2HOTinPHX
Full time employment: Posting here.
Great replies....I will take them all in...thanks and happy holidays.
I've priced the materials at Lowe's, Menards, etc and $2500 (at retail) would cover it. Most of the businesses advertise "one day installation" for these, so even figuring $200 per hour for 2 people for 8 hours (and I know that one person does most of the work)
This was one of the calculations that really struck me when we got estimates done. These contractors won't let you buy your own components, they supply all. Still, knowing the cost of their components and subtracting these costs from the total estimate, the amount of labor was about $14,000. I then ask how long it will take for the job to be completed, and the sales rep, with a straight face, answers, "with two people takes about 3 days." I'm furiously calculating in my head $14,000 by 3 day @ 8 hours a day x 2 people, well, that's about $300 per hour!
... These contractors won't let you buy your own components, they supply all.....
You are forgetting all of the other costs to the business. First of all, you spoke to a sales rep. He/she needs to get paid. Then there’s overhead: liability insurance, vehicles and insurance, capital (tools, office), maybe benefits such as health insurance for the workers. All that adds up to the “cost of doing business” and a good business person recoups that (or soon go out of business).
Whenever we are contemplating a large project, I expect it to cost us $X for materials if we do it ourselves and $3X if we hire it out. I’m usually pretty close.
You are forgetting all of the other costs to the business. First of all, you spoke to a sales rep. He/she needs to get paid. Then there’s overhead: liability insurance, vehicles and insurance, capital (tools, office), maybe benefits such as health insurance for the workers. All that adds up to the “cost of doing business” and a good business person recoups that (or soon go out of business).
Whenever we are contemplating a large project, I expect it to cost us $X for materials if we do it ourselves and $3X if we hire it out. I’m usually pretty close.
There's a few reasons for this. A contractor wouldn't trust that the owner would buy the right materials, quality materials, materials that they were used to working with, and the right quantity of materials.
And of course they buy at a discount and want to pocket the discount themselves.
Not to mention that when the products that the customer provides fail. They will no doubt put the blame on the contractor. I used to ask my customers if they would bring their own hamburger into McDonald’s and ask them to cook it.
This is huge. It may be the #1 complaint I see contractors talk about regarding customers on forums, especially the plumbing forums.
"Look at this <expletive> Amazon faucet. Cheap <expletive>. I'll get blamed for this automatic call back for sure."
Plumbers also relay a lot of stories of going to a home, shutting off a valve and charging just their trip charge of say typically $100. Customers expect that 1 minute to be completely free. Nevermind the gas, wear and tear, administrative, and knowledge costs involved.
. It wasn’t like she came out to do a quote, she was there to work and an unexpected issue came to light.
Plumbing and unexpected issues go hand in hand. The degree of issues goes up for each year the house ages.
On the bath conversion project I discussed above, it was the plumbing that was our surprise. It wasn't the supply. We simply terminated the copper with Pex and that was easy. It was the drain.
Because we got the beefy enclosure, the drain was set back about 1" farther from the wall than the very thin tub. Perhaps a thin enclosure would match the tub exactly, but who knows? In the last 40 years, standards have changed.
Anyway, that 1" landed the drain square on a floor joist. Argh, problems.
This is huge. It may be the #1 complaint I see contractors talk about regarding customers on forums, especially the plumbing forums.
"Look at this <expletive> Amazon faucet. Cheap <expletive>. I'll get blamed for this automatic call back for sure."
Plumbers also relay a lot of stories of going to a home, shutting off a valve and charging just their trip charge of say typically $100. Customers expect that 1 minute to be completely free. Nevermind the gas, wear and tear, administrative, and knowledge costs involved.
I can see that both ways. Owner has a plumber scheduled to come to fix something, the plumber arrives and refuses to work unless the owner replaces the valves. Owner doesn't want to so says no. The plumber has done nothing other than arrive and refused to work unless the scope of work is expanded and made the owner's life more complicated because now the owner has to find another plumber. I don't blame the owner for refusing to pay the $50 trip charge... the plumber didn't do anything.Yeah, we have a plumber on Nextdoor that most seem to love but she ment to a house and the valves were so bad she said she wouldn’t do the work unless he agreed to replace the valves. He said no and she tried to charge him $50 for the visit/time spent and he wouldn’t. It wasn’t like she came out to do a quote, she was there to work and an unexpected issue came to light.
I can see that both ways. Owner has a plumber scheduled to come to fix something, the plumber arrives and refuses to work unless the owner replaces the valves. Owner doesn't want to so says no. The plumber has done nothing other than arrive and refused to work unless the scope of work is expanded and made the owner's life more complicated because now the owner has to find another plumber. I don't blame the owner for refusing to pay the $50 trip charge... the plumber didn't do anything.
When we built our house our plumber preferred that we buy our faucets and fixtures... we got what we wanted and they didn't have to spend time handholding us. Same for the tile guy, he preferred that we buy the tile, grout etc.This is huge. It may be the #1 complaint I see contractors talk about regarding customers on forums, especially the plumbing forums.
"Look at this <expletive> Amazon faucet. Cheap <expletive>. I'll get blamed for this automatic call back for sure."
Plumbers also relay a lot of stories of going to a home, shutting off a valve and charging just their trip charge of say typically $100. Customers expect that 1 minute to be completely free. Nevermind the gas, wear and tear, administrative, and knowledge costs involved.
I get your point, but the plumber came to do work. They didn’t come to do a quote. They found an issue that would have to be dealt with and the customer refused. I’m not sure of the entire circumstances, but I think it’s reasonable for the plumber to get paid for the service call. It would be better if they were clear that they expect payment for the visit regardless of any other work being performed. In a way, they did do something. They diagnosed a problem with the valves. If they were correct, it’s unlikely any other plumber will do the work without dealing with the valves. And, if they try it and the valves break, there may be a bigger problem (bill) to deal with.