthetic oil - 'splains difference between 100% synthetic - and "fully" synthetic - depends on what ya start with ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

Sorry, 38Chevy454, I disagree re your comment "...not to excel mgr's recommendations." This kind of statement gets us back into technical vs marketing vs beliefs, etc. I would certainly agree that keeping the engines in controlled environment is helpful, but given an occasional extended run to burn off condensation in the exhaust systems (remember when they used to rust?), the engine is probably gonna be fine.

A bit off topic - lots of interesting stories on YouTube - one guy rebuilding an old twin engine airplane - insides of the engine look surprisingly OK for 17 years sitting on a ramp and being full of bird droppings and nests.

 

[HI Bill]

In my college physics class, my professor was a car guy. He lamented the fact that you could have synthetic oil last a really long time (perhaps 50K miles) IF the manufacturer would install a high efficiency oil filter. I'm no mechanic, but metal particles, oil breakdown, accumulation of 'gunk', water, and foreign matter in the oil are all reasons to change your oil. My wife has a RAV4. I went about 5 years before the synthetic oil became visibly dirty and started to break down. But this was living in Hawaii, driving only 3K miles per year. YMMV.

 

[EvanC]

You all are going to hate this reply but my mechanic changed the oil today on 2022 Lexus ES300h the car only has 5000k mi on it.

I love my mechanic/body guy. I have been using him for 27 years. Whatever Pete says, I do and the maintenance bills are pretty cheap.

I have a 2011 Honda CRZ 75K miles. I have no idea what kind of oil it has but I change it every 3500
The wife drives a 2022 Lexus ES300h. I think we bought it in November. We're retired and don't drive much, maybe 7500k a year.
The book says to change the oil 7500 miles. Pete says 5000 so that's what we do. I changed the oil on that car today.

Yep the new car is a hybrid, synthetic oil and we get 46 miles per gallon (thanks for letting me brag)

I have friends that always push the oil change/maintenance for reasons of time or cost and they always have car problems.
Do what grandpa says and listen to your trusted honest mechanic, change the oil.

If you choose the right shop, trust the guy that does it for a living, follow his advice, and be loyal.



Sorry for the rant, people have told me I'm nuts for being overly loyal
I think they are wrong. Ive been using the same HVAC guy for 30 years.

 

[dmpi]

I would normally change the oil at 7500 miles or 9 months which ever comes first. But now I got a new Toyota and the car tells me when to change the oil. The recommended first oil change is 10,000 miles or one year. Why would I not just follow Toyota's advice? The idea of your car lasting 300K vs. 200K is overrated. The biggest risk in a car isn't having its engine wear out rather it's getting into an accident and the car getting totaled. With the current price of labor & car parts all it takes is the airbags going off or even the headlights getting damaged and the dollars will add up real quick. There's a reason why you don't see 20+ year old cars on the road and it's not because their engines wore out.

 

[stephenson]

Evan, my sense is that you are kidding, right?

Mechanics don't do oil changes - that's usually a lower level "oil change guy/gal."

Pete does not sound like someone I would trust ... 5,000 mile oil changes on a synthetic oil in a non-commercial modern vehicle? No way.

Again, I hope you were kidding.

 

[ERD50]

Evan, my sense is that you are kidding, right?

Mechanics don't do oil changes - that's usually a lower level "oil change guy/gal."

Pete does not sound like someone I would trust ... 5,000 mile oil changes on a synthetic oil in a non-commercial modern vehicle? No way.

Again, I hope you were kidding.

Even if Evan (say that 10x fast!) is not kidding, it's just anecdotes with no data to back it up. Not convincing at all.

And how do you know you found the 'right guy'? Sounds circular - "I trust him because he's the right guy, and I know he's the right guy because he's a guy I can trust"?

I have friends that always push the oil change/maintenance for reasons of time or cost and they always have car problems.

I've pushed them as soon as the car is out of warranty, kept my last car for 17 years, DW's car is 12 years old now. No engine problems whatsoever. Wanna be my friend?

-ERD50

 

[EvanC]

Even if Evan (say that 10x fast!) is not kidding, it's just anecdotes with no data to back it up. Not convincing at all.

