Big trips on a tightwad budget?

[DrRoy]

1. I got burned before when booking with a 3rd-party discount fare site (don't remember which one) - but they are so much cheaper than going direct w/ airlines. Any reason I should avoid them? (In this case, Expedia, Booking.com, Orbitz, Priceline)

2. Why are flights that connect *through* Madrid cheaper than flights that just *stop* in Madrid?

3. The longest leg on the cheapest flight I have found so far is almost 11 hours (Mexico City > Madrid) - how much will I regret not upgrading to any level that has a bit more legroom?

4. I have set an arbitrary $10k budget for travel per year, and this one trip appears to be a very short distance from blowing right through that number. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just the new normal?

5. The flights alone look like they will be about 25% of the cost - does this sound about right?

6. Are flights cheaper in September vs. April/May?

Another go at it:
1. If something goes wrong, you are much better off with a direct booking.
2. There is much more competition with flights that connect on to anywhere, than to just Madrid.
3. We have started booking business class on overnight flights where you are trying to sleep, then coach return.
4. $10K is plenty modest for 7 weeks. The new normal.
5. The % is not important.
6. Air ticket prices are the airlines trying to maximize revenue in the dynamic of supply vs. demand.

 

[athena53]

Final tip - not budget related but important... Limit yourself to a carry on bag and a daypack. It is so much easier to navigate without hauling half of home with you. Especially if you are travelling by train, plane, or any method other than a rental car.

I did that last September- lots of headlines about luggage being misplaced. Although it was a good decision given the times, there was SO much I wanted to bring home but couldn't- local honey, balsamic vinegar, wine.. even truffles, which they sold at Duty-Free in small jars with a bit of liquid. I knew it was enough liquid that some zealous "security" person might confiscate it. I may bring my slightly larger bag (still fits in the overhead) and check it on the way home this time.

I agree on counting on having to drag your stuff up steps and along cobblestone streets. I never take more than I can handle comfortably by myself.

 

[COcheesehead]

Final tip - not budget related but important... Limit yourself to a carry on bag and a daypack. It is so much easier to navigage without hauling half of home with you. Especially if you are travelling by train, plane, or any method other than a rental car.

I have learned to love those compression sleeves. We can pack for a two week trip in carry on size bags.

 

[Surewhitey]

We did a 2015 trip in France, Spain, Italy and a cruise for 40 days and squeaked in just under $9k in off season Feb and March. Never went hungry for a great meal in a variety of rooms (don't remember any bad ones).

Just did a couple of weeks in Italy in September and was probably in for $4k.

Planning a Spain & Portugal trip now for April and May (3 weeks).
Starting the air search on Google flights and booking direct, non stop on American (appx $700/rt to Madrid). We also had about $900 in credits we needed to use...

Leg room is nice, but not a deal breaker for us folks who have short legs. Sometimes they upgrade for free if they are available (just did it for Italy).

Meals are around $75/day for 2 in our experience, usually 2 meals daily. Hotels are very varying. We are typically around $80/nt folks. All in, we usually come in around $200/day budget inclusive of everything on a 2-3 week trip. Usually using miles or credits for air...train travel for most other travel.

Our lower budget trips are to Mexico beaches in QROO. We lived there & know how everything "works"...

 

[Chuckanut]

Final tip - not budget related but important... Limit yourself to a carry on bag and a daypack. It is so much easier to navigage without hauling half of home with you. Especially if you are travelling by train, plane, or any method other than a rental car.
__________________

This is one of the best pieces of advice that people gave to us and we have passed on.

Since retiring we each travel with light weight international size carry on. A roller-two top notch in line wheels (in our early seventies) Our day bag is a small nylon bag that collapses into the size of my spouses fist..and weights nothing.

Does not matter if we are gone for a week or nine weeks. All the same to us.

Even if you have a rental car you need to take less. Both or our bags fit perfectly in the back of a Fiat Panda...with the back cover over them. We leave nothing in plain view. Our preferred rental car in Italy. Standard transmission. Not to mention lugging bags along cobblestones or up two or three flights of stairs to a B&B or small family hotel.

