Asking for raise

[maggieddd]

I would like to get your advice on how to ask a boss for a raise.
Here is my situation. I am an Information Technologist for a small office. I was an intern there and was hired full time after my graduation. The pay was up to par with the industry at the time of my graduation. Well, I've been working there full time for the past 6 years now. The things have changed drastically for the worse. Everyone who was working there was pretty much fired or relocated and all the new people hired their friends and acquaintances. They got rid of my boss who did know technology and could exactly tell what I was doing, working on. They have me report to a business director who has no clue about technology. On my last review he stated that I have no work to do and that I should be learning about business. What I do is: take care of the network, email, I am a web master/web designer, graphic designer, I provide tech support for the whole office (30 computers), I take care of the cell phones and Blackberrys. The new people that got hired all started at a higher salary than what I make, including administrative assistants. There were two people who retired after I had my review and I was given additional tasks (not related to my job) and I have not received any compensation for it. I found out that there was another person who was making way less than me and she asked for a raise twice already and they gave it to her (but she was given a good review because she has a different direct supervisor who is her best friend) She makes more than I do now. I'd like to approach my boss about it. Of course I can't mention that I know others got raises. I think I would like to write him a memo showing him what others are making doing the same thing in similar industries, and outline my extra duties. I am having a hard time finding out what somone with this job should be making, as it seems to me that this is a combination of different jobs.
How do you guys think I should handle that?

 

[rs0460a]

You can start here:

http://www.computerworld.com/action...TOC&specialReportId=9000182&articleId=9004820

Also, try some searches on other IT trade mags.

- Ron

 

[grumpy]

maggie,

I would suggest getting a resume out there to test the waters. If you get another offer you will have a salary level to compare to what you now earn. You can then go to your current boss and ask if they will match the offer. If not, then vote with your feet.

Grumpy

 

[bright eyed]

doesn't sound like a promising situation - sorry

i would do two things - i would start looking for a new job - it doesn't sound like you work in a great environment.

if you get a promising offer, but like the job you are at better, then ask for a raise. if they don't give it to you, take the new job.

if you just go the raise route, i would make sure that you write down everything that you do on a weekly basis. also, figure out a way to make sure your direct supervisor - and whoever else has a say in your raise, is aware of what you are working on. also, have other staff who benefit from your services make comments to your supervisor. it is unfair for him to give you a mediocre review if he doesn't have a clear sense of all your duties, but at the same time, not likely he will give you a raise if his perspective is what you say.

they haven't given you a raise or increase in six years?

 

[F M All]

I also agree with bright eyed - who is quicker than me

Maggie, I agree with Ron and Grumpy, research the market and prepare your resume. If you should apply elsewhere and get another offer it would be very useful in negotiations. Also, review everything you do and prepare a job description for your current job, considering the benefit to the organisation of each activity. When you talk to your boss you can discuss the positive impact of what you do or the negative impact if it were not to be done.

Good Luck

 

[maggieddd]

thank you all for wonderful suggestions. I have been upset before and looked for another job. I did find one and was offered a position, paying more than my current job. The problem is that I cannot find a job that would offer me the same benefits as my current job and that's the biggest problem. Even with increased salary at the other job after deducting all the benefits I get here it didn't make sense to go for a new job. I have researched many potiential employers and nobody offers the benefits my job offers. That's why I am stuck at this place with lower salary but better benefits, not sure what to do.

 

[Brat]

Consider what higher pay, compounded over time, will buy in benefits.

It is hard to discuss the benefits provided by your current employer when we don't know what they are. If, for example, the health insurance provides benefits that you use and are not usually available elsewhere, then it has high value. If it is vacation time consider whether or not you are able to use it (use or loose is common), calculate the difference as a % of pay and graph its value over a couple years with a new employer. It is possible to negotiate a 'signing bonus' with a new employer to offset the lower vacation time for the first couple years, after which you could well catch up.

Do you have a 401(k)? Are you vested? Compare carefully what the other employer offers.. could be better or worse.

The long term reward of accepting another position is professional development.

 

[F M All]

thank you all for wonderful suggestions. I have been upset before and looked for another job. I did find one and was offered a position, paying more than my current job. The problem is that I cannot find a job that would offer me the same benefits as my current job and that's the biggest problem. Even with increased salary at the other job after deducting all the benefits I get here it didn't make sense to go for a new job. I have researched many potiential employers and nobody offers the benefits my job offers. That's why I am stuck at this place with lower salary but better benefits, not sure what to do.