And how do you know you found the 'right guy'? Sounds circular - "I trust him because he's the right guy, and I know he's the right guy because he's a guy I can trust"?



I've pushed them as soon as the car is out of warranty, kept my last car for 17 years, DW's car is 12 years old now. No engine problems whatsoever. Wanna be my friend?

-ERD50

Sure we can be friends. And I am truly happy for you.

I told you that most of you would hate my post;-)


Actually I'm not kidding, That's exactly what I do and how I take care of the cars.Overkill maybe but Pete is always there for me. Do I have data of course not. Is it overkill, maybe.


My post is about trust and loyalty. I shouldn't jix it but basic maintenance is all the past 4 cars I have owned ever needed.


Before Pete It was always more than routine every time I went to a shop did I really need brakes liners or ball joints or something else.


Change the oil,rotate the tires and let Pete keep an eye on stuff. I'm telling you he's honest an proven over 27years. And hes entitled to a living
I wasn't trying to get anyone to do it my way...this is what I do.

In all honesty I could see 15k synthetic oil change and better filters. But what data do you trust ....that is still advertising?
Should I try that out on my new Lexus and change the oil every 15K miles as a test? And see how it goes. That sounds like an expensive test.


Good honest folks are like gold keep them around no matter what.

 

[EvanC]

"And how do you know you found the 'right guy'? Sounds circular - "I trust him because he's the right guy, and I know he's the right guy because he's a guy I can trust"?"


Because he doesn't rip you off. The work is good and he has proven he is honest time after time. We all should know when there is a subject we are not expert in, you use your judgement the first few times and see how your treated. After 27 years hes honest.


Once took the Honda in it blew 3 codes and only ran 10mph its a Hybrid. He could have told me anything. $500 board, Fuel pump...anything. $750. for this whatever

It was bad gas. he cleaned it out and told me to run a few tanks of hi test $120.total I think that was 2 years ago no problem since.
You go where you want, I'm going to my honest guy;-)



And change your oil. It gives you a chance to say hi to an honest guy that you don't see very often.

 

[fishfactory]

dmpi, I believe your physics professor was correct. The type of oil is much less important than a good filter and change frequency. Particles are the enemy of an engine far above oil breakdown.

 

[CaptTom]

I don't quite understand the OP. Is anyone suggesting changing the filter but not the oil? Never heard of that. Not even sure if you could. I've heard of changing the oil but not the filter. Doesn't seem worth it though, either way.

 

[Gumby]

If you're going to do the work, do both. It's cheap insurance against engine problems.

 

[jazz4cash]

I don't quite understand the OP. Is anyone suggesting changing the filter but not the oil? Never heard of that. Not even sure if you could. I've heard of changing the oil but not the filter. Doesn't seem worth it though, either way.

I think the original idea was to change filters not oil based on a promo ad that was flawed. Reading the fine print revealed that the oil company did require both oil and filter to be changed per auto mfr’s recommendation.

 

[ERD50]

Sure we can be friends. And I am truly happy for you.

I told you that most of you would hate my post;-)


Actually I'm not kidding, That's exactly what I do and how I take care of the cars.Overkill maybe but Pete is always there for me. Do I have data of course not. Is it overkill, maybe.
....

No hating, but I often push back against posts containing dubious 'information'.

A mechanic that isn't trying to over-sell you is a good sign, glad you found one. But that doesn't mean his views on oil changes mean anything, and you inferred it did. And you inferred you had data, when you said:

Quote:
I have friends that always push the oil change/maintenance for reasons of time or cost and they always have car problems.

Even if that's true (I'm skeptical if we are talking a reasonable 'push' of oil changes and oil change related 'problems').

In all honesty I could see 15k synthetic oil change and better filters. But what data do you trust ....that is still advertising?

No, I don't trust advertising. I apply some knowledge and logic to the situation (not all cases are the same), and I trust data. Again, it's case dependent, but I've read (and know of) cases where people have had the oil tested (real data), and it was still very good long after the mfg recommendation, and way past what many preach.