I am curious. When you pack this lite, there must be compromises. For example, laundry probably needs to be done every few days, even if it's only washing out the garments in the hotel room sink. The traveling iron and electric toothbrush and charger probably stay home. No suit and tie for that dinner at a fashionable restaurant with the high and mighty. And where do you put the snorkels and fins for your stay at the beach resort? OK, I am kidding about the suit and swim gear.

I think I am talking myself into starting another thread

 

[dixonge]

Final tip - not budget related but important... Limit yourself to a carry on bag and a daypack. It is so much easier to navigage without hauling half of home with you. Especially if you are travelling by train, plane, or any method other than a rental car.
__________________

This is one of the best pieces of advice that people gave to us and we have passed on.

Since retiring we each travel with light weight international size carry on. A roller-two top notch in line wheels (in our early seventies) Our day bag is a small nylon bag that collapses into the size of my spouses fist..and weights nothing.

Any time we fly w/ just carry-on it is always *so nice* to just bypass the luggage carousel and walk straight to customs and get a jumpstart on it

Airlines are prohibited from "Cabotage." They can't carry passengers from one foreign country to another. For example, a United Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Narita can go on to Seoul, but it cannot take on passengers in Tokyo and carry them to Seoul.

So if you are flying from Mexico (assumed based on your post) to, say Germany, Iberia, a Spain-flagged carrier must stop you in Spain first. I realize things have gotten much more complicated in the EU but that could very well explain the extra cost if not connecting through Madrid. Regulations may impose a punative tax. Or, the last leg may be a code-share flight on a low-cost carrier affiliate.

Cabotage is in general still applied worldwide but specific rules between individual countries are based on a complex net of bilateral agreements. Even within Europe, economic regulation of airlines is still complicated.

I have never found the 3rd party sites a good value. I booked with them years ago but have almost always gotten better results booking directly with airlines and hotels.

I personally pay for extra legroom on long haul flights (4+ hours) and stay loyal to star alliance which, pre-covid, got me upgraded to first class or business class at least 1/3 of th etime worldwide and 1/2 the time Hawaii to mainland. You can subscribe to economy plus on United for you plus companion worldwide for $1000 a year. That would likely be cheaper than paying for premium economy. Maybe your preferred carrier has a similar option. The alternative for me was to plan a "dead day" to recover from the flight. This would typically cost more so I rarely did it personally although business travel rules usually permitted it so I have done this.

With 7 weeks, I might skip the extra legroom and do a dead day. It's really a personal call. If you are 6 ft 7 with circulatory issues, pay up. If you can tolerate a few extra hours in coach, you know what it is costing you.

Avoiding high seasons in Eurone will save you money but both April and September are low seasons so you just need to shop around. Having lived in Northern Europe, weather is likely to be better in April but certainly no guarantees.

What I've noticed is things like flights to Madrid go through Lisbon, but going to Lisbon goes through Madrid. I don't remember any specific airlines involved, just odd that the longer connection flight is more expensive than anything direct.

I was unaware of United's annual subscription, but current prices show that it is $1,600 for global economy plus. We are planning a max of two major trips/year, so I'm not sure if we would ever get break-even on that one (not to mention if United flies from Mexico to Europe, or South America).

Another go at it:
1. If something goes wrong, you are much better off with a direct booking.
2. There is much more competition with flights that connect on to anywhere, than to just Madrid.
3. We have started booking business class on overnight flights where you are trying to sleep, then coach return.
4. $10K is plenty modest for 7 weeks. The new normal.
5. The % is not important.
6. Air ticket prices are the airlines trying to maximize revenue in the dynamic of supply vs. demand.

All solid advice, thanks!

I have learned to love those compression sleeves. We can pack for a two week trip in carry on size bags.

I was unaware of this - one-way air valves! Very helpful, Marie Kondo would be so proud lol

Leg room is nice, but not a deal breaker for us folks who have short legs. Sometimes they upgrade for free if they are available (just did it for Italy).
<snip>
Meals are around $75/day for 2 in our experience, usually 2 meals daily. Hotels are very varying. We are typically around $80/nt folks. All in, we usually come in around $200/day budget inclusive of everything on a 2-3 week trip. Usually using miles or credits for air...train travel for most other travel.

