Bitcoin Low

I see a number of parallels here to the dotcom mania of the late 90's. Pets.com anyone?

Hey now, let's not be overly cynical. Tons of folks got rich off of Pets.com.

The investment bank that underwrote the IPO. Very early investors that sold.

Sounds kinda like bitcoin... :D
 
This is what I glean from the above posts on bitcoin.

Someone you don't know made $10M = buy bitcoin
Yale, MIT and Harvard are smart = buy bitcoin
The government may collapse = buy bitcoin
The smart money and family money are in = buy bitcoin
Stocks are highly valued = buy bitcoin
Old people are behind the times/young folks are smart = buy bitcoin
Stocks and bonds are so yesterday = buy bitcoin
The USD may collapse = buy bitcoin

Maybe its just me, but this sounds a lot like a sales pitch. Bitcoin only has speculative value to current owners if new speculators buy it from them at a higher price. The greater fool theory. So, it has to be defended and pumped. Notice how rarely anyone talks about its use as currency. The whole premise is that bitcoin will be owned by everyone and you need to get in today. And, did I mention it's a limited supply?

You forgot:

Cures Cancer!
Reduces Blood Pressure!
Gives you more energy!
Helps you sleep better!
Reduces Cholesterol!
Improves performance in the bedroom!
Lose tummy fat!
Removes wrinkles and bags under eyes!
No more colds!
Better concentration!
[-]Reduces gullibility![/-]

-ERD50
 
And at least that sock puppet was cute.

Trying to sell you all something?

Oh gosh, in 37 years I’ve never sold anything to anyone other than capital markets law services to institutions and billionaires — and not here, not to any of you.

I’ll leave you alone on this topic now as others have noted that talking about it at ER.com is basically a waste of my time. You’ve obviously got this “blockchain thing” all figured out — especially those among you who can’t write a single line of code. (The retired engineer living in the Free State seems to have an open mind.)

As Mark Yusco tweeted this morning (“who’s that?” I hear you asking), Never ask an incumbent what he thinks about disruption.

Question to buggy maker: What do you think about automobiles?

Answer: I hear you can get killed in one of those things.

Question to trial lawyer: What do you think about arbitration?

Answer: I hear you can’t get justice in one of those things.

Question to random index fund user: What do you think about bitcoin?

Answer: I hear you will lose it all by buying one of those things.

Contra those of you who do not know me (that would be all of you) but are quite convinced I’m trying to sell you something (how insulting), please do not buy bitcoin. I quite agree that it’s not for you or your kind. It’s for a different class of investor altogether.

Adieu.
 
I have no views on crypto currency but do feel it shows a slight similarity with MLM. The thread looked pretty civil.

What’s the difference between a crypto currency and an SDR?
 
....

Question to random index fund user: What do you think about bitcoin?

Answer: I hear you will lose it all by buying one of those things.

...
Not that it deserves a reply, but...

If you ask this index fund user: What do you think about bitcoin?

Answer: I would not invest in it because I don't understand it. Which is my across the board outlook, I'm not 'picking on' bitcoin specifically.

And I don't personally see any compelling reason to try to learn enough about it to see if I want to invest in it at this time. But of course, I may change my mind if I see it become more mainstream.

If you think you can make money on it (if you believe in such a thing - I guess I'm not sure now - or do you just make more bitcoin?), fine, it's your money (or something?).

-ERD50
 
And at least that sock puppet was cute.

Trying to sell you all something?

...
Adieu.

It's really not all about you. You must admit the Pets.com sock puppet was a lot cuter than DJ Khaled and Floyd Mayweather (per my earlier post on this thread). But adieu to you too.
 
I guess he doesn't realize that most of us have seen this (bitcoin, pets.com, worldcomm, etc) before. It got a lot of hype, went up like crazy, and then died.


Most of us on this board are "retired" thus can't take big gambles on basically obtuse and hard to understand "stuff".


It will be interesting if bitcoin is even remembered 10 years from now.
 
The handful of thirty-somethings in my life are much more interested in (and investing a bit in) blockchain technology vs cryptocurrency itself. The young'uns have much longer horizons than I do. Here's an article on companies using blockchain (I think that's what it's about :)) https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow...-blockchain-without-buying-bitcoin/index.html


And that's why I'm more comfortable investing in tech mutual funds. Hopefully the managers can figure out better than I who is real and who is a scam artist.
 
And at least that sock puppet was cute.

Trying to sell you all something?

Oh gosh, in 37 years I’ve never sold anything to anyone other than capital markets law services to institutions and billionaires — and not here, not to any of you.

I’ll leave you alone on this topic now as others have noted that talking about it at ER.com is basically a waste of my time. You’ve obviously got this “blockchain thing” all figured out — especially those among you who can’t write a single line of code. (The retired engineer living in the Free State seems to have an open mind.)

As Mark Yusco tweeted this morning (“who’s that?” I hear you asking), Never ask an incumbent what he thinks about disruption.

Question to buggy maker: What do you think about automobiles?

Answer: I hear you can get killed in one of those things.

Question to trial lawyer: What do you think about arbitration?

Answer: I hear you can’t get justice in one of those things.

Question to random index fund user: What do you think about bitcoin?

Answer: I hear you will lose it all by buying one of those things.

Contra those of you who do not know me (that would be all of you) but are quite convinced I’m trying to sell you something (how insulting), please do not buy bitcoin. I quite agree that it’s not for you or your kind. It’s for a different class of investor altogether.

Adieu.




Still never said if you are going to come back in 10 years to say I told you so or where we can say the same....


Since it is near my birthday I will remember when...


But I am sure we will have more discussions over the years...
 
