Teacher Terry
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2014
- Messages
- 7,185
Joe, I am so sorry about your friend.
He was laid to rest last weekend. In a way, it may have been a blessing, but we'll never know. The normal course of his disease is years (of suffering), but COVID seemed to make it a matter of months.
I'm so sad about this, he was one of the best late-life friends I've ever made.
All I know is this disease sucks and there's way too much we don't know about it.
Thanks all. It was a shock. He was in one of my volunteer groups. We did a lot of manual labor, and he was not shy in picking heavy stuff up and schlepping it around. He was in shape. More importantly, he kept such infectious good humor and always put us all in a great mood.
It just turns out he had the start of a condition which covid brutally exposed.
Do you supplement with vitamin D? I saw a paper out of Germany that was pretty convincing that indicated low D was a predictor of worse symptoms.Yup, and I'm fully recovered. Really nothing notable after 10 or 11 days of a scratchy throat. At this point I figure I got boosted in August so will wait a while to get my next booster.
A friend of mine had a Pfizer breakthrough case in August, which was 5 months past his second shot.
He never really recovered.
His strength never returned. He thought he had long COVID. After a long series of tests, he was diagnosed with a well known neuro-muscular disease. It is like COVID kicked it into gear. We know COVID affects nerves. It seemed like a heat seeking missile in his case.
He was laid to rest last weekend. In a way, it may have been a blessing, but we'll never know. The normal course of his disease is years (of suffering), but COVID seemed to make it a matter of months.
I'm so sad about this, he was one of the best late-life friends I've ever made.
All I know is this disease sucks and there's way too much we don't know about it.
I’m for the vaccine. Got my two doses of Moderna back in January and February. Got my Moderna booster 3 weeks ago.
But, in terms of getting us back to normal, is it time to acknowledge the vaccines failure? If 100% of folks were vaccinated, would Covid still be rampant? I’m starting to think maybe yes.
The vaccine does seem to offer some protection against severe outcomes, although no guarantees on that. But limited protection on actually getting Covid and limited protection on spreading it once infected. Certainly not the 95% protection originally thought. And severe outcomes do occur.
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The powers that be seem obsessed exclusively on getting everyone the vaccine. Is it time to rethink, and invest in other strategies? Other vaccines? Other therapeutics? Other I don’t know what?
Good, thoughtful questions and I'm also vaccinated, including the booster. When I e-mailed the family to tell them of DS' my granddaughter's cases, my sister, who's a retired OB-Gyn, said it may get to the point where we ALL get it but have less severe cases (for the most part) due to the vaccine. DS was fully vaccinated, granddaughter is only 7 and was not.
Maybe we're back to the early exhortations to "flatten the curve" and developing herd immunity? I know that a few unlucky people have had recurrences but in many countries in Europe, having recovered from COVID is as valid as being vaccinated for entering public venues, etc. where ordinarily a vaccination is required.
The original 95% was against illness, not against any infection at all. That's how most vaccines work, though most are not scrutinized by the population like this one.But, in terms of getting us back to normal, is it time to acknowledge the vaccines failure? If 100% of folks were vaccinated, would Covid still be rampant? I’m starting to think maybe yes.
The vaccine does seem to offer some protection against severe outcomes, although no guarantees on that. But limited protection on actually getting Covid and limited protection on spreading it once infected. Certainly not the 95% protection originally thought. And severe outcomes do occur.
The powers that be seem obsessed exclusively on getting everyone the vaccine. Is it time to rethink, and invest in other strategies? Other vaccines? Other therapeutics? Other I don’t know what?
The vaccines don’t seem to be the answer. Or maybe a solution that allows returning to normal is a fiction.
The original 95% was against illness, not against any infection at all. That's how most vaccines work, though most are not scrutinized by the population like this one.
If 100% of the world was vaccinated, of course Covid would still be a thing, but it would be a mild cold-like infection for far FAR more folks than it is currently. A non-hospitalized event. Severe outcomes are dramatically reduced, as are deaths.
That doesn't spell failure to me at all. It spells pretty damn good, and far more than any of us were expecting last summer.
I don't disagree with your analysis. I think the issue is that we were "sold" more on the efficacy of the vaccine. SOME vaccines are virtually a guarantee against infection. I'm guessing most of us assumed that - and we were wrong. YMMV
I guess but at lot of those vaccines are implemented against infections that have virtually been eradicated.
Since we knew from the get go that Covid is viral I always thought it would be more like a flu shot. One can argue that Covid vaccine has stood up better then flu shots as of now.
Our infection numbers are growing as more people are gathering indoors
I'm not certain I understand your point. Small pox (for instance) was virtually eradicated - by the vaccine. That would be the "ultimate" good vaccine - one that eventually eliminates the pathogen. It's clear we having nothing like that against Covid 19 (or "flu" for that matter.) Still, what we have IS better than nothing, though natural heard immunity my be "better" but cost more lives in the short run. Such things are difficult to know or especially prove.
We've learned a lot about infectious diseases in the past 100+ years. One thing we've learned is how much more there is to know. YMMV
Smallpox eradication
took from 1898 until 1979 to be eradicated globally. 80 years wow.
I guess this proves as humans we don't have as much patience as we used to.
The vaccine we have for Covid is a LOT better then nothing. But as you say the more we know the better we can fight.
Fully vaccinated people are much less likely to die with Covid-19 than those who aren't, or have had only one dose, figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show.
Out of more than 51,000 Covid deaths in England between January and July 2021, only 256 occurred after two doses.
They were mostly people at very high risk from illness from Covid-19.
Let's be fair. Not all viruses are the same. Smallpox and COVID are very different, just as a box truck and a sports car are different vehicles.
Back to the OP topic: I'm all for vaccine. I just got my booster. But I would like to see more frank talk from the authorities about limitations and expectations of efficacy as we have learned so much over the last 18 months or so. Breakthroughs are depressing, yet the standard line seems to be "just ignore them." Or, "They tend to be mild". Uh... some of us have seen more than mild breakthroughs and frankly it is very concerning.