We're not particularly tall, so that's a good point.

 

[brett]

I am curious. When you pack this lite, there must be compromises. For example, laundry probably needs to be done every few days, even if it's only washing out the garments in the hotel room sink. The traveling iron and electric toothbrush probably stay home. No suit and tie for that dinner at a fashionable restaurant with the high and mighty. And where do you put the snorkels and fins for your stay at the beach resort? OK, I am kidding about the suit and swim gear.

I think I am talking myself into starting another thread.

We have been doing it so long that now, whenever we shop for clothing we end up looking at what is lightweight, what will travel well, what can be used for different seasons. We only take clothing that can be used multiple times. When we return from a trip we consider what we unpack to determine if we used it very much. If not, it stays home next time and something else replaces it.

We cut down on shoes. I take two pair. One on my feet and a second pair of lightweight Tiva waterproof sandals. No electric toothbrush or iron. My spouse actually changed her hair style and color in order to make it so much easier to travel.

One issue is weight. It is not unusual for us, if we are travelling for nine weeks, to take several flights on domestic carriers. Many, many of them have a size restriction AND a weight restriction for carry on. Often 7 or 8 kg. And many do weight. Our bags were weighed twice by Jeststar in Brisbane, Australia....at the checkin and at the gate. In Kuala Lumpur AIr Asia often has a team at the security gate of their end of the terminal with scales! Others do not bother. It is a crap shoot depending where you go. More than once I have taken heavier items out of my carry on and placed them in my jacket pocket just in case. Most airlines will give you up to 1KG of leeway.

 

[Music Lover]

7. Others may disagree, but I find food cost to be pretty cheap the world over---whether it's Paris and London (where I took my family last summer) or Sydney and Melbourne (where I just visited over the holidays). As long as you're not doing fine dining and don't drink, it's very easy to eat cheaply or inexpensively. I was probably averaging USD $20 pp per meal on my trips this past year.

2 people x 3 meals is $120 a day. That's $3600 a month, not cheap if you're on a budget.

As others have mentioned, get a place with a kitchen or at least a microwave and fridge. Then 2 people can eat for $20 a day, $600 a month. Eat as a treat or on days when it's not convenient to eat where you are staying. If you'll be gone all day pack a lunch if it won't interfere in your planned activities.

 

[Teacher Terry]

2 people x 3 meals is $120 a day. That's $3600 a month, not cheap if you're on a budget.

As others have mentioned, get a place with a kitchen or at least a microwave and fridge. Then 2 people can eat for $20 a day, $600 a month. Eat as a treat or on days when it's not convenient to eat where you are staying. If you'll be gone all day pack a lunch if it won't interfere in your planned activities.

The hotels that I have stayed in usually include breakfast and 3 meals is too much food so only need to pay for dinner. I don’t know any older people that eat 3 meals.

 

[dixonge]

The hotels that I have stayed in usually include breakfast and 3 meals is too much food so only need to pay for dinner. I don’t know any older people that eat 3 meals.

As vegans, we are quite limited on eating out. Hotel breakfast bars have a few things we can eat (bagels, cereal, etc.) but we rarely get any value from it. @MusicLover was right, any place w/ a microwave and fridge helps us out a lot. It's not about the money, just the selection. We're used to making our own meals.

 

[meleana]

So I finally got into the right mental space to allow myself the luxury of traveling like we've always wanted to, but without the backpacks and hostels. Current trip length is around 7 weeks. I've been pricing every possible combination of itineraries I can come up with from either Guadalajara, Mexico City or D/FW on this end to Lisbon, Madrid or Paris on the other. I have questions for the seasoned Europe travelers out there:

1. I got burned before when booking with a 3rd-party discount fare site (don't remember which one) - but they are so much cheaper than going direct w/ airlines. Any reason I should avoid them? (In this case, Expedia, Booking.com, Orbitz, Priceline)

2. Why are flights that connect *through* Madrid cheaper than flights that just *stop* in Madrid?

3. The longest leg on the cheapest flight I have found so far is almost 11 hours (Mexico City > Madrid) - how much will I regret not upgrading to any level that has a bit more legroom?