This does read like a lot of “talking points”, over and over. Maybe put the thread out of everyone’s misery?
 
This does read like a lot of “talking points”, over and over. Maybe put the thread out of everyone’s misery?

I view this thread (both information & opinions) as educational. I don't know much about bitcoin but maybe I'll learn something.
 
I view this thread (both information & opinions) as educational. I don't know much about bitcoin but maybe I'll learn something.

Agree. I have no desire to invest any of my monies in bitcoin or other alternative currency. But, I may also learn something, though I doubt that will change my mind as to investing in it.

But hey, to each his or her own.

I also have no desire to invest in real estate, but I know some on this board are strong proponents of it and have done very well.

Great thing about this forum - differing opinions and outlooks. Even though I may not agree with everything, hopefully I am coming away a bit more knowledgable.
 
No dog in this fight, but find it heavy on opinion and little facts. In addition to the two non-speculative uses of Bitcoin, you also had a big increase this year of hackers inserting code into millions of computers in order to harness their computing power to mine Bitcoin at your expense.

On a positive note, Ohio is the first state to accept Bitcoin for corporate tax payments and soon the populace will be able to do so as well. I think there are measures in other states, but not sure.
 
...

On a positive note, Ohio is the first state to accept Bitcoin for corporate tax payments and soon the populace will be able to do so as well. I think there are measures in other states, but not sure.

Why is that a positive note? What good comes to the residents of Ohio by accepting bitcoin rather than plain old USD?

Or did you just mean positive for bitcoin?

-ERD50
 
As an Ohio resident myself I think this was a stupid thing to do. It’s not legal tender so should not officially be recognized.
 
I wonder what exchange rate they will use? Unless you are paid in BTC and do your taxes in BTC and then OH pays for a new road in BTC, at some point that BTC has to be converted to USD. What if you do your taxes in the morning and owe 2 BTC and then by the time you file you owe 1.8 BTC and then when OH converts to USD they discover it has fallen 30%?

Just seems silly to me.
 
Against Bitcoin

An apology

I value the opinions and expertise of all members of this forum. I enjoy the debate aspects of our exchanges. Accordingly, if my comments about bitcoin, often with a fair amount of snark, have offended anyone, I apologize.

Against bitcoin

Bitcoin is a good launching pad to discuss speculation and whether speculation has a part in a prudent investor’s portfolio. My belief that bitcoin is not worthy of investment stems from my belief that it does not meet the definition of an investment activity. Ben Graham, in “The Intelligent Investor”, lays out the criteria for investment versus speculation. An investment should ensure the safety of principal and provide a reasonable return. Currently, crypto-currencies, and more specifically bitcoin, do not meet either of these requirements. They are at best speculation.

Speculation versus investment

While we cover virtually any topic on this forum, our primary focus is all things related to FIRE. We routinely provide advice on the most successful path to FIRE. This path is well known by many of our members and guests; LBYM, generate funds to invest, invest in low cost stock and bond index funds and (if desired) income producing real estate. Do this over a 20, 30 or 40 year period and you will likely be able to FIRE. All three of the investments listed meet Graham’s definition of investment activities. Variations of this strategy worked hundreds of years ago, it works today and it will likely serve you well in the future. While money can be made with speculation, we do not recommend it as a way to FIRE. Speculation does not ensure safety of principal or a reasonable return. Speculation is more closely related to gambling. While it is possible to become wealthy by purchasing lottery tickets or going to a casino, neither would be considered investments or a reasonable path to FIRE. Nor can there by a reasonable expectation that others can replicate successful results.

Investing pitfalls

While the path to FIRE, on paper, is fairly straight forward and easy to understand, the implementation and emotional aspects can derail your plans. We routinely identify activities that can be detrimental to FIRE. These include, failing to save enough, withdrawing too much in retirement, excessive investment fees, and failing to stay the course during market dips. Many of us also know the avoidance of manias and scams is an integral part of successful investing. And, we know they come along from time to time. But, here is the critical part. You don’t have to be right or wrong about the future of crypto-currency or any other speculative activity. You just need to know enough to identify it for what it is, speculation, and stay away. If it ends up being a valuable industry, it will make its way into your index funds and you will profit. Speculation should not be a part of the prudent investor’s FIRE plans.
 
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Nice write-up. As you say, there are a lot of consensus viewpoints on this board and also some differences of option. There are people who would never have precious metals as a part of their portfolio because it doesn't meet the requirements of an investment. Others say it's use is as insurance, a defensive play with a small percentage. The latter would probably be more open to Bitcoin if they thought it would persist and hold value. But even those, me included, don't like the volatility, so haven't participated.
 
I wonder what exchange rate they will use? Unless you are paid in BTC and do your taxes in BTC and then OH pays for a new road in BTC, at some point that BTC has to be converted to USD. What if you do your taxes in the morning and owe 2 BTC and then by the time you file you owe 1.8 BTC and then when OH converts to USD they discover it has fallen 30%?

Just seems silly to me.


Just me guessing, but I bet they have made a deal with some company to convert instantly to the exact tax due in US$.... kinda like if you use your CC you have to pay a fee... and at least here you are going thru a third party for the payment...


I would then assume that the company doing this is not converting at a favorable rate to the person who owes the tax.. and also doing the conversion at the time you are paying for it online.... like any FX dealer would do...
 
Interesting take on the future of Bitcoin:

Just one year has passed since bitcoin enthusiasts forecasted that the cryptocurrency would hit a price of $1 million.

But that was then. With the price of bitcoin having fallen almost 80% from its peak, and now trading well-below the support level of $6,000, everyone is wondering where it goes from here.

The answer is, a swift and painful drop to zero.

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless
 
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