Again, in my case, I likely won't put more than 50,000 miles on our cars over a 15 year period. Pushing the oil changes (after the warranty period) to 18 or 24 months is unlikely to cause an engine wear issue within 50,000 miles. I went 17 years on my previos car, no issues). If I wanted to get 150~200K out of an engine, well, I'd be putting more miles on it, so I'd be changing more often (calendar-wise) anyhow. I'd be hitting 10K in a year, so annual changes fit just fine in most cases. But at 2-3K, I'll stretch the calendar, and not worry about engine wear.

-ERD50

 

[pacergal]

EvanC--I hear you. We have a very trusted mechanic we have gone to for over 30 years. Locally owned Family gas station/mechanics/fuel company since 1929.

We have our oil changed about every 5000 miles, (once a year now that we are retired!)

 

[ERD50]

Further to this:

Quote:
I have friends that always push the oil change/maintenance for reasons of time or cost and they always have car problems.

There just is very little maintenance on cars today. What are they 'pushing'?

I looked at my manual, other than the oil/filter, the only engine related maintenance is:

Air Filter - 45K miles or 4 years (I check more often as I just change it myself it's so easy).

Plugs - 60K miles.

Acc Belt - 150K miles or 10 years.

Coolant - 150K miles or 5 years (I'm behind on that, should get it done next time I bring it in for something).

also - Brake fluid change 3 years (I'm behind on that as well, will get it done soon).

plus cabin filter, 22.5K miles or 2 years, but that's not going to cause a problem that won't be remedied by simply replacing it if it got clogged. I visual inspect and clean it. Again, at 3,000 miles a year, it's not getting much air flow. I'm comfortable with inspect.

Oh, tire rotation - but this is unlikely to cause a problem, other than some premature/uneven wear.

I can't imagine how your friends could be having so many problems? Some hyperbole there?

-ERD50

 

[rmcelwee]

I have one car in the garage that I drive about 1,000 a year ... should I change the nearly perfectly clean oil at 12 months? And, yeah, when I do drive it, I drive it pretty hard.

We had a car that we only drove twice per year, 500 miles each trip. We drove it very hard and changed the oil EVERY trip. Yes, every 6 months and 500 miles on each change. I could not think of a reason not to do it that way. It had an oil cooled turbo. I liked to joke, but it was mostly true, that I changed the oil, checked all fluids, rotated the tires and washed the car every single time we drove it.

 

[Midpack]

I don't quite understand the OP. Is anyone suggesting changing the filter but not the oil? Never heard of that. Not even sure if you could. I've heard of changing the oil but not the filter. Doesn't seem worth it though, either way.

I think the original idea was to change filters not oil based on a promo ad that was flawed. Reading the fine print revealed that the oil company did require both oil and filter to be changed per auto mfr’s recommendation.

IT WAS ESTABLISHED A WHILE AGO THE OP WAS MISTAKEN.

Never made sense to begin with. How exactly would you change the oil filter without changing the oil since removing the filter drains a lot of the oil for most cars...put the old dirty oil back in again?

 

[Sunset]

We had a car that we only drove twice per year, 500 miles each trip. We drove it very hard and changed the oil EVERY trip. Yes, every 6 months and 500 miles on each change. I could not think of a reason not to do it that way. It had an oil cooled turbo. I liked to joke, but it was mostly true, that I changed the oil, checked all fluids, rotated the tires and washed the car every single time we drove it.

Great looking trailer !!

I would have changed the oil once per year in your case, but doing it more often can't hurt.

 

[rmcelwee]

Great looking trailer !!

I would have changed the oil once per year in your case, but doing it more often can't hurt.

Thanks! I built it myself out of another Miata that I cut in half.

I never grabbed the data for it but I bet we would hit the redline RPM at least 200 times each day with the brakes discs glowing red and smoking at most stops. (I forgot to mention that I would flush the brakes every trip too) I would say that the oil changes were very cheap insurance.

 

[stephenson]

Actually, no - oil is pumped into/out of most oil filters - usually a tiny bit gets out from lower block access and spills sometimes from the filter - but, on top mounted canister filters it's easy.