4. I have set an arbitrary $10k budget for travel per year, and this one trip appears to be a very short distance from blowing right through that number. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just the new normal?

5. The flights alone look like they will be about 25% of the cost - does this sound about right?

6. Are flights cheaper in September vs. April/May?

I have not yet estimated food costs. We are vegan, although I suspect we will be more vegetarian on this trip. We are not foodies looking for 3-star Michelin eperiences, we are happy with mom-and-pop restaurants. Does anyone have an idea of daily restaurant budget? 2 adults no kids.

We’re actually going to spend well over $7000 for just a 1 week tour to South Dakota. Why so expensive? Because we haven’t travelled since before the pandemic and I don’t like what is going on with the airlines especially, plus I have a health issue.

So instead of doing independent travel which is what we’ve normally done and prefer, we are doing a Collette tour including their airfare, booked through a travel agent, with their cancel for any reason insurance that includes the airfare.
Staying in one residence inn - includes the breakfasts there and a couple of dinners.

I just want to do the trip, enjoy it and get home. I hope we can go and I hope it works out..

 

[mabuhay]

We have been doing it so long that now, whenever we shop for clothing we end up looking at what is lightweight, what will travel well, what can be used for different seasons. We only take clothing that can be used multiple times. When we return from a trip we consider what we unpack to determine if we used it very much. If not, it stays home next time and something else replaces it.

We cut down on shoes. I take two pair. One on my feet and a second pair of lightweight Tiva waterproof sandals. No electric toothbrush or iron. My spouse actually changed her hair style and color in order to make it so much easier to travel.

One issue is weight. It is not unusual for us, if we are travelling for nine weeks, to take several flights on domestic carriers. Many, many of them have a size restriction AND a weight restriction for carry on. Often 7 or 8 kg. And many do weight. Our bags were weighed twice by Jeststar in Brisbane, Australia....at the checkin and at the gate. In Kuala Lumpur AIr Asia often has a team at the security gate of their end of the terminal with scales! Others do not bother. It is a crap shoot depending where you go. More than once I have taken heavier items out of my carry on and placed them in my jacket pocket just in case. Most airlines will give you up to 1KG of leeway.

^^^ This.. for travel in Southeast Asia. I'm currently here myself, using just an international (not US size) carry-on, along with a backpack. I do have a home base to use here though on this trip. Enough clothes for a week at most - the advantage here is no heavy winter wear required - only have one pair of lightweight long pants for example. Sandals and one pair of running shoes for walking.

Food and lodging is so much cheaper in SE Asia - one can eat well for $20-25/day. Nice rooms for $40-50, even in Bangkok, half that outside of the larger cities and tourist spots. I tend to stay in one place for a week or two which also cuts travel costs. I generally book through Agoda or Booking.com which both have decent customer service.

An advantage to living in a nice part of the desert southwest is I have the option of renting my home to snowbirds if I travel for longer periods. The income is enough to cover the cost of travel in SE Asia or Mexico. I don't use any service (like VRBO) for that as it's not allowed in my HOA - it is only to known parties (friends of friends) for 1-2 months at a time minimum.

As far as travel in general - I never book through 3rd parties like Expedia or Orbitz - you are asking for trouble when things go awry. Use google flights to get an idea of cheapest carrier then book directly, with a date range, as prices often vary by day. I always go Prem Economy.

It does help to have a couple favored carriers as the status helps with early boarding and occasional upgrades. Same with a hotel chain - I use IHG and generally use my annual free night for my stopover in Honolulu.

 

[tmitchell]

I use flights.google.com to shop airfare. I play around with start and end dates because sometimes there can be a dramatic difference leaving a day earlier or later. It lets you change your class (economy, premium, biz, first) pretty easily so you can compare prices.

I also start 'shopping' for airfare for up to 2 months prior to buying. That way I can see what the price trends are - and if it dips I pounce. I typically check 2-3 times a week.

I use vrbo/airbnb for lodging if it's more than 1 night... So much nicer to make coffee in my jammies before getting ready to go sightseeing. And if we're tired, we grab food and wine and eat dinner at the apartment. This was a really big deal when we were travelling with the kids - more space for less money. I don't mind making my own bed.