Maggie, I think you have already worked this out but salary is only part of your compensation, you need to look at the total picture to make a comparison - salary, benefits, working environment, prospects for advancement, work life balance, commute .....etc. Some of these can be valued in $$, others it is harder to compare.

 

[Meadbh]

That's why I am stuck at this place with lower salary but better benefits, not sure what to do.

Maggie, you are only stuck if you allow yourself to be stuck. Don't be a victim. First, collect the data: what you do, your value to the company, and the market value of your work. Approach your employer with the data and outline what it will take to keep you. By that stage, you will have a good idea of the best decision for you.

This approach has worked for me on two occasions. Both times I ended up with a substantial raise.

 

[uncledrz]

When you receive an offer, it need not be treated as the company's final offer. If the salary is acceptable, counter with the additional benefits you need.

If the job you are now in does not value your work, its time to move on.

 

[rs0460a]

Maggie, you are only stuck if you allow yourself to be stuck.

Interesting subject. Twice in my life, I was offered the suggestion "if you don't like it, you have two options (the front door, or the back door )". These two "options" were offered during a family conflict and a job conflict.

In both cases, I took "one of the doors". In both cases, it was the right thing to do, and my life turned out "better" for it .

Life's too short to put up with the "bull"; make your best decision and go with it (if it was wrong, you can alter the course and go in another direction later - but I doubt that will happen).

Good luck in any decision you make...

- Ron

 

[bright eyed]

here's a motivating story:

my BIL just switched jobs after nearly a year of complacency, not that happy, worked too hard for what he was being paid. He took his time looking around and finally made the jump. He couldn't be happier and can't believe he put up with what he put up with for so long.

nobody is saying to be rash - just be happy, appreciated and well compensated (or at least adequately - appropriately?!) compensated for it.

IT work is valuable, if your supervisor had "business sense" they would appreciate you. if in fact you do your job well! and aren't reading magazines back there by the server...

 

[Peaceful_Warrior]

When my manager said she didn't know what I did, I started sending her weekly status reports on Fridays.

She never questioned my efforts again.

 

[laurence]

I was in the exact same boat. You have to ask yourself if you can work in this environment for the rest of your career. If not, then are you gaining new skills that will be valuable at the next company. If not, then you need to start making an exit plan. Benefits vs. raise debates are important to factor in, but as a young dreamer, sometimes you need to take a step back in order to make the long term gains. Working on blackberries etc. is never going to pay big bucks, even if you are doing more advanced server/network work as well. The IT generalist has become supply heavy and demand lite, especially if UNIX/Linux skils are not involved. You need to find a specialization with a clear path up and a company large enough to give you that path, IMHO. Just like there is no margin in selling PC's, there's not much margin in fixing them, either. Databases, security, unix admin, SAN engineering, etc. are all viable routes.

Working a small company as an IT generalist in 2000 - made $35,000
Got a job at a subcontractor for a large company as a desktop support specialist rolling out images, doing break fix tickets etc. - made $48,000 to start.
Became the Exchange Administrator, then moved into security, moved up two more pay grades and now make ~$80,000 and I'm in the running for an IT management position this summer which should land me between $90-100k.

The small companies always tried to tell me how good I had it, but being able to come in late or wear sneakers doesn't move one towards FIRE. Now if you are already making 80-100k, well then by all means, count your blessings!

 

[cube_rat]

I recently walked away from mega corp to a small, privately owned company and couldn't be more happier. I can't believe all of the crap I put up with!! I should've just worn signs that said "kick me cause I'm stupid" or "I'm a freaking masochist". My position is still being advertised to this day. Mega corp couldn't pay me enough to go back!

 

[laurence]

Yeah, but your skill set is way above mine! You can generate product all on your own, you are money in the bank. My type of skills need an infrastructure to support to be worth much.

 

[cube_rat]

wassup Laurence

 

[Brat]

Exactly what Laurence said...

You are just beginning to build your career. Don't be boxed in by the myopia of others.

 

[Nords]

My position is still being advertised to this day.

Everyone's afraid they'll end up looking like your avatar... or your Kathy Bates photo!

 

[Peaceful_Warrior]

Am I the only one that works for Mega corp and actually finds it better than any other startup or mega corp I've worked for?

Great pay and excellent benefits, enjoyable work (most of the time, but at worst it's never actually "bad") that lets me express my creativity and communication strengths, coworkers who respect and work with me, and flexible hours with telecommuting whenever I want as long as I don't have in-person meetings.