Now, to the changing filter interim to the oil, one can speculate - but, darn, it is hard to find a lot of long term data or analysis. As an example, one could certainly just change their filter at 5,000 miles, then oil and filter at 10,000 miles - but, that would not prove anything since modern engines have less particulates and blow by (excepting diesels - a different discussion) and the oil and the filter are certainly built for 10,000 miles. Double it and people start to feel squishy - but, again, little data - unless you are tracking with oil analysis, which one can do with a pump system - then, just change when you understand the chemistry package or oil is breaking down. Certainly cheaper than changing the oil - and, there is no threat to the oil. I know this would make a couple of posters uncomfortable, but it is done by major fleet services in hard service environments.

So, applying more miles - let's say you are testing and oil chemistry is looking great, but your oil pressure is higher than normal (most won't know because oil pressure switches are for low pressure, not high - and, most cars don't have oil pressure gauges) - so, you decide to change just the filter, which you find lowers your oil pressure - and, then you test the oil after 5,000 more miles and it is fine ... hmmm ... does this mean you need to change your oil. Most would feel increasing squishy at 50,000 miles, right?

What kind of miles? Gas or Diesel engine (huge difference here)? Altitude? Environmental temperature profile over time? Compression ratio? Turbo or superchargers? Direct injection gasoline system? 100% synthetic or full synthetic? Premium oils or off the shelf stuff? Power output per pound of engine? Normal operating RPM? How much time to warm up from cold in very cold climates? How about climates at 100°F plus where the engines need little time to get to operating temp when the computer trims back from cold start?

Some great online articles on the science of oil analysis ... and, yeah, this is fun stuff!

 

[EvanC]

Further to this:



There just is very little maintenance on cars today. What are they 'pushing'?

I looked at my manual, other than the oil/filter, the only engine related maintenance is:

Air Filter - 45K miles or 4 years (I check more often as I just change it myself it's so easy).

Plugs - 60K miles.

Acc Belt - 150K miles or 10 years.

Coolant - 150K miles or 5 years (I'm behind on that, should get it done next time I bring it in for something).

also - Brake fluid change 3 years (I'm behind on that as well, will get it done soon).

plus cabin filter, 22.5K miles or 2 years, but that's not going to cause a problem that won't be remedied by simply replacing it if it got clogged. I visual inspect and clean it. Again, at 3,000 miles a year, it's not getting much air flow. I'm comfortable with inspect.

Oh, tire rotation - but this is unlikely to cause a problem, other than some premature/uneven wear.

I can't imagine how your friends could be having so many problems? Some hyperbole there?

-ERD50

Yep, All of those things you mentioned. I have 2 friends and 1 relative that never do any of them. And all are complain about how their car runs or doesn't.
I'm promoting maintenance. It's not a personal attack on anyone. Take care of your car and it will take care of you.

A friend of my adult son never changed his oil,I can't say what never is I never checked his mileage. One day his car was dead. It's a real story, I know this because after the fact my son had his friend tow the car to my trusted mechanic...who pronounced it dead.

Doesn't everybody know somebody that doesn't take care of a car and has problems?

 

[ERD50]

Yep, All of those things you mentioned. I have 2 friends and 1 relative that never do any of them. And all are complain about how their care runs or doesn't or something. I'm promoting maintenance. It's not a personal attack on anyone. Take care of your car and it will take care of you.

A friend of my adult son never changed his oil,I can't say what never is I never checked his mileage. One day his care was dead. It's a real story.

Doesn't everybody know somebody that doesn't take care of a car and has problems?

You are very loose with words. Most people would say that to "push the oil change/maintenance for reasons of time or cost" is very different from saying they "never do any of them".

Not conducive to a meaningful conversation.

-ERD50

 

[rmcelwee]

Fun fact for those of you trying to save on oil. The 74 year old tractor that I am restoring suggests an oil change for the air cleaner EVERY DAY. This is more than 45 GALLONS per year!

 

[Car-Guy]

Diesel engines (assume that's a diesel) are dirty and oil (back in those days) was pretty bad/crude.