Final tip - not budget related but important... Limit yourself to a carry on bag and a daypack. It is so much easier to navigage without hauling half of home with you. Especially if you are travelling by train, plane, or any method other than a rental car.

This is our approach too, though in Europe you can often get a decent breakfast included at hotels. It’s then easy to whip up a good meal from local vendors to pack while day tripping, then one meal in a restaurant.

Shoulder season is of great help with costs generally. Some airlines like Turkish and SAS allow stop overs too. Long haul in coach sucks. Premium helps. I flew business for work overseas a lot but we just did a trip to Asia in premium and it wasn’t terrible. Make sure to build in a couple days for jet lag. West coast to Europe is brutal.

 

[imnontrad]

Look at train/bus travel in Europe rather than plane also. Especially with arrival time at the airport, it may take less time. Plus,I found out I got senior rate which cut the cost in half. Less than $30 from Madrid to Sarria is sweet.
Look at “slow travel” where you stay in an AirBnB for 2 weeks or more. You then have a kitchen to cook /cut costs.
I have had good luck just walking into a bakery or grocery store to get a meal rather than a restaurant too.

 

[HunterAdvisor]

We live in Mexico (Nayarit) and flew from CDMX to Barcelona and spent 7 weeks throughout Spain & Portugal. Used miles on Iberia Air, and booked primarily private rooms not whole houses on Airbnb and found we learned way more by staying with locals. We ate primarily from the markets (also vegetarian leaning to vegan). I think we spent about $10k, but it was 7 years ago. Now I use Home Exchange nearly exclusively, in Spain we at that time we had two exchanges, in the Alpujarra (Sierra mountains) and overlooking the Alhambra in Granada.

 

[brett]

Look at train/bus travel in Europe rather than plane also. Especially with arrival time at the airport, it may take less time. Plus,I found out I got senior rate which cut the cost in half. Less than $30 from Madrid to Sarria is sweet.
Look at “slow travel” where you stay in an AirBnB for 2 weeks or more. You then have a kitchen to cook /cut costs.
I have had good luck just walking into a bakery or grocery store to get a meal rather than a restaurant too.

This is our experience over many years of travel to Europe and Asia.. the last 12 years of extended independent travel.

What we see in Europe and Asia is this. If you stay at large US style hotel chains and insist on eating NA style food served in places with menus in four languages then you will spend a great deal more money than you would otherwise have by staying and eating in smaller, locally owned family establishments.

Our practice for dining in Europe is to go a few blocks away from the main drag. Avoid any listed in Rick Steves. If the menu is multilingual we walk. If, on entering, all we see or hear is english speaking tourists we exit. We had some fabulous dining experiences in Portugal this spring by doing exactly this.


The bigger issue is that you will miss out on some great local experiences and travel memories.

 

[HunterAdvisor]

I forgot to mention that we used Bla Bla car often to get around even between countries. I also brought clothing that I could
Leave behind when I was done with it as I don’t check a bag and that way I had space for goodies to bring back.

 

[dixonge]

We live in Mexico (Nayarit) and flew from CDMX to Barcelona and spent 7 weeks throughout Spain & Portugal. Used miles on Iberia Air, and booked primarily private rooms not whole houses on Airbnb and found we learned way more by staying with locals. We ate primarily from the markets (also vegetarian leaning to vegan). I think we spent about $10k, but it was 7 years ago. Now I use Home Exchange nearly exclusively, in Spain we at that time we had two exchanges, in the Alpujarra (Sierra mountains) and overlooking the Alhambra in Granada.

Sounds like a great plan. We don't have a home to exchange, but hoping we can do Spain/Portugal in a few years. Hopefully under $10k, but it is what it is...

 

[Teacher Terry]

Brett, you are right about the restaurants. The best meals we had in Italy no one spoke English and the menu was in Italian.

 

[Sunset]

...
Our practice for dining in Europe is to go a few blocks away from the main drag. Avoid any listed in Rick Steves. If the menu is multilingual we walk. If, on entering, all we see or hear is english speaking tourists we exit. We had some fabulous dining experiences in Portugal this spring by doing exactly this.

The bigger issue is that you will miss out on some great local experiences and travel memories.