I recently walked away from mega corp to a small, privately owned company and couldn't be more happier. I can't believe all of the crap I put up with!! I should've just worn signs that said "kick me cause I'm stupid" or "I'm a freaking masochist". My position is still being advertised to this day. Mega corp couldn't pay me enough to go back!
[/quote

 

[Nords]

Am I the only one that works for Mega corp and actually finds it better than any other startup or mega corp I've worked for?

Well, let's see how this stacks up against the U.S. Navy's submarine force:

Great pay

Check.

excellent benefits

Check.

enjoyable work

Eh, well, uhm, aaaaah, OK. Most of the time. Check.

but at worst it's never actually "bad"

Whoops.

that lets me express my creativity and communication strengths

Yeah, right. That's what they taught us to call it when the boss's forehead veins were pumping and his face was turning red and the paint was peeling from him creatively expressing those communications strengths...

coworkers who respect and work with me

Pretty much. We'll give that a "check".

flexible hours with telecommuting whenever I want as long as I don't have in-person meetings.

Oh stop, you're killin' me here!! "Flexible"-- yeah, that's what my weekend working hours were called. I telecommuted many a long mile for them "flexible" hours.

Checklist complete. Anyone want to try to do better?

 

[maggieddd]

Thanks again for replies.
Well my benefits are:
1. Retirement 403b, the employer always contribues 9% no matter how much I contribute
2. Free tuition at local schools
3. 12 paid holidays
4. 4 personal days
5. 4 weeks vacation, can carry over up to 44 days every year as long as I work there
6. I pay $60/month for health and dental for family plan and it is a very good plan
7. 14 sick days
8. Flex time. No working on the weekends either. I am not on call 24/7
9. Work 35hrs/week
10. There are other small perks and benefits which currently escape my mind...

I do use my vacations a lot and my boss does allow me to take 4-5 weeks off at a time (I like to take a lot time off at one time not lots of small vacations as I travel to distant locations)
I am the only IT person at my job and can do pretty much anything I want as long as I get my things done and things are running smoothly. (I don't read magazines by the server BTW )

Since my last review I started to send my boss weekly reports every Friday on the work I have done during that week.

So far everywhere I looked the benefits were not that great. Usually 5% retirement, $400/month health care, 2 weeks vacations etc.
That's why it's been hard for me to make a move and get myself another job.

 

[laurence]

So if the actual pay is enough to meet your goals, then you sound set in a lot of ways. But you might have to take a step back to take a step forward. If they pay all your tuition, then at the very least, get whatever next degree is logical ASAP! You might find a lot more opportunities/offers after that!

 

[Craig]

maggieddd, Laurence is giving you great advice.

Only thing I saw from others that I would respectfully suggest against is letting your boss know you have another job offer, if it comes to that. Those situations seldom work out ... after telling your boss you're ready to leave, you have a job offer in hand, and then your boss gives you a raise to keep you there ... well, you usually end up getting fired shortly thereafter. Just sours the water.

If you ever do get a job offer that you might take, but you want to stay at your job ... just tell your boss you need a raise, and give him a number to shoot for, slightly above your offer (because he'll likely haircut your number). If he hits it, great. If not, adios, nicely, and you gave him / her a chance.

You have very good benefits indeed, and that long vacation will be very, very tough to replace.

The employees who are valued most highly in business are those who clearly create shareholder value ... they help make the owners rich. (I recognize gov't agencies are a different animal ...) Make sure your boss and others know when you've created bottom line improvements. [You can also take any annual bottom line savings / profits you create, and divide by the bottom line / pretax / EBT margin ... gives you the equivalent sales to create that bottom line. Makes it a bigger number, and some people only "get" sales.] I recognize in your job it may be tough to show bottom line improvements ... but go after it if you see the opportunity.

So keep reporting your successes and work to your boss, try to do some larger improvements to the business that create real value ... and make sure your boss and others know what you've done. Also, get that training Laurence mentions ... keep building your resume.

Always hedge whenever you can. Be ready for that change of jobs ... it will come. Have liquid savings, for six months from my perspective. Keep your training up. Network with others who might provide job leads. And get a home equity credit line if you own your home. Liquidity is key ... both in money, and job skills.

Sorry to go on so, but I am near the end of my career ... perspectives born of many years.

Best of luck.

 

[maggieddd]

OK, so I decided to take some classes at the local college (free ). I am interested in UNIX and databases. They have Intro to Unix and Programming in Forth Generation Language (MySQL). I would like to learn both. Wondering which one I should start with. I am thinking of gaining more advanced skills and perhaps move on one day.