We accidentally did this a few years ago in Barcelona, we ate breakfast at a restaurant where nothing was english. The menu had some pictures, so we just pointed.

By experimenting each day, we found some Empanadas we really liked.
Around the 8th or 9th day, the owner who could speak a little english, asked us if we had moved there

 

[dixonge]

As a vegan, this changes the restaurant situation somewhat. While there *are* plenty of local vegan opportunities, they still represent only 1 out of 50 restaurants here in Mexico. I would imagine that in Europe they do big business from tourists, thus would have menus in English as well as the local language. But I do like the idea of preferring more local venues.

When we visited Cabo the main vegan restaurant near the docks was *insanely* expensive for Mexico! Another nearby restaurant had the Impossible Burger for a mere $20, well over double US prices. So we walked to a restaurant a few blocks off the dock area and ordered off the Spanish menu and paid normal Mexico prices. We also found a tiny vegan cafe, also away from the tourist area. Delicious food, normal prices. Love supporting smaller venues, always have.

 

[brett]

This past June we sat down at an outdoor cafe near our Coimbra, Portugal hotel. Two down from the main pedestrian tourist drag. Menu on a board, no idea what it was. Seemed to be all locals so it fit the bill. No menus,,,just a board listing the days offers.

So this older man came (older....our age late 60's) and asked us what we wanted. He knew we were tourists, if only by how we dressed.

Top of the menu turned out to be pork cheeks. We nodded and pointed to each other indicating bring it on. How did we know? Well, he haltingly said pig, then pointed at his cheeks. We understood. Sold.

Then the wine, included. Tino or blanc. No list or options. Just 'good...from brother). We nodded and he brought it on. Lots of it...included in the menu fixe so to speak. It was same from salad through desert. What we were no certain of we rubbernecked to other tables. Pointed to them, he smiled and nodded. This gentleman was the essence of good hospitality. He made it so easy for us and made us feel like we belonged. His wife was in the back of indoor area doing the cooking.

Great service. And he was smart enought to have a no credit card symbol on the top of his memu board.

Found this place by accident. It was one of the best meals of the entire five weeks. And one of the most inexpensive.

We have had a many of thise. On a few occasions, mostly in Greece and Italy, we have been taken back to the steam table or into the kitchen to see whats what and make our choice!

You do not have to have a menu in your language or a server who speaks you language to have a great meal. Just take a chance and it will all work out....usually.

 

[dixonge]

You do not have to have a menu in your language or a server who speaks you language to have a great meal. Just take a chance and it will all work out....usually.

On one of my early restaurant visits in Mexico (before we were vegan) I ordered a fish plate. The server headed to the kitchen, stopped, turned around and wanted to make sure I understood that it was entero - whole fish. I said yes because who would order half a fish?

I misunderstood...

It was, indeed, a whole fish, minus the entrails. Bones, head, eyes, etc. were all there. My main issue was just all the extra work and care that is required to eat said fish, but it's still a funny story.

I look forward to ordering things off of French and Italian menus. They are romance languages, so our spanish should help a lot, but will still be interesting

 

[Chuckanut]

On one of my early restaurant visits in Mexico (before we were vegan) I ordered a fish plate. The server headed to the kitchen, stopped, turned around and wanted to make sure I understood that it was entero - whole fish. I said yes because who would order half a fish?

I misunderstood...

It was, indeed, a whole fish, minus the entrails. Bones, head, eyes, etc. were all there. My main issue was just all the extra work and care that is required to eat said fish, but it's still a funny story.

I look forward to ordering things off of French and Italian menus. They are romance languages, so our spanish should help a lot, but will still be interesting

Years ago my Italian grandmother told me she always wants to get the whole fish. That way she knows she is getting the fish she is paying for and not some cheap substitute. In her youth she often found that not all restaurant owners are 100% trustworthy when it come to sea food.

 

[brett]

We can vouch for that. Especially true on cruise lines.

More than once we have been served dover sole that most definitely was not dover sole. Same for a few other varieties of fish.

In some small family restaurants in Thailand we have to very specifically ask that our curry dishes NOT be 'western' style otherwise they leave out half the flavor.